RBYCC

Stock M103 internals with standard 9.2:1CR will easily handle .7bar boost and more then double the rwp.
It's the best 124 engine to boost.
Simplistic, no variable cam timimg and few electronics.

"Speed costs money....how fast do you want to go? "

Shoomakan

I agree. How much does the frame handle, though? Can it handle 300whp? 350whp? Does it have well known structural weaknesses that can be addressed? If not, I don't think it's safe to take it past a certain limit.

pifcat2

It was a simple drivetrain exchange. It was bought from RT by the previous owner of my sedan that was hit from behind.

RBYCC

It depends on the condition of the chassis.
A 124 chassis with no major rust or metal fatigue will handle 350WHP.
It's not a body on chassis but more a floor pan with front and rear sub frames.

WDB124066

How much power do you want from a M103.

Start at 4:07 and you can see what can be done..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWkkBHJay6w


Do you think that might be enough for yourself there Brother.........

chlippo

this is one of roman's tuned cars. those cars are heavily modified and run megasquirt. this is another level of tuning

WDB124066

Well there you go. Get yourself one of them would be my advice.

the_widebody

while your there, can you get me the lotto numbers for next week and i've ran out of chickens teeth, can you quickly find me some more... lol

if you want to stay with a mercedes power train, you can copy the amg 103 builds, shrik cams did the 103 amg parts back in the day, contact them, maybe they can replicate, or you could get a cam grinder to take a bit off the back of the lobe and re profile a std cam.

you can make the solid lifters by installing the tappets from the 102 engine.

get a good head shop to port the head and fit bigger valves.

use the 3.2 crank, or a 350 td 140 s class crank to get 3.4, or with a rebore 3.6

easiest thing to do would be turbo the engine you have, stay below 8 psi, and there will be very few issues to deal with.

a guy on benzworld has fitted the 5.5 compressor engine into a sl 500, one of those in a 124 would be awsome...

Ameen

Not to go off of topic here, but the point of discussion is not what will give me the most or best power, but which is most doable and how.

I really would like wiring diagrams or write-ups on installing m104s into m103 cars.

WDB124066

Most doable; twin turbo an M103 I would have thought.......

joef

There is a write up in "The Mercedes Bible" that has a list of parts one used to convert a m103 wagon to c36 drivetrain. Get a copy of it, or if you have a little patients I'll see if I can find my copy and scan it.

RBYCC

Dude...do your own research...start with basics.
The most doable is rebuilding your M103.
If you don't know the basics and differences in engine management then you may want to consider if you have the capability to perform a transplant.
Just get the factory engine bay wiring diagram...it will tell you all that you need to know to make the swap.

Ameen

If you actually read my thread you would realize that i am fully and well capable of doing an engine swap and also that i do not want to simply rebuild the engine. Im not coming on here to get into a pissing contest. I thought the whole point of forums was to get assistance and see if anyone else has done the M104 swap to save me some headache and time before i actually get my hands dirty.

If anyone actually wants to help me out please chime in with some wiring tips.. otherwise ill just do it myself..

Quicksilver500

"Do-able" is relative. You are wanting to go from a CIS car to a HFM car. This is no easy task, harness, computers, as well as whatever chassis computers you might need.

Turbo is pretty easy for that car but don't expect to make tons of power with CIS, its basically mechanical fuel injection. The problem with turbo is it drastically changes your volumetric efficiency so it hard to tune that mechanical for that I hear.

However, they did make 24 valve CIS M104 engines for the coupes and SL's so you could swap one of those in, maybe bore it, redo the head and pick up some HP. They also rev to like 7500 or something silly.

The problem is people want cheap mods and rag on forum members when we can't tell them how to mod what was a 65k car new, cheaply. I am planning to build a 6.- M119 and its going to cost an arm and a leg, but who cares, its fun as hell and its only money.

But no, I have never heard of a M104 HFM into a CIS car.

-Mike

Shoomakan

Ameen, we are trying to help.

What I was saying was, if you're going to convert to EFI, just get the C36 engine as the work will be the same since you're starting off with the M103. It will be more expensive, but you are getting over 65 horses and pound/feet out of it.

No need to get uppity.

I also don't know firsthand if anyone's swapped an 3.0/3.2 M104 into place of an M103. C36 has been done. Check peachparts, they're more performance oriented down there. The Performance Paddock.

RBYCC

I read your thread and it's obvious that you only want to hear what you want to hear, even if you don't know the answer.
If you did you would listen...

You got an answer, the only answer which is to compare the two engine bay wiring diagrams.
There is no one that is going to delineate all the differences in inputs between CIS-E and HFM.
It's all documented by the factory as stated.

No more input from me to one who already knows everything but knows nothing..
I'll share knowledge with those who listen, others can wallow in their ignorance.
I'll let you get back to your sandbox

Ameen

Thanks

190E 16V

You might want to ask "jason3977" on this forum, about his Toyota engine swap.
He seems to be into ambitious MB engine swaps.
You can ask him specific questions.

I think he got a long way on this project though, and recently abandoned it.

Good luck.

RHW

Amazing how often this thread replays, with new names.

RBYCC

The "search" is your friend

DW124

The AMG m103 was a 3.2 but I doubt you can find one anytime soon

Shoomakan

Why not get another M103 and MegaSquirt it? It'll be up to M104 power levels, and you can turbo later and not worry about CIS. That's 400bhp right there, easy.

ptoro01

Could you explain your Megasquirt on an M103 idea? This could lead to a port and polish with bigger valves concept.

Do you think CIS is restrictive to that level?

Shoomakan

What do you mean, CIS being restrictive? With MegaSquirt, you'll convert the car to EFI. According to some, it'll gain around 15 horsepower from that alone with a good map. No more CIS.

I'm not very well versed with the CIS system, but RBYCC definitely is. The hassle with MegaSquirt comes in 2 steps: buying a fuel rail, injectors, and wiring it, and then tuning the actual car. If you don't know how to tune it yourself, it'll cost you to hire someone to do it for you on a dyno. Nothing backbreaking, but it'll cost.

After pondering the issue for literally 6 months, that's the route I've decided to take. I retain my engine, give it a little power hike, and start saving up for a proper turbo kit. There's no need to rush. :P

RBYCC

Put things in perspective.
If you're going to do a swap then it's foolish not to take the donor engine apart to check condition.
If you're taking it apart you might as well rebuild it.

Just MS'ing a weak engine will give you poor results.

What's going to make more power a freshly built M103 or an M104 from a breaker yard that you don't have a clue about?

I would build the M103 blueprint and balance to factory spec, cc the heads, multi angle valve job, ( you don't need bigger valves the stock flows enough )new springs etc. clean and match the ports.
You might even consider raising compression and getting a longer duration cam ground.
The AMG 3.2 M103 like Widebody has makes more power then a M104 and has a flatter torque curve.

You're not going to achieve anything on the cheap...look at $3K to $8K+ depending on if you can do the machine work and assembly or if you have to pay for the labor