Ameen

Seems like my M103 is on its last leg. I was considering 3 engine swaps:




2JZGTE- This would be awesome. I have a lot of experience with this engine. Super reliable, amazing power, and i believe they make bolt in kits to fit W124. All i would need to do is make a custom driveshaft and a little bit of wiring and it would be done. Ive swapped 2JZs into several cars so it would be right up my alley. Cost would be around $4500-5500.





C36 M104- I was considering this engine because it SEEMS as if it would be the easiest way to do. Direct bolt in, minimal wiring, and i would be able to retain A/C and other features. I really cant find too much information on how to go about the installation or wiring though. I am no too experienced with MB wiring or how their stuff works so any help would be appreciated. I found a C36 engine set with 70K on it for $1900. Is that a good deal? What else would be necessary to make it work? I would like to retain my stock transmission to keep costs down.




5.0 M119- This would rock. Keeping it MB, V8, raw power. I would love to do this, but i want to keep welding and fab down as much as necessary because i do not want to do any welding. Ive seen the write ups that people have done as far as Putting the M119 into their coupes and it requires swapping out the prefirewalls. But i havent found any HARDCORE information on whether or not it really is that difficult or not. How bad is wiring? Could it essentially be plug and play since its from the same gen of car? Would an S500 engine work? If so, i can get a low mileage one for $1100.

I would jump on the 2JZ first, but im really trying to keep costs around 3K...

Any ideas from people with actual experience/knowledge?

190E 16V

I can't give you hardcore info on the 119 swap, but I can tell you that you will liky need the 400/500E peripherals such as starter and power steering pump etc. as the space is very tight and the SL and 140 units are too large.

Also, there were 3 different timing covers, each needing different brackets and belt tensioner types for mounting pulleys and peripherals.

Saijin_Naib

Well, the C36 won't be a direct swap because you have the m103. If you had the later M104 with HFM, yes, it would be. You'll need to change the fuel system and electronics, but it is doable.

For the m119, I believe you need the front clip from a 400e or 500e to support the extra weight properly.

ronmiller609

Not sure if a C36 would work because it is based on M104 but would get you 275HP. Add nitrous and you are in m119 500 horsepower range.

M119 is a lot of work. There are a few threads out there from guys who have done it. Mods to frame, transmission tunnel and a boatload of electronics are two things that come to mind that will need.

JASON3977 put a Toyota motor in. There is a thread on this.

Good Luck!

Shoomakan

I'm in the exact same situation myself.

The 3.6 swap on the 3.0 M104 doesn't work, by the way. Conrods are too long, you'll need the head as well. If you've done that, might as well swap the whole thing in.

2JZ is a great idea, the problem I had though is it's my daily driver and I can't park it that long.

The m119 is somewhat of the same problem. More importantly, I'll lose my manual transmission. And it's an expensive engine to maintain, and has near zero modding abilities.

Another option to consider if you want to leave the MB family of engines is a smallblock Ford or Chevy V8. The 5.0 EFI engine on the Mustang (88-93) is a great engine, light, moddable, and reliable with probably the most aftermarket support of any engine ever made. Comes with a cheap and robust 5 speed, but it won't handle 400 ft/lbs of torque, so keep that in mind. This engine is also VERY cheap and VERY available. Chevy's LS1 is also an extremely good engine, with the same positives except for an expensive manual transmission. T56's are expensive.

Personally, I'd throw in another 3.0 block and turbocharge your engine. That way, you retain the factory install and can easily make over 300 horsepower.

Many more on this forum are far more experienced than myself and will offer you other ideas.

I'll be paying lots of attention to this since BARELY ANYONE ANSWERED MY THREAD, you lazy.... :P

Cheers, Shooma

Ameen

Yup, this is my daily driver as well. So im wanting no more than a 1-2 week down time. Im pretty sure if i collected ALL the parts for whichever way i decide to go beforehand that i could complete that.


What is the downside of me having the M103 to swap in the C36 motor? I was under the assumption i had to change the wiring harness and ECU regardless.. i would be purchasing a Motor, wiring harness and ECU.. so what else is necessary?

Im beginning to think the M119 is out of the question.. and there is NO WAY IN HELL i am going to put a mustang motor in my car..

Shoomakan

Jay knows more about this than I do, but I think you need the electric drive by wire throttle system, along with other electronic devices. Not just the motor and wiring harness and ECU.

I think your best option is the entire C36 swap, but I think it'll be costly. A 2JZ would be AWESOME, but I'd bet you money that it will NOT be straightforward, and it will take much longer than you think it would. I've done swaps before and speak from experience. Swapped a Ford 5.0 with tranny into an S13, a Subaru WRX engine in an old Beetle 1303S, and helped friends with countless BMW swaps.

Personally, I'd just get another block, buy some of the turbo components over some time and put it all together later. It's the cleanest option, which will also yield good numbers. A 2JZ can handle 600 horsepower easily, yes, but the Mercedes driveline can NOT. So it's kinda moot having an engine that powerful on a car that will never handle it.

What do you think?

pifcat2

For $3k you can also rebuild your engine with perf pistons, hot cam, bigger valves, and headwork. Any used engine has some unknowns.

I may go the 500E conversion for my coupe if I can get a good package price since I already bought the fenders and bumper. I'll have a welder friend do the firewall and cross member swap. I'd sell the 3.0L -24V & EZL to help fund it. Wiring in conversions is probably the most time consuming.

chlippo

turbocharging aint easy at all, and it will take time to iron all the little bugs you might get and it will require some fabrications.

if you can get hold of a 36 amg donor front end, im pretty sure you will be more than fine.

Ameen

Pifcat2- did you do the 3.6 swap into your 300te yourself? If so, what all did it entail?

geosss

i have my 300ce, and that was the reason i got my 500e , to swap the engine, what i found out is that it is not that easy to be done, first of all the wireing has to be swapped, plus you wont be able to do it just with the engine you need preaty much the entire car so you can get what ever you need from it, looke around for couple of mercedes specialist services, and the lowest cost i got for swaping was around 10k, labour only, and the expensivest was 20k so i don't think you wana go near that, i've just decided to restore the 500e and just drive it.

geosss

as pifcat said best way to do is just rebuilt your engine, is gona be like new, if you'll get a used engine, never know what you'll get into, + if you modify the wireing you never know wht problems you might get.

Shoomakan

I looked online and couldn't find ANYONE that sold off the shelf pistons and cams for our engines.

I did find a few companies that would custom make some pistons and cams for my M104, but those are mighty expensive.

Saijin_Naib

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=284473&page=6

Ameen

Ill consider rebuilding the engine, however i dont think i can justify spending 3K and be left with the samething i already have.

Any info on M103 to M104 swap? Any info on M103 to C36 wiring???

WDB124066

Why don't you twin turbo a good replacement M103? Or, get an AMG version of the M103, 3.4; or indeed a Braubus upgrade package to the M103. All very good options and simple to do.

There are many ways to get good power from a M103 AND still keep your AC!!

If you want extra valves then get a 24 valve head version and mod that............. if that's possible??

Shoomakan

If you're going to install an M104, might as well swap in the C36. Almost the same amount of work involved, there.

Shoomakan

Oh, and Sai, I read the thread but couldn't figure out what you were pointing me to. Enlighten me!

Ameen

where and how do i get an AMG M103??

What are the differences?

Seems to me that if im going to have the motor out, might as well put something better back in. 24V is better than 18V.

Ameen

Ok after some searching, i found that the AMG M103 is super rare..

I really want to know what the big deal is in putting in an M104??

semis1

Check here:

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...otor-swap.html


Probably the simplest of the M104 engines that can be installed in a car that came with the M103, would be the M104.980 which came in the 91-93 300CE. I think I have the years right.
The reason for this is that the M104.98 engine uses a combination of the M103 parts and M104 to a certain degree. It uses the CIS fuel injection setup which would be easier to implement on a M103 car, but has 24 valves and 217HP+/-.
The newer M104 engines have different fuel injection system, etc.
So that would be an option, but if my M104.980 goes for the long nap, I am thinking a 2JZ TT would be perfect. Can be found for about $2,500 on ebay including auto trans (manual is more, around $3-3,500) the mods to make it work would make for a nice project, and AC if really needed can be made to work with aftermarket parts. I never use mine in any of my cars even where I live. I am thinking about $500-1000 worth of extra parts would make this work, and with some more $, a good amount of HP can be achieved. Plus, newer motor, newer technology and fairly bulletproof.
A M104 (newer one) would be about the same work and with the proper transmission, maybe even more money, a C36 with proper trans. even more, and a V8 with proper transmission again expensive, plus the weight and the extra strengthening to to the frame would make it just not that good of an option.
I would say, option #1!!!

Saijin_Naib

m104.980 started in the US on the 90 Coupe. I'm rocking one currently

Shook, that thread has a many pages of info regarding different stroke/bore and other measurements for the m103 and m104 engines, and also the fact that people have found that you can use Honda pistons & con-rods in these engines (I believe honda b26 engine parts). There is a huge aftermarket supply of high-quality forged components for those engines that can be transplanted into the m103/m104 if you're looking for ups.

chlippo

if you are not making over 300 or even 320 bhp you dont need pistons or conrods or whatever. with right fueling M103/M104 has been doing in the 300 bhp area without internals upgrade...so whats the point of upgrading it if you wont need it?
the weak point is the headgasket, that you can solve with a copper material headgasket replacement.

Saijin_Naib

If you're going to build the m103/m104 to 3.6l and you're starting from the 3.0l, you need the crank from a 350sd/sdl and the 2.8l m104 con-rods (shorter than the 3.0 ones). The forged internals from the b26 are just a cheaper option than finding mercedes parts.

Shoomakan

Sai, H22A is the engine, not B26.

Those rods seem to be idea for turbocharging, they'll drop your compression down and also handle more power. I'm fairly intrigued. Thanks a whole bundle for pointing that out!

Still reading.