Multiple questions about 1993 E500
05-31-2011, 04:41 AM
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Multiple questions about 1993 E500
Hi all,
I recently bought a 1993 E500 in pristine order. Seems the kind Swiss lady drove it carefully, always had it indoors and wore silk gloves when driving. This, unfortunately, also means the engine isn't as powerful as expected.
Yesterday I did a test drive on the German Autobahn and I noticed a few things.
First of all, when driving 140km/h or so, the temp gauge tells me the coolant water is 100° C. I find that quite high (despite the 30*° outside temp and much sun). When I switched on the A/C, it rose to above 100°. I know that at this point both the mechanical fan *and* the two electrical fans are at max speed, yet the temp gauge doesn't go down.
When I tried to reach its max speed, I didn't get past 235km/h, with the temp gauge reaching a 110°! (Probably related, since I read the engine timing gets changed at high temps).
Another annoying problem that I have is that when the engine is only the slightest bit warm, both the ABS and ASD lights pop on. Recycling the engine a few times often solves this. I read somewhere that this is due to faulty wiring, but my kind MB dealership tells me it'll cost a few thousand to replace.
Last but not least, my gearbox seems wonky. When flooring it (with kickdown) it sometimes changes down at the red line, then up again, then down again, making the entire car wobble quite badly.
So to sum up:
- Is it normal for the engine to stay at 100°C even while cruising?
- Is it normal I see the temp rising to 110°C?
- Any idea about that gearbox issue?
- Any pointers about the ABS+ASD thingie?
I'm sorry for shooting out all these questions at once. I'm just insanely proud of the car and want it in tip-top condition
Thanks for any help!
I recently bought a 1993 E500 in pristine order. Seems the kind Swiss lady drove it carefully, always had it indoors and wore silk gloves when driving. This, unfortunately, also means the engine isn't as powerful as expected.
Yesterday I did a test drive on the German Autobahn and I noticed a few things.
First of all, when driving 140km/h or so, the temp gauge tells me the coolant water is 100° C. I find that quite high (despite the 30*° outside temp and much sun). When I switched on the A/C, it rose to above 100°. I know that at this point both the mechanical fan *and* the two electrical fans are at max speed, yet the temp gauge doesn't go down.
When I tried to reach its max speed, I didn't get past 235km/h, with the temp gauge reaching a 110°! (Probably related, since I read the engine timing gets changed at high temps).
Another annoying problem that I have is that when the engine is only the slightest bit warm, both the ABS and ASD lights pop on. Recycling the engine a few times often solves this. I read somewhere that this is due to faulty wiring, but my kind MB dealership tells me it'll cost a few thousand to replace.
Last but not least, my gearbox seems wonky. When flooring it (with kickdown) it sometimes changes down at the red line, then up again, then down again, making the entire car wobble quite badly.
So to sum up:
- Is it normal for the engine to stay at 100°C even while cruising?
- Is it normal I see the temp rising to 110°C?
- Any idea about that gearbox issue?
- Any pointers about the ABS+ASD thingie?
I'm sorry for shooting out all these questions at once. I'm just insanely proud of the car and want it in tip-top condition
Thanks for any help!
05-31-2011, 06:36 AM
#2
Super Member
I'm no expert at all with 500's, but I imagine 100 degrees is way too hot, especially if you're cruising on the highway. 110 degrees is even more so. A quick google search showed that the M119 when warm operates at around 85 degrees.
It should only get cooler on the highway, unless you're flooring it.
For the ABS and ASD and gearbox, I have no idea.
It should only get cooler on the highway, unless you're flooring it.
For the ABS and ASD and gearbox, I have no idea.
05-31-2011, 06:40 AM
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I was afraid of that. It normally sticks nicely to 85, unless it's hot and the aircon is on. Scariest thing is that the temp was still climbing when I was flooring it.
05-31-2011, 08:30 AM
#4
Hi all,
I recently bought a 1993 E500 in pristine order. Seems the kind Swiss lady drove it carefully, always had it indoors and wore silk gloves when driving. This, unfortunately, also means the engine isn't as powerful as expected.
Yesterday I did a test drive on the German Autobahn and I noticed a few things.
First of all, when driving 140km/h or so, the temp gauge tells me the coolant water is 100° C. I find that quite high (despite the 30*° outside temp and much sun). When I switched on the A/C, it rose to above 100°. I know that at this point both the mechanical fan *and* the two electrical fans are at max speed, yet the temp gauge doesn't go down.
When I tried to reach its max speed, I didn't get past 235km/h, with the temp gauge reaching a 110°! (Probably related, since I read the engine timing gets changed at high temps).
Another annoying problem that I have is that when the engine is only the slightest bit warm, both the ABS and ASD lights pop on. Recycling the engine a few times often solves this. I read somewhere that this is due to faulty wiring, but my kind MB dealership tells me it'll cost a few thousand € to replace.
Last but not least, my gearbox seems wonky. When flooring it (with kickdown) it sometimes changes down at the red line, then up again, then down again, making the entire car wobble quite badly.
So to sum up:
- Is it normal for the engine to stay at 100°C even while cruising?
- Is it normal I see the temp rising to 110°C?
- Any idea about that gearbox issue?
- Any pointers about the ABS+ASD thingie?
I'm sorry for shooting out all these questions at once. I'm just insanely proud of the car and want it in tip-top condition
Thanks for any help!
I recently bought a 1993 E500 in pristine order. Seems the kind Swiss lady drove it carefully, always had it indoors and wore silk gloves when driving. This, unfortunately, also means the engine isn't as powerful as expected.
Yesterday I did a test drive on the German Autobahn and I noticed a few things.
First of all, when driving 140km/h or so, the temp gauge tells me the coolant water is 100° C. I find that quite high (despite the 30*° outside temp and much sun). When I switched on the A/C, it rose to above 100°. I know that at this point both the mechanical fan *and* the two electrical fans are at max speed, yet the temp gauge doesn't go down.
When I tried to reach its max speed, I didn't get past 235km/h, with the temp gauge reaching a 110°! (Probably related, since I read the engine timing gets changed at high temps).
Another annoying problem that I have is that when the engine is only the slightest bit warm, both the ABS and ASD lights pop on. Recycling the engine a few times often solves this. I read somewhere that this is due to faulty wiring, but my kind MB dealership tells me it'll cost a few thousand € to replace.
Last but not least, my gearbox seems wonky. When flooring it (with kickdown) it sometimes changes down at the red line, then up again, then down again, making the entire car wobble quite badly.
So to sum up:
- Is it normal for the engine to stay at 100°C even while cruising?
- Is it normal I see the temp rising to 110°C?
- Any idea about that gearbox issue?
- Any pointers about the ABS+ASD thingie?
I'm sorry for shooting out all these questions at once. I'm just insanely proud of the car and want it in tip-top condition
Thanks for any help!
Anyway, in regard to your high temp this would scare me a little, I have never seen my car go above 88 I believe even when it was 92 degrees out here yesterday in stop and go. I know MB's tend to run hotter than most especially on a 8 cyl like our M119. My car did overheat not too long ago, got new water pump and the previous owner was so **** he also did a new head gasket job to be safe, paid big bucks! It seems this is where you could be heading w/ regard to the hot temps, do not push it or at least get it checked out. This could leave you stranded.
The next issue, from 92-95 the insulation on the engine harness and throttle actuator was biodegradable. This could def be causing the lights you are getting especially if its intermittent! Best way is to see if there is wire exposed on the engine harness where it connects to modules or by cutting into it a bit a little. The actuator is a little buried so it harder to get to. I would really recommend getting some codes pulled for those lights! New harness could be had for $580-650 in US, so not too bad. Actuator cost more unless you buy used and my car got a replacement 6k miles ago for $1,300, my car had 54,000 miles then.
Last ?, this could be so many things... Do not start worrying that it could be the trans as they are rock solid w/ the common maintenance. How does it shift in the low rpm range? Is it clunking at all? How many miles are on the car? Once again a bad harness can do weird things like this.
Well hope I have helped and once again congrats on your purchase. Every penny you invest in this car is well worth it but from my experience to date the car can be demanding.
If you ask for my two cents, it would be too good to be true if it did not, so please maintain.I am jealous you get to test on the Autobahn, your blessed.
Das German!!
Last edited by RPB; 05-31-2011 at 08:55 AM.
05-31-2011, 08:53 AM
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RPB, thank you for your response. You can be certain that I'll take good care of it, no matter the costs. It'll stay 100% original as well.
The gearbox is pretty smooth normally. Sometimes when switching up it makes a "boinc" sound, but nothing too disturbing, it's not like the car shakes or something. I'm at 149910km at the moment, so around 93693 miles.
Do you have any more info about the harness? Where do I need to look, exactly, possible with pictures? I'm still learning so much about this car!
I do know that the previous owner changed the radiator a while back. Too bad that shop went down, so I can't ask him why... Maybe the cooling system is clogged?
Because I already noticed the insane heat, I did follow 2Phast's part about " Engine Cooling Modification". Oddly enough, WITH the resistor, the fans don't come on until 100 deg C, go to the fastest mode, and don't go off until 85deg again. Maybe that sensor is just broken?
Oh, and about the Autobahn, driving at 200km/h is smooth as silk. Seeing confused people in their new E-Class getting overtaken by me in my 'old' car is priceless
The gearbox is pretty smooth normally. Sometimes when switching up it makes a "boinc" sound, but nothing too disturbing, it's not like the car shakes or something. I'm at 149910km at the moment, so around 93693 miles.
Do you have any more info about the harness? Where do I need to look, exactly, possible with pictures? I'm still learning so much about this car!
I do know that the previous owner changed the radiator a while back. Too bad that shop went down, so I can't ask him why... Maybe the cooling system is clogged?
Because I already noticed the insane heat, I did follow 2Phast's part about " Engine Cooling Modification". Oddly enough, WITH the resistor, the fans don't come on until 100 deg C, go to the fastest mode, and don't go off until 85deg again. Maybe that sensor is just broken?
Oh, and about the Autobahn, driving at 200km/h is smooth as silk. Seeing confused people in their new E-Class getting overtaken by me in my 'old' car is priceless
05-31-2011, 10:11 AM
#6
RPB, thank you for your response. You can be certain that I'll take good care of it, no matter the costs. It'll stay 100% original as well.
The gearbox is pretty smooth normally. Sometimes when switching up it makes a "boinc" sound, but nothing too disturbing, it's not like the car shakes or something. I'm at 149910km at the moment, so around 93693 miles.
Do you have any more info about the harness? Where do I need to look, exactly, possible with pictures? I'm still learning so much about this car!
I do know that the previous owner changed the radiator a while back. Too bad that shop went down, so I can't ask him why... Maybe the cooling system is clogged?
Because I already noticed the insane heat, I did follow 2Phast's part about " Engine Cooling Modification". Oddly enough, WITH the resistor, the fans don't come on until 100 deg C, go to the fastest mode, and don't go off until 85deg again. Maybe that sensor is just broken?
Oh, and about the Autobahn, driving at 200km/h is smooth as silk. Seeing confused people in their new E-Class getting overtaken by me in my 'old' car is priceless
The gearbox is pretty smooth normally. Sometimes when switching up it makes a "boinc" sound, but nothing too disturbing, it's not like the car shakes or something. I'm at 149910km at the moment, so around 93693 miles.
Do you have any more info about the harness? Where do I need to look, exactly, possible with pictures? I'm still learning so much about this car!
I do know that the previous owner changed the radiator a while back. Too bad that shop went down, so I can't ask him why... Maybe the cooling system is clogged?
Because I already noticed the insane heat, I did follow 2Phast's part about " Engine Cooling Modification". Oddly enough, WITH the resistor, the fans don't come on until 100 deg C, go to the fastest mode, and don't go off until 85deg again. Maybe that sensor is just broken?
Oh, and about the Autobahn, driving at 200km/h is smooth as silk. Seeing confused people in their new E-Class getting overtaken by me in my 'old' car is priceless
With regard to the cooling issue, it could be a number of things but most shops should be pretty competent enough to diagnose, especially in Germany I would hope! Could be a simple sensor that when bad, hopefully. I know this car rides like silk and would love to get it past my highest 120mph speed to date. They were just not designed for American roads but we were very lucky to get them over here. And please keep it original, it kills me to see people messing around with it and have the audacity to deface this work of art believing they can make it more attractive, shame on them!!!Please update on status...
Last edited by RPB; 05-31-2011 at 10:22 AM.
05-31-2011, 12:20 PM
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Oh, wow, that was shocking. The connectors at the front of the engine are completely brittle. The little clips on the side to release them breaks when you apply only the slightest amount of force.
The harness, at least, I what I assume is the harness (the big bunch of cables coming from the big brain-box), is shot to hell. The rubber that keeps a branch together is fragile, missing or broken, the wires themselves are... How do I put this... Let's just say the copper is easily accessible. ;-)
I would appreciate any pointers on how to continue. Is there a list of things to buy and replace? Common parts, suppliers, etc?
Edit: I've updated my profile. As you can see, I live in the Netherlands, so any Dutch/German/European supplier would be best.
The harness, at least, I what I assume is the harness (the big bunch of cables coming from the big brain-box), is shot to hell. The rubber that keeps a branch together is fragile, missing or broken, the wires themselves are... How do I put this... Let's just say the copper is easily accessible. ;-)
I would appreciate any pointers on how to continue. Is there a list of things to buy and replace? Common parts, suppliers, etc?
Edit: I've updated my profile. As you can see, I live in the Netherlands, so any Dutch/German/European supplier would be best.
Last edited by JelmerBaas; 05-31-2011 at 12:55 PM.
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05-31-2011, 01:11 PM
#8
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Oh, wow, that was shocking. The connectors at the front of the engine are completely brittle. The little clips on the side to release them breaks when you apply only the slightest amount of force.
The harness, at least, I what I assume is the harness (the big bunch of cables coming from the big brain-box), is shot to hell. The rubber that keeps a branch together is fragile, missing or broken, the wires themselves are... How do I put this... Let's just say the copper is easily accessible. ;-)
I would appreciate any pointers on how to continue. Is there a list of things to buy and replace? Common parts, suppliers, etc?
The harness, at least, I what I assume is the harness (the big bunch of cables coming from the big brain-box), is shot to hell. The rubber that keeps a branch together is fragile, missing or broken, the wires themselves are... How do I put this... Let's just say the copper is easily accessible. ;-)
I would appreciate any pointers on how to continue. Is there a list of things to buy and replace? Common parts, suppliers, etc?
Consider the upper wiring harness ( the upper one, and more expensive) to be a definite wear item. Change it first, before diagnosing anything else!
It comes complete, from MB, and is a simple swap that you can do in your driveway, in an afternoon.
Be sure to give MB the VIN # of your car, as there were running changes through production of the 500E.
The costly repair that the dealer referred to, was likely the Throttle Actuator, but as the previous poster said, a new harness may clear up that problem, and possibly, others.
Good luck with your car. It's great to hear of another car saved by a real
enthusiast!
My own car was written off, as a total wreck, by the original owner. It was in the government insurer's yard, being stripped of parts!
It now looks beautiful (not perfect, yet) and drives great!!
I've had it to 230 kph (140 mph or so), effortless, and as you say, smooth as silk!!
05-31-2011, 02:29 PM
#10
Best price I have found for your harness is $534-580, same as mine. Need to get a new one too...
Part#1244402006
Last edited by RPB; 05-31-2011 at 02:41 PM.
05-31-2011, 03:33 PM
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Thanks for the tips and the part #, not to mention the warm glowy feeling. Good to know other people think like me!
I'll contact Stern tomorrow. Might be slightly more costly, but I like to have the complete (Dutch) history at one dealer.
I took some pictures a while back and uploaded them. If I understand this forum properly, you can see them in my profile. If not, I'll post a link to my picasa album.
If anyone's interested I'll see if I can make some pictures of the interior, as well.
Unfortunately, there is not 235km/h movie. I didn't see the opening coming (road was quite busy) and to be frank, the 220km/h gave me a "mwoah, is this all" feeling. To put that into contrast: the 210km/h I drove in my previous Toyota Avensis made me turn off the music, ignore everything else and sit straight up in my seat....
At any rate, after this cooling problem is sorted I'm heading out to Germany again to... errr... test my high-speed-fuel-economy. And record it.
I'll contact Stern tomorrow. Might be slightly more costly, but I like to have the complete (Dutch) history at one dealer.
I took some pictures a while back and uploaded them. If I understand this forum properly, you can see them in my profile. If not, I'll post a link to my picasa album.
If anyone's interested I'll see if I can make some pictures of the interior, as well.
Unfortunately, there is not 235km/h movie. I didn't see the opening coming (road was quite busy) and to be frank, the 220km/h gave me a "mwoah, is this all" feeling. To put that into contrast: the 210km/h I drove in my previous Toyota Avensis made me turn off the music, ignore everything else and sit straight up in my seat....
At any rate, after this cooling problem is sorted I'm heading out to Germany again to... errr... test my high-speed-fuel-economy. And record it.
05-31-2011, 04:55 PM
#12
Thanks for the tips and the part #, not to mention the warm glowy feeling. Good to know other people think like me!
I'll contact Stern tomorrow. Might be slightly more costly, but I like to have the complete (Dutch) history at one dealer.
I took some pictures a while back and uploaded them. If I understand this forum properly, you can see them in my profile. If not, I'll post a link to my picasa album.
If anyone's interested I'll see if I can make some pictures of the interior, as well.
Unfortunately, there is not 235km/h movie. I didn't see the opening coming (road was quite busy) and to be frank, the 220km/h gave me a "mwoah, is this all" feeling. To put that into contrast: the 210km/h I drove in my previous Toyota Avensis made me turn off the music, ignore everything else and sit straight up in my seat....
At any rate, after this cooling problem is sorted I'm heading out to Germany again to... errr... test my high-speed-fuel-economy. And record it.
I'll contact Stern tomorrow. Might be slightly more costly, but I like to have the complete (Dutch) history at one dealer.
I took some pictures a while back and uploaded them. If I understand this forum properly, you can see them in my profile. If not, I'll post a link to my picasa album.
If anyone's interested I'll see if I can make some pictures of the interior, as well.
Unfortunately, there is not 235km/h movie. I didn't see the opening coming (road was quite busy) and to be frank, the 220km/h gave me a "mwoah, is this all" feeling. To put that into contrast: the 210km/h I drove in my previous Toyota Avensis made me turn off the music, ignore everything else and sit straight up in my seat....
At any rate, after this cooling problem is sorted I'm heading out to Germany again to... errr... test my high-speed-fuel-economy. And record it.
Love to chat about the 500, pm me anytime. Best of luck w/ the tuneup its well worth it.
05-31-2011, 06:03 PM
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93 500e<P>94 E320T "Sportline"<P>90 FJ62
Go here. 500E Specific Forum:
http://www.500espot.com/forums/index.php
No mention of it but I'm assuming your Check Engine Light is on? Replace harness. Clear Codes. Run car at 249KmPH down Autobahn. Read codes.
http://www.500espot.com/forums/index.php
No mention of it but I'm assuming your Check Engine Light is on? Replace harness. Clear Codes. Run car at 249KmPH down Autobahn. Read codes.
05-31-2011, 06:13 PM
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Same combo as mine, originally, too!
#744 Brilliant Silver on Black leather.
Mine is monochrome theme (all silver), now.
#744 Brilliant Silver on Black leather.
Mine is monochrome theme (all silver), now.
Last edited by 190E 16V; 05-31-2011 at 10:41 PM.
05-31-2011, 09:14 PM
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Assuming the 036 has the same system as the 034, make sure your bowden cable is peoperly adjusted. My 034 had the same type of issue where it seemed the WOT shift point was beyond the rev limiter. Under full throttle acceleration, it would rev up and hit the limiter, bog down, then shift up then down. Very annoying when merging onto the highway. Adjusted the cable to bring the WOT shift point down right to the redline on the tach, no further issues. Also, my occaisional ASR disconnect/limp home issue has not reappeared since. As if the cable being out of adjustment confused the ASR/ drive-by-wire system. If the 036 uses a different setup, please pardon my ignorance.
06-01-2011, 04:01 AM
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Thanks all, I'll post the same message in the 500espot forums, I think I have a bigger chance to find another Dutch person nearby then
PaulX608: I doubt it's the same problem; with my it only occurs every now-and-then. I'll focus on the wiring, connectors, etc, but will remember your suggestion.
Also, the exterior is Smoked Silver, interior is dark brown leather. Makes me feel old but it looks sooo classy!
PaulX608: I doubt it's the same problem; with my it only occurs every now-and-then. I'll focus on the wiring, connectors, etc, but will remember your suggestion.
Also, the exterior is Smoked Silver, interior is dark brown leather. Makes me feel old but it looks sooo classy!
06-01-2011, 11:31 AM
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06-01-2011, 11:26 PM
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e400
It should run pretty warm, 110 while driving along is a little bit odd though. Sometimes if i turn my car off for 10 minutes and back on it will be at 105 or 110 but the fans cool it to around 90 in the first minute of being turned back on.
It also gets bad when I'm stuck in traffic in 90 to 100 degree weather, will usually run over 100 celcius even with the fans working hard. Once I get going though it cools down a lot.
And highway driving mine gets much cooler, even when I gun it. Today I was driving down the highway for a while at about 70 mph, outside temps were in the mid 90's. The engine was running around 85 celcius. If i speed up into the 80-90 mph range it goes down to 80 celcius.
During the winter it seems to go as low as 75 when I am going down the highway. I've got the 2.8l M104 so idk how different the temps are supposed to be between my m104 and ur 119.
It also gets bad when I'm stuck in traffic in 90 to 100 degree weather, will usually run over 100 celcius even with the fans working hard. Once I get going though it cools down a lot.
And highway driving mine gets much cooler, even when I gun it. Today I was driving down the highway for a while at about 70 mph, outside temps were in the mid 90's. The engine was running around 85 celcius. If i speed up into the 80-90 mph range it goes down to 80 celcius.
During the winter it seems to go as low as 75 when I am going down the highway. I've got the 2.8l M104 so idk how different the temps are supposed to be between my m104 and ur 119.
06-02-2011, 09:41 AM
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2011 VW cc, 2004 ML350
119s do run hot, but his report seems high to me. My '93 400E usually runs 80-90ēC in normal use. Stuck in traffic on a stupid hot day will see it go higher, but once the fans kick on it cools immediately. JelmerBaas, you may also want to inspect your radiator. I replaced mine a couple years back when I was around 130,000 miles, and it was pretty full of gunk. The new one literally weighed half of the old one! I run 5-10ēC cooler now.
06-02-2011, 09:51 AM
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I just checked that, it's from Behr AMA7083AA2M / A1245000302 from 2007. Might still be clogged, of course. I'll try and flush the entire system in a while. From the outside, though, it looks good and clear.
Are there aftermarket radiators that have a higher cooling capacity?
Are there aftermarket radiators that have a higher cooling capacity?
06-02-2011, 03:28 PM
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I just checked that, it's from Behr AMA7083AA2M / A1245000302 from 2007. Might still be clogged, of course. I'll try and flush the entire system in a while. From the outside, though, it looks good and clear.
Are there aftermarket radiators that have a higher cooling capacity?
Are there aftermarket radiators that have a higher cooling capacity?
