Big Brakes!
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
1993 300E
Big Brakes!
I heard that you can do a relatively inexpensive big brake conversion using parts sourced out of a company named Wilwood. However you need to make the whole kit yourself. I was wondering where I get specific information and specs concerning the stock brake setup on a 1993 300E. And if anyone has any additional information on the subject of big brakes any input would be helpful. If you drive fast i reckon you need to stop fast as well. Thanks!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 11
From: Manchester, CT
My 2 cents here...
Save your money...unless you have goo-gobs of it!
The stock MB stuff is quite adequate for fast street driving and even on the track for a bit (with an educated driver).
In addition to the 400E, the 500E and even the SL600 calipers and rotors can be bolted on any W124 or 201 for perhaps a bit more fade resistance (btw, they ALL use the same pads) but the extra weight and size will affect front end feel and turn in (as with any larger brake upgrade)
Try this first before shelling out thousands on a brake kit. New solid OEM rotors, EBC, Hawk or Pagid pads(there are others too, of course), a DOT 4 or 5 brake fluid (Ate Super Blue, Motul, Castrol LMX, etc), and SS brake lines. If you aren't wowed by the difference in feel and stopping power, then open up yer wallet and go for the Alcons, Brembos, or Wildwoods...then your eyeballs surely will fall out of their sockets when you hit it.
Don't even waste you time on the rear brakes...not much going on there in the ways of stopping power. But if you have open rims and need to look good, then by all means, get 'em all done new.
Seems more like 4 cents now, its Ok...I got a few to give up.
Save your money...unless you have goo-gobs of it!
The stock MB stuff is quite adequate for fast street driving and even on the track for a bit (with an educated driver).
In addition to the 400E, the 500E and even the SL600 calipers and rotors can be bolted on any W124 or 201 for perhaps a bit more fade resistance (btw, they ALL use the same pads) but the extra weight and size will affect front end feel and turn in (as with any larger brake upgrade)
Try this first before shelling out thousands on a brake kit. New solid OEM rotors, EBC, Hawk or Pagid pads(there are others too, of course), a DOT 4 or 5 brake fluid (Ate Super Blue, Motul, Castrol LMX, etc), and SS brake lines. If you aren't wowed by the difference in feel and stopping power, then open up yer wallet and go for the Alcons, Brembos, or Wildwoods...then your eyeballs surely will fall out of their sockets when you hit it.
Don't even waste you time on the rear brakes...not much going on there in the ways of stopping power. But if you have open rims and need to look good, then by all means, get 'em all done new.
Seems more like 4 cents now, its Ok...I got a few to give up.
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 184
Likes: 1
From: Montreal, Canada
260E , 1989 (for now)
I'll second Jim's opinion.
get your stock brake up to spec and you will have plenty of braking power.
Tires, suspension and especially shock absorbers play a great role in stopping performance. If any of those parts is not in tip top shape, your investment on monster brakes will be a total waste of effort (i.e.$$)
JackD
get your stock brake up to spec and you will have plenty of braking power.
Tires, suspension and especially shock absorbers play a great role in stopping performance. If any of those parts is not in tip top shape, your investment on monster brakes will be a total waste of effort (i.e.$$)
JackD
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
1993 300E
Bigger Brakes
Hey thanks for the quick replies. I have H&R sport springs and sport bilstein shocks on my 300E already (only 3 months old). True, my brakes are pretty savvy, however I just want bigger brakes, Do 500E brakes bolt on as well? I thought they were made/developed by Porsche. Does anyone know where I can get specifications on the brake set-ups of the different models?
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
From: London, UK
W124
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 11
From: Manchester, CT
Jackd brings up good points too...tires, springs and shocks also contribute greatly to the whole brake picture.
500E brakes were made by Ate and are MB specific, not Porsche, they are from the SLs (R129) cars. The rotors and calipers will bolt right on the stock W124 carriers. Porsche just reworked and stuffed the motor in the chassis, tweaked the intake runners and put all the cars together on the Porsche 959 line in Rossel-Blau because the cars were too wide for the Sindelfingen automated lines.
500E brakes were made by Ate and are MB specific, not Porsche, they are from the SLs (R129) cars. The rotors and calipers will bolt right on the stock W124 carriers. Porsche just reworked and stuffed the motor in the chassis, tweaked the intake runners and put all the cars together on the Porsche 959 line in Rossel-Blau because the cars were too wide for the Sindelfingen automated lines.
Trending Topics
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 4
From: Motor City
95 E320 Cabriolet, 108K
I just wanted to clarify Jim's recommendation on brake fluid. Use DOT 4 or 5.1, not DOT 5. DOT 4 and 5.1 are interchangable, DOT 5 is silicone - a completely different animal. I don't know why they came up with such a screwy and non-intuitive classification system for brake fluids.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 11
From: Manchester, CT
He's right... DOT 5 is for racing purposes (and trucks (!) I think). I run it in my track car (the 16V Scirocco) It'll work but you need to redo the whole shabang so no old fluid is in there.
DOT 4 is fine and more readily available, actually , you can use just fresh DOT 3, its fine, but if you brake hard, the DOT 4 would be the better route, imo.
DOT 4 is fine and more readily available, actually , you can use just fresh DOT 3, its fine, but if you brake hard, the DOT 4 would be the better route, imo.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,491
Likes: 2
From: Vancouver, BC
Enzo, my Benzo
I was told that if you upgrade only fronts or rears, that it will mess up the brake balance and affect how the car will behave/react in braking..can someone clarify or disspell this for me?
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 4
From: Motor City
95 E320 Cabriolet, 108K
Yes, it's true. I ran into this issue when I changed the front drums to discs on my Cutlass. If you reengineer the braking system, you may need to modify the proportioning valve, in order to balance the brake fluid pressure requirements between front and rear. I've seen variable proportioning valves marketed for this purpose in hot rod and custom car magazines. You can set the proper proportioning with this device.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 11
From: Manchester, CT
Yes, it can and will make your car feel disconnected from the front with respect to the rear...depending on how much of an big upgrade you do.
On a race car it won't matter as much but on a street car it might feel wierd to the average person. Just my experience on my 16V Scirocco....I actually switched out my 12" fronts back to the 10" ones b/c of the huge feeling difference it gave me...oh, and I also learned to better modualate my braking while racing so the bigger fronts weren't needed anymore.
On a race car it won't matter as much but on a street car it might feel wierd to the average person. Just my experience on my 16V Scirocco....I actually switched out my 12" fronts back to the 10" ones b/c of the huge feeling difference it gave me...oh, and I also learned to better modualate my braking while racing so the bigger fronts weren't needed anymore.
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: Boston, MA, USA
1981 380 SLC (R107)
i seriously doubt that you'd notice much of a difference in brake bias unless you did something REALLY drastic to the setup. like going from 12" stock brakes to 14" with 8 piston calipers.
also associated with this, which MB brake upgrades go with wich MB wheel upgrades? i'd be interested in both a front brake and 4 wheel upgrade and want to make sure the calipers will clear OK.
finally, what luck have some of you had with drilled/slotted rotors on stock calipers? powerslots? and do they make a "big brake" kit that uses the same caliper, but larger diameter rotor (so the swept brake pad area is the same, but the braking force is carried over a larger distance)?
also associated with this, which MB brake upgrades go with wich MB wheel upgrades? i'd be interested in both a front brake and 4 wheel upgrade and want to make sure the calipers will clear OK.
finally, what luck have some of you had with drilled/slotted rotors on stock calipers? powerslots? and do they make a "big brake" kit that uses the same caliper, but larger diameter rotor (so the swept brake pad area is the same, but the braking force is carried over a larger distance)?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,436
Likes: 6
300ce
ZorroAMG,
.........I just finished looking at your car. Very very nice car. Where did you get your Euro headlights from? The problem I have is that my clear corner lens is much clearer and a different shade of glass from my Euro headlight lens. Yours seems to be uniform. Can you let me know what you did?
Ted
.........I just finished looking at your car. Very very nice car. Where did you get your Euro headlights from? The problem I have is that my clear corner lens is much clearer and a different shade of glass from my Euro headlight lens. Yours seems to be uniform. Can you let me know what you did?
Ted
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
Jim or anyone,
Will the 4-piston front calipers off of a 2003 Mercedes Benz SL500 fit on the w124? The seller claims they are manufactured by Brembo and will fit 220 chassis S-class, 215 chassis CL-class, and 203 chassis C-class. The part numbers are: 002 420 23 83--left 002 420 24 83--right
Thanks,
Felix
500E brakes were made by Ate and are MB specific, not Porsche, they are from the SLs (R129) cars. The rotors and calipers will bolt right on the stock W124 carriers.
Thanks,
Felix
Almost a Member!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
320CE
Originally posted by pifcat2
Will the 4-piston front calipers off of a 2003 Mercedes Benz SL500 fit on the w124? The seller claims they are manufactured by Brembo and will fit 220 chassis S-class, 215 chassis CL-class, and 203 chassis C-class. The part numbers are: 002 420 23 83--left 002 420 24 83--right
Will the 4-piston front calipers off of a 2003 Mercedes Benz SL500 fit on the w124? The seller claims they are manufactured by Brembo and will fit 220 chassis S-class, 215 chassis CL-class, and 203 chassis C-class. The part numbers are: 002 420 23 83--left 002 420 24 83--right
Assuming these calipers are fitted onto a stock W124 rotor, will they clear OE-spec W124 wheels, or do they need more backspacing (i.e., change wheels, or possibly use a spacer) ?
In addition to some of the suggestions earlier (high-temp DOT4 brake fluid, SS brake pads, possibly a more aggressive brake pad compound), you also might consider improving ventilation (airflow)to the brakes. Inadequate heat dissipation is one of the leading causes of premature brake issues (fade, shudder, etc) -- earlier Benzes are not the best in this area. Remove the splash shields, and dust shields, add ducting/venting as necessary, etc.
Last edited by Manuel 320CE; Dec 6, 2003 at 11:26 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
Let me rephrase the question. Does anyone know if these will fit without modifications? I wouldn't mind a rotor change if that is necessary. I have 16" AMG 3 piece wheels and SSTL lines but would like to upgrade the braking power. I know the 400E and 500E calipers bolt on but I don't have a current opportunity to get a deal on them. Thanks!
