CS1946

I hope I can solicit the advice of some of you who drive M-B's. I currently drive a 1986 BMW 528e. The car has 275,000 miles, but the engine was rebuilt about 20K miles ago and runs beautifully. Overall, the car is in great condition mechanically and cosmetically. However, over the past year (I've had it for 15 months) I've spent $2,000 to keep the car in good running condition. This, combined with the fact that the design is now quite dated, has encouraged me to look for a new car.

I recently drove an E34 '89 BMW 535i and was extremely impressed. The car felt much more solid and tight than mine and accelerated and generally drove quite effortlessly. I really value solid construction, a strong engine, and good handling; I also want my next car to be quieter and ride a bit better than the 528e.

I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of those of you who have owned one, or better yet both an E34 ('89-'95) 5-Series and W124 300E. Which car did you like better and why? What are the strong and weak points of each? Were there a great deal of problems during the time you owned the car? What are generally the highest miles I should accept?

I'm looking most closely at an '89-'91 525i or an '87-'91 300E (3.0L only), and cannot really spend more than $5,000.

I'd greatly appreciate hearing your opinions. Thanks in advance.

Craig

worleydave

Don't get me wrong here; I like bimmers. I sold my 88 735i and bought my MB on a whim. The differences are significant. The MB seems to have been designed and engineered to last a hell of a lot longer than the BMW. The plastic is one example. On the BMW, there were been all kinds of little crappy plastic things crumbling like airbag sensor housings, lens covers, plastic rivets, on and on. Gets to be a real nuisance. THe quality of materials on the older MBs is unparalled. But my car cost $79k new in '95. It had better be damn good quality.

The drive of a BMW seems more sporting/performance oriented. More feel of the road, a little less steering effort. I have driven the old 535i and they are like a rocket compared to the 528. That's an 8 vs. 6 cyl. for you. If you want to compare, drive an E 420. I say go for the durability of the MB.

CS1946

Thanks for your reply. You're right, the plastic seems to be a great example. Not that it's a perfect comparison, but my roommate at college has a 1998 Mazda Millenia, and all the plastic in that car is much more finely-grained and luxurious-feeling than that in mine. Little things like this make a difference to me. Over rough roads, the structure of my car creaks quite a bit, and at various (low) speeds, plastic parts will occasionally buzz. I feel it's really important that my next car be drum-tight--I don't want to feel like I'm driving an economy car. Seems like the Mercedes would be better in this respect, right?

It was great to hear your thoughts on this topic. Thanks a lot.

suginami

I like the 525i's quite a bit, and it'd be a difficult choice for me, too.

I have a 93 300E, which has the M104 3.2 liter DOHC engine that is found in the 94-95 E320 (W124) and the 96-97 W320 (current E320 body style).

The engine has significantly more horsepower than the 3.0 liter M103 engine in the 300E's prior to 1992. That is what makes the choice so difficult.

I have driven both, and am confident that the 300E chasis is much more solid. The integrity of the chasis are so great, that I've never seen any that creak even at 500,000 miles. The interiors also hold up well, but the wood paneling will crack.

The 525i's don't have the same chasis integrity, but the 525i engine feels better suited to the size and weight of the car. I don't think the 300E's are underpowered, but it is just adequate. I also believe the 525's could use more power, it's just that the 2.5 liter engine feels a little more adequate.

I'm partial to MB's so I would probably go for the 300E, but I can see how someone would chose the 525i.

By the way, the 535i was also a 6 cylinder, and one or two years there was a 530i, which is a V8, not a 6.

worleydave

Don't know why I was thinking the 3.5 was an 8. Senior moment. Obviously the same displacement as the 735 I sold. Previous poster is correct.

CS1946

Appreciate the second reply. I probably won't be able to afford a 1993 with the 3.2L inline-6. If I could, it would probably be an easy choice in favor of the 300E. I must say I don't hear the kind of praise for the 3.0L M-B engine that I do for the 2.5L in the BMW as far as power, technology and engine sound is concerned.

Also, I like the styling of the BMW ever-so-slightly more than that of the 300E. What do you think?

suginami

I like the sytling of the 525i quite a bit, and it seems to be aging well.

The power to weight ratio probably favors the BMW, as well.

Chosing between a BMW and a MB is just like the difference between Chevy guys and Ford guys. It's more than a logical decision. It's primarily an emotional one. Which is what it should be.

Get the BMW. You're already clearly leaning that way, you've owned a BMW before, and I'm sure if you buy the MB you'll always be thinking in the back of your mind, "I wonder what it'd be like if I bought the 525i..."

worleydave

Here is a link to a good message board for the e34. Take a look at some of those posts and try your questions out on the BMW crowd. They can talk best about reliability, maintenance costs, etc...

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e34/

CS1946

I think that's a good point; the 525i is the logical (emotional) decision. Its being the direct successor to my own car does play a big part. I just thought I'd check out the options as far as Mercedes is concerned, since I've always been a big fan. By the way, the more replies I get, the harder the decision becomes! Seriously, thanks all of you.

Regarding the E34 message board, I have been there before, but will go again to check it out more in earnest. Thanks.

Craig

Level8Drummer

It's funny that someone should post that question... Well the bmw's will outrun the mercs in this situation. If you do get an E34, get a 535 (and if you care about performance or maintenence, get one with a manual trannie, trust me). And don't go to roadfly, all of the good E34 people have moved onto another board...

http://www.bimmernut.com/wwwboard/e34/

And go here...

http://www.bmwe34.net/

Best web site ever made from a mechanical standpoint.

I'm not sure though that you can get a good E34 for 5 grand. 525 maybe... Not sure, haven't looked into 525s.

And the 535 m30 engine is bulletproof. It's built for anything that a car can do. And it has much more low end power than a merc. And it'll top out at around 142 (man trans) and chipped (which knocks the hp up to 222) up to prolly 146. It'll boogie. And the man trans is strong, it'll hold 700 hp stock. Good car to put a turbo on.

I'm looking to sell my 300TE and buy a 535IM (manual) right now. I could prolly get a good one for $8,000.

Test drive both and see what you like. Neither's hard to find.

Level8Drummer
87 300TE (For Sale)
http://www.hephaestusdesigns.com/mercedes.html

CS1946

Thanks for the suggestions. For some reason, 535's seem to be priced about the same or less than comparable 525's. On Autotrader.com, it's difficult to find even a '93 535i for more than $8,000 or so. However, '95 525i's can often fetch $15-20K.

My mechanic, who is a dedicated BMW enthusiast, recommended that I look at the 525 rather than the 535 because the former will be more reliable and much more fuel efficient than the latter. There are, as you mentioned, many advantages to a 535, and if I find one, I will be very tempted to buy it.

I will also check out the two websites you included. I think an E34 is now my first choice, and I'll fall back on a late-80's 300E if I can't find a good E34.

suginami

My brother has an older 735i (1985??), so I have watched his experience with the car, and from time to time, I pop in and read the discussions at many of the BMW websites.

I have never ever read that the big six (3.5) is unreliable. In fact, it is usually praised as their most reliable workhorse.

I don't understand the concept that a 2.5 liter inline 6 would be reliable and a 3.5 liter inline 6 should be avoided.

The argument is always that the 2.5 liter is simply adequate, and the 3.5 liter is a revelation.

My brother's car has approx 225,000 miles, and it has been enormously reliable, even though he barely maintains the car.

I have another suggestion. Ever consider looking at the 94 or 95 530i? This is a V8, and was only made these two years. In 2001, BMW came out with the 530i again, but it is a 6 cylinder.

CS1946

Thanks. My mechanic, who is extremely familiar with BMW's and is a big 3-Series fan, recommended that I get a 525 rather than a 535. He has a number of E30 and E36 325's, so that might have influenced his advice. At any rate, he didn't say I shouldn't get a 535i, but explained that the 2.5L would be more reliable and efficient.

By the way, most of the reliability issues I heard about elsewhere seem to pertain to E32 735's. I figured that since the E34 535i's use the same engine, there may be similar issues. Thanks for your input. The owner of the '89 535i I drove bought the car for $5,000 and has also had no major problems with it.

Regarding the '94-'95 530i's, I like them a lot, but they're out of my price range--at least $12,000 for a decent one.

townhouse

If you possibly can, have one of each. The MB W124 is solid and will run forever if well treated, but is a little less 'sporty' than the Beemer, even at a 300E.
Right now I have a Merc W124 wagon ( for the kids, dog, in-laws, fishing gear etc) but had two new Beemers before that and am looking for an E28 5-series as a 'project' now that I've finally got my wife's Porsche 1989 944s up to decent condidtion.
As an earlier post said, it's an emotional decision - I love my Merc but in your shoes I'd have the Beemer.
In the UK, where I am, you'd pay the equivalent of $8,000 for an early 90's 300E, but $5-6,000 would get a decent 525. Good luck.

suginami

The prices are the same in sunny Southern California, the Mercedes capitol of the world.

I look at prices everyday (I can't help myself), even though I'm happy with my car and not looking.

A good early 90's 300E will run from $7,000 for a high mileage car, up to $10,000 for a car in pristine condition, with books, records, etc.

A 93 300E / 94-95 E320 (all have 3.2 liter engine) will run from $10,000 - $15,000, depending on condition, mileage, and where you buy it from. Hell, I see 'em on dealers lots advertised for $18,000 everyday of the week, and I just don't know how they sell 'em.

suginami

I just did a quick search on carpoint, and the 535i was made from 89-93, and from 94-95 the 'big engine' 5-series was the 540.

Fuel economy does appear to suffer, but good Lord! You're going from 189 HP in the 525 to 310 HP in the 535. Which would you rather be driving?

http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Engines/...eries/1993.asp

Craig, I spoke to my mechanic who is a BMW / Mercedes shop, and he says the 3.5 liter is every bit as reliable as the 2.5 liter, maybe even more so, because the engine doesn't have to work as hard to move the car around. These straight sixes have been used by BMW since the 70's. You'd think by 1993 they'd have gotten it down, wouldn't you?

CS1946

Thanks both of you. The 535i is starting to look a lot more desirable after all of your comments! By the way, its engine has 208 hp and quite a lot more torque than the 525i (I forget how much). The M5 is the one with 310 hp, and at $20-25K is well out of my meager $5k price range.

I drive my 528e an awful lot; often I run it on highways and twisty back roads just because I enjoy driving it so much. So if I get a less fuel efficient car after this one, I guess I can just avoid driving it as much. That'll be hard, though!

I live in central Maryland, and the prices you quote generally seem to apply here too.

Townhouse, you mentioned that you restored an '89 Porsche 944. What do you think of it? I like Porsches a lot (although not as much as BMW and M-B), and the 944 is actually in my price range. And if you're interested in my '86 528eA, I could export it over to you, complete with the enormous American-style bumpers!

Appreciate all your comments.

suginami

You must have nerves of steel. I went back and read your first post, dated 3-2-02.

When I'm looking to buy a car, I usually get obsessed about it, and look at cars after work and on the weekends - furiously - until I find the car I must have.

Have you actually driven any used cars yet that you're thinking of buying?

I re-read and discovered your budget is $5,000. That will realisticaly get you an '86 to '88-ish, mayber 89 300E with a bit of mileage on it.

I don't know what year BMW 525 that will get ya.

I think a test drive in each of these cars - one that is listed in your price range - you'll know immediately which one you're going to buy.

CS1946

A month ago I contacted a bunch of dealers with listings on Autotrader.com of cars in my price range. At that time, I was tentatively planning to go to NYC, so I inquired if I could test-drive a really nice-looking 160K '88 300E up there. Unfortunately, that was the only dealer who responded, and I later decided that the trip was not worth it just to see the car. I ought to visit some dealers around here. As I mentioned, I already drove an '89 535i and loved it.

Although I'm getting a little tired of my current car and really want a newer one, I don't have a concrete reason to replace it immediately. Additionally, I may be studying in Europe this fall, so I don't want to have to sell my 'new' car right away. Better to sell the 528e then and get a 525i/535i or 300E when I return. I was nevertheless interested in hearing owners' opinions of these cars.

I believe I can afford '86-'89 300E's (as you mentioned) with maybe 150K or so miles and '89-'91 525i/535i's in the same mileage range. My current car still looks good and runs well but is 15 years old with 275K orig. miles, so I think any of these newer cars would be a major improvement.

townhouse

Craig,
To be honest, I'm not that fond of the 944 - every time I get in and out I seem to hit my head on the roofline, even with the electric seat adjustment on lowest setting. This car sits a lot lower than a W124 - My wife's dad says the Merc is like driving in your living room chair and maybe he's right - this is a retired guy with a microlight plane and a 1950's restored Vincent motorbike, so I guess comfort is not big on his list.
That said, the 2.7 litres has still got plenty to go. The torque in third gear is outstanding and it's easy to forget to shift into 5th, especially when I'm used to the automatic MB.
Only significant problem, apart from other drivers reversing into the front because they don't see it from the height of their 4WDs, was an oil seal in the transmission at the rear - simple usually, but it was on the wrong side of the hub to get at easily.
For a thirteen year old car with 115,000 miles on it, it still turns heads, and my wife loves the car. Pity about the cost of new light clusters and repairs to the bonnet, wings and front skirt -maybe the US-style fenders are not such a bad idea.
Meanwhile I'm still trying to fix my Bosch fuel injection pressure regulator on my 230TE - somebody out there must know how to do this. It took 20 turns of the ignition to start this morning and even with new battery, plugs and HT leads, this is not good for the starter.............

CS1946

Thanks for the info on the 944. I've always wanted to have a Porsche, but not as much as a BMW or M-B. Seems like the car might be nice to have--I'll continue to consider it. I tend to like larger sedans (BMW 5/7 and M-B E/S), but since the 944 is a sports car, I think I could live with the small size.

Sorry to hear about the damage caused to your car. There are lots of SUV's in the states (you're in the U.K., correct?). I guess they are OK if you are driving one, but I prefer cars because of the way they look and drive, and consider SUV's a menace every time I am on the road. Did you get any money following the incident?

I don't know anything about fixing the fuel injection pressure regulator--I hope you find a solution. My car generally cranks for 2-4 seconds before firing (once in a while for around 10), but my mechanic says this is just because it's an old car.

townhouse

Craig, Sorry for this long post but..
I hardly mentioned the good points about the Porsche because I prefer my own MB - looks great in hardtop with detachable sunroof like my wife's, or the more expensive soft-top; sounds absolutely great at full throttle but top speed a bit limited now - 120-130 tops; mid range accleration is very fast; fuel economy good considering it's a genuine sports car; 2+2 if you have very small passengers, but the seats fold flat for a genuine 2-seater; all round vision good for a low slung car but the rear wiper has no washer; solid engineering, indestructible unless you really abuse it, even more so than the MB and the body is galvanised - not a spot of rust on a 13 year old car; and finally, even though it's a front-engined car, it behaves like a real rear-engined Porsche - it's easy to lose the rear end if you're not careful and that's one of the fears/pleasures of these cars. It's also relatively easy to work on and parts not too expensive, but if you use an official dealer the labour charges really hurt. The best part of all is that - in Scotland at least - you can pick up a lived-in 944 for around $5600 and restore to a good finish - I don't know if the same applies in the US
The bumps from SUVs are just an occupational hazard - my wife uses the car for work in a crowded city every day, so you live with it.
And today I solved the problem with the MB - I took it to a garage with a diagnostic machine - makes your car look as if it's on life support with all those wires attached - the operator told me I'd had the car jump started from a running engine in the last month (correct) and the the electronic control unit (ecu) had developed a fault because of a spike in the current. Apparently 1988-92 W124s didn't have a bypass circuit to absorb a power spike when jump starting from another car that's running while you're connected.
I had somehow let the battery go flat and tried to recharge from the Porsche - the jump leads actually melted, which is probably a good thing as the fault could have been worse otherwise.
I'm told that the ecu can be repaired although the car will be garaged for a while until that's done, but it's better than $1200 for a new unit. Beware if you get the 300E as this is not, apparently, a documented fault and applies to all the W124s. I was told it also applies to Jaguars and Land-Rovers of the same vintage, but I assume these don't feature on your want list.
I'm going to post this separately on the technical page to check I've been given good information
Regards........

CS1946

Wow, thanks for telling me that about the W124. I've had to jump start my car twice (both times by own fault--interior light left on 1st/keys left in ignition [at home] 2nd). I will use caution if I get that car. I know that on BMW's, you can apparently blow out the onboard computer if you use too strong a current, so you should remove the fuse for that first. And I'd love to get a Jaguar, but I'm definitely afraid of repair costs.

I guess the 944 is everything I thought it would be--sounds like a lot of fun. 120-130 mph is plenty for me; I've taken the 528e over 100 mph a number of times and up to about 110 max. I just received my second speeding ticket in six months on Thursday (65 in 45). I guess I should have known police would be out at 2:50 AM, but on a six-lane divided highway with no other cars (I thought...) it would have been tough to go slower. And the 528e is sometimes described as anemic! Since the speed can get away so easily in this car, I'm wary of buying a faster car. Still, driving enthusiastically in a fast and agile car is immensely satisfying, and isn't satisfaction part of what driving is all about?

I haven't yet talked to my mechanic about the 944, but based on what you mentioned, it seems like a very solid choice. I take very good care of my car, drive it fast, but almost never flog it. If I do the same with the Porsche, I suppose it should serve me well.

Thanks again for your previous comments.

CS1946

By the way, Level8Drummer, I went back and read all the previous posts and finally visited the link you put at the bottom of your post. I must have missed it the first time. Your '87 300TE does look really nice--flawless, as you said! I don't like the plastic bumpers, though. When did Mercedes replace them with body colored ones?

Good luck selling that car, if you haven't already.

suginami

1990 and newer models have the body colored lower cladding and bumpers.