Robot

Hello. I just picked up a 1995 E320. Pearl Black with black leather, 117K miles, super clean. I am amazed by the quality of construction in this car. The seats still look brand new. And of course the car drives brilliantly. My previous car, now for sale, is a 2000 VW Passat. I've taken very good care of that car, but it hasn't held up nearly as well as the Merc, with a 5 year head start.

My question is this: I didn't get the car looked at by a mechanic before I bought it. I knew I was risking some major repair costs, but the car felt and looked so solid, and it was damn cheap (<$8000). So now I need to get the car checked out. Do you recommend taking the car into a dealership and paying for a full inspection? Or just going directly to a good independent German mechanic, since I'll probably have the work done by and indie anyways. Any benefit to the dealership, or should they not be trusted? I live in LA, so I have lots of options. I will either take the car to MB of Beverly Hills, or to L&M Motors, a shop my buddy uses for his 1976 450 SEL and his girlfriend's W210.

I do know of a couple problems right off the bat:
-The drivers side power seat mechanism is screwy. It sometimes moves the seat in the opposite direction from the one chosen;

-Neither power headrest works;

-the passenger side mirror only moves from side to side, not up and down;

-suspension feels a bit floaty - is this normal or might it be time for new shocks?

Anyways, I love this car so far. I think this has to be one of the most handsome designs of the last 25 years. Any help is appreciated.

ebennz

congrats on the purchase!!

did you get the maintenace records or have access to them?
those can be very useful.

it is my opinion go to the stealership. i know others may disagree.

they can pull up the vin and see what things [warranty] have been done and can also bring you current on maintenance.

do your best to make 'friends' with them, the day will come when you'll need them.

definetly find a good indy [or two], they are important too.

some issues are wiring harness, oil leaks, head gasket failure, plastic necks on radiators are the 'weak' spot there.

check the rear shocks, if they are original they are shot.

bilstein heavy duty firms up the ride and inspite of what some may say, you do NOT feel every bump.

do a 'search' on 'm104', 'bilstein heavy duty', also 'sportline suspension' may interest you.

welcome!

peter

Kestas

Congratulations. Now spend a few hours reading through old posts on this site (and other MB sites), to get acquainted with some systematic problems that crop up on this particular car (engine wiring harness, head gasket, head rests, egr blockage, door check straps).

cap'n jasper

Welcome!
I can probably help you with the headrest problem as I fixed mine once. When you press the button do you hear the motor inside the seat working?
If so then take the back of the seat off and look at the mechanism. There's a white plastic box containing a metal gear that drives a black plastic ratchet. If the white plastic case is broken (as mine was) then a metal pipe clip (jubilee clip?) will fix it. If it's the black plastic ratchet then replace it (cheap).

pifcat2

Robot,

Congrats! Welcome to w124 world!

Do all the things previously recommended including:
CarFax (I know it doesn't catch everything but it's a check)
Check if the car is salvaged or flood damaged. That may explain the VERY low price. Hopefully it's a previous owner who didn't really care about the sale price. Flood damage could make the electricals screwy.

If you're a DIY'er check all the wiring connections and switches before replacing parts. You can swap them with ones that work to make sure. If you're not a DIY'er, a good electrical specialist may do that for you but you may want to provide the car's schematics so they don't waste lots of time.

The mirror has two snap mounts for up/down. If they aren't snapped in it won't move in that direction. You may have to press hard to get them in. You can get nervous not to break the glass but it's pretty strong. Even if you break it, a whole used mirror assembly usually sells for $30-50 on eBay and installs in <10 minutes.

"Floaty suspension" can be fixed by shocks but may also be worn rear link bushings or front ball joints. The suspension search should yield the specifics.

Dealers have their value as not everyone has the experience and the specialized diagnostic equipment. I was surprised some parts are not too badly priced. Check them first and if you have heartburn, search the internet specialty sources.

Robot

Thanks for the replies!

I have spent quite a bit of time reading over this site and the Benz World site over the past week. I'm grateful for the resource. I also frequent the Car Lounge forum at vwvortex.com as well, and there are lot of people over there who think very highly of the W124.

I did see a Carfax before I bought - it was a one owner car with no noted accidents, damage, flood, nothing. I bought it from a private lot that sells a lot of BMW's and Mercedes. I was actually looking at another car there about a month ago, and liked the people there and the selection, so I kept checking their website. They had the car there before at around $10500. When the price dropped to $7850, I went back to look at it. It was beautiful, and it drove well, so I just took it! They told me that they cycle cars off the lot after about 30 days, and they dropped the price to around what they expected to get at auction for a few days to see if it would sell. I wasn't even in the market for a W124. I was looking for a Crown Vic, as I wanted a cheap, large, RWD sedan that would be cheap to own. I know that the W124 will be costlier to maintain, but it's a hell of a lot more car.

If the shocks are gone, I'll definitely go to the Bilstein HD's. I have those on my Passat and I love them. I probably won't do more than that to the suspension. I lowered my Passat for a while and went to 17" wheels, and eventually took it back to stock height and rims. I like the look, but I don't like the rough ride, or the scraping on steep driveways. I think the Bilsteins are a nice compromise, and I may eventually look at some 16" monoblock rims.

It sounds like the mirror and headrest are simple enough fixes. I'll cross my fingers on the wiring harness, head gasket, etc. The engine sounds great, there is no evidence of leaking oil, the tranny shifts smooth, up and down, and it just looks freaking brand new! I'm im love.

pifcat2: do you mean that I should press in on the mirror directly, while it's in the assembly? Or do I need to take something apart first? Will I hear a click when it engages?

Again, thanks for the help.

pifcat2

Robot,
Try this on the mirror: Adjust it to it's extreme angle so that you can see behind the glass. You may pull it a little until you are able to see the snap brackets. I actually pulled it off to study how it was attached and inspected the mounting. You may need someone to control the switch while viewing the attachment points. Firm, even pressure should get the glass back to attach if the brackets aren't broken.

BTW, I got lucky with my car purchase too. It's all timing and luck. Thank goodness for depreciation and the fact that "most" cars lose so much resale value after 100k. Our little secret is that Benz engine's are just getting broken in...

Luokyio

Damn. In our country W124 like that would cost 20 000 euros at least...

But, have fun with your Mercedes

Jackd

Congrats for your new car.
Loose suspension: your rear suspension bushings are probably in need of replacement. When they are worned, they make the car very unstable. Also check the steering damper. It also cause the car to wander.
Bilsteins: I had a set installed on mine and kept them for 3 weeks. I just could not stand the harsh/hard ride. An MB is not supposed to ride like a pick-up truck.
Have your car inspected by a competent MB specialist. It does not have to be at a dealer.
Things to check (known problems): Wiring harnest, flex-disks, head gasket leaks,, radiator, water pump leak, A/C evaporator (big $$money$$ to replace), suspension bushings,
Good luck
JackD

echo200

I collated a lot of data recently regarding this subject and I thought that it might interest all contributors.

Mercedes-Benz Owner Comments (Source: Internet )

Between 1993 & 95 Mercedes used wire with insulation that disintegrates when heated. This means you have to replace the whole wiring loom under the bonnet.


I have a 1994 C280. It began having odd electrical "quirks" about a year ago. Finally the engine began to run rough, so off to the dealership I went. They told me it was because of the insulation on the wiring harness breaking down and it would be $1600.00 to replace. My question is has anyone heard of this happening to such a relatively new Mercedes and sense it has now become a fire hazard from the overheating of the wiring and the battery boiling, should Mercedes have any responsibility to recall this faulty wiring harness?


(I believe the next writer is Australian)

It's a common problem with the M104 wiring harness and this problem is widely documented by many W124/202/210 owners and technicians.

It fails due to the use of recyclable/biodegradable plastic as the insulating material for the copper wires. The environment is hostile enough as it is for premium quality high temp plastic, let alone the recyclable variety! I am actually quite amazed some lasted for close to 10 years now.

Where I live the ambient temp can get up to 42C on a hot summer day (107F to you guys), and I see a lot of them getting repaired/replaced at various euro cars specialists. None of the repairs I've last more than few days/weeks at a time. When one part of the loom shorts, the other parts aren't far behind.

Due to the high price of the loom here (around US $1500-1600), it's almost cheaper for some owners to fly to Singapore or Hong Kong for a cheap weekend trip and bring one back from one of many eurocar parts specialists over there. This guy I know went over to sg with his wife and rather spend that chunk of cash for a short holiday than to hand it over to the official MB dealer here and have nothing to show for bar a set of wires.

I'll post again when I find out the cost of the harness when I go to Hong Kong next. (In fact I have no less than 3 orders from friends who have MBs and Ssangyong with M104 engines even though their harness are so without a problem!)


I have the same problem with a 1995 C280 wiring harness. The insulation is breaking down and the independent repair shop is still working on it. The harness itself cost over $900 plus labor to install it. He also replaced the coil, spark plugs, fuel filter and air filter.


I had the wiring harness replaced on my 1995 C280 about 2 months ago because the engine would randomly die, even at highway speed. Everything worked fine until a couple of days ago when the car started to die again at speed. The repair shop also recommended that I replace the spark plug wires but I held off. Perhaps the recent problems are a result of plug wire failure. Has anyone else had problems with the engine dying at highway speeds (no sputter, it just dies, all other electrical components function)?


The engine wiring harness started causing misfires and the "Check Engine" light to come on when the car had a little over 100K miles on it. My independent mechanic opened the loom up and showed me wires so decomposed they looked like they came off a 1949 Mercedes, not 1994. I went to my local dealer, "Silver Star" and they said "You have a lot of miles, unless your spending lots of money with us - we're not fixing it under a Mercedes Benz error". I called New Jersey and they said "You have a lot of miles, what do you expect?" Well I expect Mercedes to stand behind their mistakes. I finally found out that they were experimenting with various insulation formulations to make their wiring bio-degradable, and they apparently did insufficient testing on whether the insulation could last the life of the car under a hood of a car in the heat, moisture, oil and all. It could not. Mercedes has yet to admit to their error, and even my mechanic says he's personally replaced hundreds of these engine looms on the 1990 to 1995 300's and E-Class. I spent the $1500 to replace this wiring. It was so bad it would crumble to dust in your hands when you touched it. And, oh, by the way Mercedes, I expect a Mercedes to not be an old pile of junk at 100K miles.


National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), U.S.A.

Reports of M-B engine wiring harness failures


Make : MERCEDES BENZ
Model : E CLASS
Year : 1994
Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
ODI ID Number : 10026308
Date of Failure: June 15, 2002
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:WIRING
Summary: THE WIRING HARNESS FAILED WHILE CONSUMER WAS MAKING A HIGH SPEED MERGE ONTO THE FREEWAY CAUSING THE VEHICLE'S AUTOMATIC STABILITY CONTROL TO ENGAGE. THIS REDUCED THE ENGINE'S POWER TO APPROXIMATELY 20%, SLOWING THE CAR DOWN, ALMOST CAUSING A COLLISION. 1994, MERCEDES BENZ, 320.*AK


Make : MERCEDES BENZ
Model : E CLASS
Year : 1994
Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
ODI ID Number : 10025241 Date of Failure: July 1, 2003
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:WIRING:FRONT UNDERHOOD
Summary: THE ENGINE WIRING HARNESS ON MY 1994 MERCEDES-BENZ E320 IS CRACKED BECAUSE OF THE USE OF POOR WIRING INSULATION CAUSING MY CAR TO DIE IN THE MIDDLE OF DRIVING. TO RESTART IT, I HAVE TO COME TO A COMPLETE STOP, PUT THE SHIFTER GATE TO P, TURN THE KEY ALL THE WAY BACK, AND FINALLY RESTART IT. IT IS VERY DANGEROUS BECAUSE I NEVER KNOW WHEN IT WILL OCCUR, I HAVE ALMOST BEEN IN MANY ACCIDENTS BECUASE OF THIS PROBLEM. THE BENZ TECHS TOLD ME THAT THIS IS A VERY COMMON PROBLEM AND THAT MERCEDES-BENZ REFUSES TO MAKE IT A RECALL. *AK


Make : MERCEDES BENZ
Model : E CLASS
Year : 1994
Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
ODI ID Number : 10025560 Date of Failure: July 7, 2003
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:WIRING:FRONT UNDERHOOD
Summary: ON 5 SEPARATE OCCASIONS OVER THE PAST 4 MONTHS MY CAR HAS SUDDENLY CUT OUT WHILE DRIVING ON THE HIGHWAY AND CITY STREETS, ALL WITHOUT ANY PRIOR WARNING. THESE INCIDENTS RESULTED IN A SUDDEN LOSS OF MECHANICAL AND ELECTRICAL POWER, RESULTING IS POOR BRAKING AND STEERING. ON A PREVIOUS DEALER VISIT, THE CAR WAS INSPECTED AND SERVICED WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS. THIS CAR IS NOW AT THE DEALER HAVING THE WIRING HARNESS REPLACED AS A COST OF $1500 WITHOUT ANY GOOD WILL FROM MERCEDES BENZ. THIS IS CLEARLY A MANUFACTURING DEFECT AFFECTING A LARGE NUMBER OF VEHICLES, HOWEVER THE MANUFACTURER STILL APPEARS TO BE IGNORANT TO THE FACT. THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE ON THE INTERNET SUGGESTING THAT THIS IS AN ONGOING PROBLEM.*AK

Kestas

Where my NHTSA report? I filled one out over the summer, and have since urged others to do the same. Only when NHTSA gets a high enough volume of safety related complaint will they move for a recall.

It's absolutely rediculous to put an unproven part into production without thoroughly testing it, then stick the car owner with a ~$1000 repair bill that a car would not normally have.... and put the driver in danger in the meantime. The wiring harness of these cars WILL have to be replaced during the car's tenure.

Mr. Guy

Robot,

I think you have made a good choice with the w124. It's a great car and I think it will serve you well for many years. Like you, I found a very nice example for a great price. Since I have owned the car, I have had to replace the wiring harness, water pump, brakes/rotors, and tighten the area around the head gasket to prevent oil from leaking all the time. Anyway, with some repair and maintenance the E-320 is a great car that's well built and ages well.

Best,