unsobill

http://www.overboost.com/obs/product...id=4702&mode=1

CDP

They are good springs, but thats pretty expensive from that website.

CaliE320

Eibachs are ok. I wouldn't get them after trial & error. They're to soft you'll end up having camber problems and alignment issues. They barely give you a 1" drop if that. Make sure you don't just get springs, you have to upgrade to better sport shocks when you lower your W124. Go with H & R's or Vogtlands.
H & R's are a bit harsher Vogtlands are perfect coupled with Bilstein sports..
I've driven W124's with all 3 setups Vogtlands are the best.

~Cali

CDP

That was some valuable information CaliE320. thanks! Since im lowering my car next month sometime. I got a estimate and the people at the shop said they can get me those Vogtland springs for 199 and H&R's for 230 I believe.

Along with my new suspension, Bilstein Sports are of course going to be installed as well. I can't decide whether H&R or Vogtland now. So Eibach's are entirely out of the question?

Does anyone know why the prices of Bilstein has slightly increased?

CaliE320

Go Vogtlands !!! Eibachs are way out of the question.. I had them they suck. Like I said before is it just a coincidence that almost all the forum member with the Eibach set-up have some sort of camber and alignment issue?
besides that, you can barely tell your car is lowered with Eibachs. 1" is pushing it. H & R's are good but very harsh.. Vogtlands give the lowest drop, without being bouncy or stiff. Perfect coupled with Bilstein sports.Trust me on this learn from other people's mistakes..What shop are you going to may I ask? I can point you to one of my shops where all the Bnz members go, they're Benz specialist. Don't take your car to any rice shop.

~Cali

CDP

Sounds good Cali, I guess it will be a tough decision between H&R's and Vogtlands. Do you know exactly how low the Vogtlands will lower the car (dry weight). I wouldn't want it too low. I plan on either adding 18 or 17" wheels soon after the suspension is done. Therefore another factor to think about before I make up my mind.

I plan on taking my car to the wheel supply. I heard some good news from them and and some of my friends suggested them. How do you feel about them? With everything it should cost around 900-1000. Which isnt bad at all compared to other shops that gave me estimates.

Aaron124

You shouldn't worry too much about the ride height. MB sells spring shim pads which range in thickness from 8-23mm, for the purpose of adjusting ride height.

CaliE320

by adjusting your shims to compensate for the springs not being low enough, is why you get camber & alignment issues. Lower center of gravity adds more weight to Eibachs which already are softer then H & R's or Vogtlands. This makes your tires butterfly, the spring is not holding up the weight of the lowered car. Like I said before I don't go by what magazines or adds promise but I learn from trial and error from myself and others..In the end do whatever you want..

* Wheel Supply is your best bet, best prices and service around. That's where I go to get all my work done. Vogtlands although the lowest is the best spring when it comes to ride quality. You'll be fine with 17's or 18's just make sure you get the right offset and no wider then 8's. 45's for 17's and 40's for 18s on the tires.. Sander and the guys at Wheel Supply can help you out. It'll take about a good week or two of driving till your car springs settle in fully. Mine lowered a good 1/2 inch or more after driving.

~Cali

ashman

offset on the wheels is key.

I have Neuspeed springs (these are simply H&R but rebadged as neuspeed) I will be doindg the sport shocks sooner or later.

I've driven a w124 with H&R and bilstein sports and I liked it.

Never tried the eiback or vogtland, but I know plenty of people who werent happy with the eibachs.

AshMan

CDP

Thanks Cali & Ash.

Personal experience is always better than reading about the product and what not. What would I do without you guys on the board. I've been talking to Sander's from Wheel Supply via email and he's giving me pretty good prices and the lowest he can give me.

Eibachs are already out of the question, They are 30-40 bucks more expensive than H&R's too. So Cali, I take it you have the Vogtland's? What size wheels are you running. 1/2 drop doesn't seem like much. lol

I was reading up on Vogtland's earlier. Tough decision between the two though.

ksing44

I have Eibach springs and I do have some issues with the camber adjustments, but I’m not sure that everything you are saying adds up correctly.

If the Eibachs don’t lower the car as much as some of the other springs, then why would there be more camber issues?

If the Eibachs are too soft to support the car, then why don’t they lower the car more than the other springs?

It seems to be generally accepted that the ride height dictates the camber and that the lower you go the more negative the camber becomes.

About one inch lower

CaliE320

They don't lower the car more becuzz they only carry part of the burden of holding up the weight, the shocks carry the rest. You have tall HD Bilstein shocks that compensate for the soft springs. If you had shorter Bilstein shocks then of course your car would be lower. If you had a 2 player team and one player was only doing half his job the other would have to step up to the plate and carry the rest of the burden right? It would be tough and overbearing for that player to do both jobs. Make that comparison with that and your Eibach set-up. Especially when it's advised that you go with shorter stiffer sport shocks when you add SHORTER lowered springs. It's a better combo that fits.It's made especially for that purpose. I DON"T understand the confusion here. Especially when it's plain logic. Shorter springs go with SHORTER STIFFER shocks..Shorter springs although will work with tall(reg)shocks is not advised.Especially when you add weak soft springs like Eibachs..
I can't break it down to you in scientific formulas but obviously I know what works and what doesn't.

*Chris - Vogtlands coupled with Bilstein Sports should lower your car 2" or more. Of course give and take depending on you and the shim size that you're going to go with. I meant after your car gets lowered expect the springs to settle in and lower the car an additional 1/2" with driving.
You have to experience driving all 3 set-ups to really appreciate the difference. It's like day & nite, Eibachs again too soft & mushie, I drove my friend's H & R combo & liked it's sportiness, but after experiencing my Vogtland set-up you can tell H & R was a tad harder and harsher ride. Vogtland is sporty without the harshness.. I'm running 18x8.5 I wouldn't advise getting anything deeper then 18x8's though. I'm running this set-up strictly for show.

~Cali

ksing44

First I want to say that I am certainly not an expert and I am still trying to understand all of this myself.

I think it is true that I should have probably purchased the Sport shocks. I was told, however, that HDs would be fine since the Eibach springs only lowered the car about an inch. I was actually trying to avoid the complications that arise when you make more dramatic changes. I was told that the Sports are only essential when you make more significant changes in the ride height.

I read that shocks have the same performance over the entire range of travel. They are dampers that resist movement in either direction. They are not springs that increase resistance with compression. I have to say, however, that I have read quite a number of comments saying that new HD shocks slightly increased the ride heights of some vehicles when they were substituted for old worn out shocks. I was actually starting to think that the HD shocks do help to support the car. I was starting to think that maybe the subtle lift increases the comfort of the spring/shock system by keeping the progressive springs in a more supple less compressed condition until the vehicle is pushed hard into a turn. My car is relatively comfortable, but it becomes very stable when I push it down a winding country road. It is much more stable than the OEM set-up.

I just don’t quite understand your reasoning, except that I do understand that you tried some different set-ups and you are happy with what you have now.

CDP

Loved the debate. Anyways, thanks for the information again Cali, Doesn't 2" or more with the Bilstein Sports with Vogtlands seem too low? Especially with 18" in the future. So what is this Shim size you currently speak of? lol I don't feel like I like the look of the Vogtland springs and how they give the "wedge" look. I would like something the same on all four corners, but you have Vogtlands right? Do you have a picture that I can see? A buddy of mine has Bilstein's with Vogtlands, I should ask him to test out his car and see if I like them when my headlights come in. In my opinion, I would like a sporty suspension which is responsive of course, I'm sure both Vogtland & H&R can provide that. Do you know how much H&R lowers our car? I don't want to trust the website with what it says.

Diesel

Chris,

I have the Eibach Prokit, Koni adjustable springs, and KMAC camber bushings. This is a really good setup, comfortable ride, excellent handling. If you look up some old threads, you will find that Ksing44 has written a lot on the topic.
Good luck with lowering your car, it makes such a visual impact, and you will be happy with the ride too.

ashman

With my H$R springs and the thickest rear pads (3 bump as they are called), my rear wheel well is just about sitting on the tire. I cant even get my pinky in there.

And as far as I know the H&R's are a 1.7" drop. or maybe 1.3" If I could raise my car say half an inch I would so do it, but my mechanic says I can;t because if I put in an extra spring pad, the spring could jump out and that would be really bad, so I am going to have to flare out the rear fenders a bit.

I will get to that later when I can. for now, I will just wait for my tires to wear out, then go with some 215's instead of 225s and they are a bit less wide and should help a lot with the rubbing I have on dips, but sport shocks should help too.

If you want a good setup which wont lower the car too much, and will be super comfortable but handle great, look intot he mercedes sportline springs, shocks, swaybars and bushings. It is a great setup. I have driven a car witht he full sportline setup, and it rode and handled great.

Another thing to consider is doing the sportline swaybars along with the bushings and using H&R and bilstein sport or whatever springs you decide on vigtland or eibach.

The sportline swaybars are very nice, fairly thick, definately thicker than stock, and the bushings really make a difference.

There is a full wirteup of it on mercedesshop. http://www.mercedesshop.com/sportline_suspension.htm

AshMan

CDP

Hey Guys,

Ashman, I checked out that MB Sportline suspension awhile ago, I don't think I am too fond about it. So I think it's out of the question.

Honestly, the big decision now is between H&R's and Vogtlands. I continued to read up more about Vogtlands and they seem pretty good and I trust some of your input about them as well. So what are these front and rear pads we speak of? Sorry, I'm trying to get more familiar with the suspension set up of our cars.

I will most likely get Sway bars & bushings in the near future (so count on me to buy you guys when the time comes) when I have more $$$ to spend. Right now I calculated how much I could spend and it's simply just for the springs, shocks and installation fee's. Anyways, it's not a must to replace the bushings right, just a recommendation.

Anyways, I'm slightly worried about camber issues after I lower my car. Would that be a problem and what would have to be done if there is, cost wise and parts if that happens to be the case.

AndreNY

i have eibach's on my car with bilstein sports and have no camber issues whatsoever, remember one thing it also depends on how good your alignment is done once you change the springs and shocks. For you cali guys i guess going with H&R and Vogtlands is fine but for us Northeast guys Eibach is the perfect spring dues to the *****ty roads

CaliE320

Chris,

By wedge look if you mean the front being lower then the back, that's going to be normal with any spring set-up you get. It's a matter of leveling it out with the correct combo of spring pads. The Wheel Supply can help you with that.My car is now leveled, fine tuning to a new suspension and rim tire set-up is normal.Those pics are a lil old, I've done alot to the car since then. Now keep in mind camber issues
can be intensified when you lower if you already have existing camber /alignment problems. Worn bushings, tired front end components etc so don't blame it on the lowering. Alignment can be neccessary after lowering that's normal, but it varies from car to car. I didn't need one. 2" isn't alot if you measure how big the existing wheel gap is. I'm running 18's and I still have almost 2finger wheel gap.No rubbing or hitting what so ever. It's not how low you should be worried about it's the correct offset , depth and tire size on those 18's you're planning on getting. Keep in mind Alon is running a crazy offset. He made it work and it looks great but it's not the norm. Just like they said you can't run anything deeper then 8's I'm running 18x8.5's no problem.

~Cali

CaliE320

Read the above posts, you're probably not getting camber issues because you're running Eibachs with Bilstein sports. Part of the issue was coupling Eibachs an already soft shorter spring with tall shocks like Bilstein HD or comfies..Which is not advised......I don't know about how better the roads are here then there. Going to work after the recent storms is like driving through a mine field of pot-holes.

~Cali

CDP

Cali,

I didn't know that other spring's give the wedge look as well. I thought it was only Vogtland that did such a thing. So since I would want the same height all the way around, adjusting spring pad size would be the answer? I hope Wheel Supply can offer these so I don't have to bother to go through MB and order whatever I need to.

As of right now, my alignment is fine and lets hope that after I lower my car it will remain to be fine. I was just worried about camber issues and if I needed to buy a camber adjustment kit or something to fix it. I have a buddy who can give me a free alignment anyways. Most likely, I will purchase bushings all around sometime during the summer. It's not really necessary right now right?

I agree with that you said about 2" is nothing at all. My wheel gap right now is somewhere over 2". I could only imagine how nice it would look.

Thanks so much for your help lately cali, ashman and whoever else. I appreciate all of your patience to help me out with my stupid questions.

AndreNY

i had the comforts before the sports and camber was the same, the shock does not play a role in camber, it's the sprng, the lower you go the more negative camber you will have.

And about roads, if you never been to NYC you cannot even imagine how it is, let alon compare. Even thou you guys had a big storm you still have far better roads then us, if you guys had hurricans, volcanos and earthquakes all at the same time, you would still have better roads then us

ksing44

Based on everything I have read about these W124s, I have to agree with this statement.

From the earlier conversation, maybe the term “issue” was the problem. Maybe some guys don’t mind running with negative 3 for rear camber. My mechanic sent me on my way with negative three. When I called back to ask about it, he told me the rear wasn’t adjustable so that was it. I educated myself about it and decided to get the K-MAC bushings. Now I have an adjustable rear camber. I think most reasonable people would agree that you should not run more negative than negative 2.

I am also still planning to get camber arms from “speedybenz”, just so I can have even more adjustability and as insurance in case anything goes wrong with K-MAC bushings.

As I remember, the front specification for the “sport suspension” allows for negative 1.3 camber in the front, which is adjustable to some extent. Even in the front, however, you may not be able to adjust to within specifications if you SLAM your W124. It might look real cool , but it could cause some “issues”.

ksing44

[QUOTE=ChrisDPham]
I didn't know that other spring's give the wedge look as well.
QUOTE]

As for the “wedge look”, you can adjust the ride height with the spring pads. They come in 1-bump (8mm), 2-bump (13mm), 3-bump (18mm), and 4-bump (23mm) sizes. I read that because of the geometry of the suspension, the 5mm difference in the pad translates to about 7mm or 8mm at the fender lip, although I never actually tested that theory. As I recall, the AMG modification literature indicates that the 5mm difference in the spring pad can translate to a 9mm difference at the fender lip.

My Eibach springs dropped the rear of the car much more than the front, when I started with the 1-bump pads at all four corners. I decided to use 1-bump in the front and 3-bump in the rear, although I constantly think about going to just a 1-bump difference from front to rear. The back of my car could come down just a bit, but I am afraid of the broken down rear end look, that you see on some older cars. In general, I think most guys with the Eibach springs would be happy if they used 1-bump front and 2-bump rear. If you have to pay a mechanic, it isn’t cheap to keep playing with the spring pads. You also have to realign the car after the switch, which may add another $100.00 US, depending on the shop.

CDP

Thanks for all the help everyone, I called up the Wheel Supply and put in the order today.

Bilstein Sport Shocks with Vogtland Springs.

Wish my luck.