Amg Alloys
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Amg Alloys
I have purchased 4 x 8J x 18 ET31 for my W210 320 CDI
The back wheels fit fine with the original bolts. However,\the front ones are causing me a few grey hair !!!
Merc tell me that the original bolts are the ones that i need, however, the bolts get fully tightened but the front wheels are still loose. Can someone please help.
The back wheels fit fine with the original bolts. However,\the front ones are causing me a few grey hair !!!
Merc tell me that the original bolts are the ones that i need, however, the bolts get fully tightened but the front wheels are still loose. Can someone please help.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,537
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From: Arizona, USA
W205 C300
Are these wheels aftermarket AMG look alikes? If so, the bolt holes may be deaper than the stock wheel requiring shorter bolts. Some aftermarket companys make a wheel that will fit a Mercedes and a VW Passat. The VW has shorter bolts so they make them to fit with the shorter ones. One test in the back is to count how many turns you get on the bolts when you are installing them. If it is more than 6, then you should use shorter ones in back too or you could damage the parking brakes.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 462
Likes: 3
From: By the City by the Bay, CA
2001 E320 (210.065), Brilliant Silver; 2002 Ducati ST-2, Arrest-me Red
Changing MBZ rims...not fun
Hi, Azram.
I can sympathize. I recently put 2004 E-rims on my 2001 E and it was a real pain finding the right bolts, so this is a 2-part message.
First, make 110% sure that the rears are NOT hitting anything. It's very possible that your bolts are simply too long and you've got plenty of threaded shaft sticking through the hub, which may cause significant damage and also create a hazardous situation.
Second, my guess is you need ALL new bolts, not just for the front (what's possibly happening up there is that the bolts are extending through the hub and bottoming out against something which hopefully hasn't been damaged in this process). While MBZ has maintained the 5x112 pattern for an eon, the material thickness of the wheels has changed from time to time, among other things, which is what you're running into.
Thus, this is the basic process. Step 1: Take one of your original wheels and put one original bolt through it. Using a metric ruler, measure the amount of thread coming through the inside of the wheel (i.e., the amount that can thread into the hub). This can be tricky because some of the wheels have depressions between each of the thru-mounting surfaces, and you want to make sure you're not measuring at one of the depression points. Basically, if you're right next to the bolt you should be okay.
Step 2: Now put one of those original bolts in one of the AMG wheels and you'll see that it extends much further from the wheel surface. If your original bolts have unthreaded shanks on them, and that is extending through to the inside of the wheel, then you'll need a shorter shank length as well.
Step 3 is the hard part, you have to find a new bolt that will give you the proper extension inside the wheel (and obviously accounting for any difference in shank length). Length and shank issues aside, if you have a W210 chassis your lug bolts will be 12Mx1.5 thread pitch. Prestigewheel.com has bolts for just about all of these, with drawings and measurements; note that if the AMGs are genuine as the other post noted and not aftermarket knockoffs you'll definitely want Ball Seats. If they're aftermarket, you'll have to determine if they're shouldered/flat, conical or ball seat. Prestige's lug bolts are quality chrome-plated so they're more expensive than some others, but if your AMGs are chrome they'll look nicer down in the hole.
If you have a good dealer - perhaps not the one who told you they're the same bolts - the best advice I can give you is to toss the AMG's in the car and take it all there and let them do the swap for you. It will probably cost you more (might not, since dealers don't have chrome bolts!), but you'll be saved the headache and in the event something goes wrong, they'll be responsible.
FYI, if you want to protect your AMG investment, Gorilla makes great locks for the MBZ ball-seat lug bolts. Brandsport Automotive has them for a good price, too, although they're slow to ship at times.
Good luck, my fellow benzite.
Greg
I can sympathize. I recently put 2004 E-rims on my 2001 E and it was a real pain finding the right bolts, so this is a 2-part message.
First, make 110% sure that the rears are NOT hitting anything. It's very possible that your bolts are simply too long and you've got plenty of threaded shaft sticking through the hub, which may cause significant damage and also create a hazardous situation.
Second, my guess is you need ALL new bolts, not just for the front (what's possibly happening up there is that the bolts are extending through the hub and bottoming out against something which hopefully hasn't been damaged in this process). While MBZ has maintained the 5x112 pattern for an eon, the material thickness of the wheels has changed from time to time, among other things, which is what you're running into.
Thus, this is the basic process. Step 1: Take one of your original wheels and put one original bolt through it. Using a metric ruler, measure the amount of thread coming through the inside of the wheel (i.e., the amount that can thread into the hub). This can be tricky because some of the wheels have depressions between each of the thru-mounting surfaces, and you want to make sure you're not measuring at one of the depression points. Basically, if you're right next to the bolt you should be okay.
Step 2: Now put one of those original bolts in one of the AMG wheels and you'll see that it extends much further from the wheel surface. If your original bolts have unthreaded shanks on them, and that is extending through to the inside of the wheel, then you'll need a shorter shank length as well.
Step 3 is the hard part, you have to find a new bolt that will give you the proper extension inside the wheel (and obviously accounting for any difference in shank length). Length and shank issues aside, if you have a W210 chassis your lug bolts will be 12Mx1.5 thread pitch. Prestigewheel.com has bolts for just about all of these, with drawings and measurements; note that if the AMGs are genuine as the other post noted and not aftermarket knockoffs you'll definitely want Ball Seats. If they're aftermarket, you'll have to determine if they're shouldered/flat, conical or ball seat. Prestige's lug bolts are quality chrome-plated so they're more expensive than some others, but if your AMGs are chrome they'll look nicer down in the hole.
If you have a good dealer - perhaps not the one who told you they're the same bolts - the best advice I can give you is to toss the AMG's in the car and take it all there and let them do the swap for you. It will probably cost you more (might not, since dealers don't have chrome bolts!), but you'll be saved the headache and in the event something goes wrong, they'll be responsible.
FYI, if you want to protect your AMG investment, Gorilla makes great locks for the MBZ ball-seat lug bolts. Brandsport Automotive has them for a good price, too, although they're slow to ship at times.
Good luck, my fellow benzite.
Greg
Last edited by Gregs210; Mar 21, 2005 at 07:29 PM. Reason: Clarification
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,169
Likes: 2
From: HK (but constantly travelling)
98 W210 Advantgarde
Originally Posted by Gregs210
Hi, Azram.
I can sympathize. I recently put 2004 E-rims on my 2001 E and it was a real pain finding the right bolts, so this is a 2-part message.
First, make 110% sure that the rears are NOT hitting anything. It's very possible that your bolts are simply too long and you've got plenty of threaded shaft sticking through the hub, which may cause significant damage and also create a hazardous situation.
Second, my guess is you need ALL new bolts, not just for the front (what's possibly happening up there is that the bolts are extending through the hub and bottoming out against something which hopefully hasn't been damaged in this process). While MBZ has maintained the 5x112 pattern for an eon, the material thickness of the wheels has changed from time to time, among other things, which is what you're running into.
Thus, this is the basic process. Step 1: Take one of your original wheels and put one original bolt through it. Using a metric ruler, measure the amount of thread coming through the inside of the wheel (i.e., the amount that can thread into the hub). This can be tricky because some of the wheels have depressions between each of the thru-mounting surfaces, and you want to make sure you're not measuring at one of the depression points. Basically, if you're right next to the bolt you should be okay.
Step 2: Now put one of those original bolts in one of the AMG wheels and you'll see that it extends much further from the wheel surface. If your original bolts have unthreaded shanks on them, and that is extending through to the inside of the wheel, then you'll need a shorter shank length as well.
Step 3 is the hard part, you have to find a new bolt that will give you the proper extension inside the wheel (and obviously accounting for any difference in shank length). Length and shank issues aside, if you have a W210 chassis your lug bolts will be 12Mx1.5 thread pitch. Prestigewheel.com has bolts for just about all of these, with drawings and measurements; note that if the AMGs are genuine as the other post noted and not aftermarket knockoffs you'll definitely want Ball Seats. If they're aftermarket, you'll have to determine if they're shouldered/flat, conical or ball seat. Prestige's lug bolts are quality chrome-plated so they're more expensive than some others, but if your AMGs are chrome they'll look nicer down in the hole.
If you have a good dealer - perhaps not the one who told you they're the same bolts - the best advice I can give you is to toss the AMG's in the car and take it all there and let them do the swap for you. It will probably cost you more (might not, since dealers don't have chrome bolts!), but you'll be saved the headache and in the event something goes wrong, they'll be responsible.
FYI, if you want to protect your AMG investment, Gorilla makes great locks for the MBZ ball-seat lug bolts. Brandsport Automotive has them for a good price, too, although they're slow to ship at times.
Good luck, my fellow benzite.
Greg
I can sympathize. I recently put 2004 E-rims on my 2001 E and it was a real pain finding the right bolts, so this is a 2-part message.
First, make 110% sure that the rears are NOT hitting anything. It's very possible that your bolts are simply too long and you've got plenty of threaded shaft sticking through the hub, which may cause significant damage and also create a hazardous situation.
Second, my guess is you need ALL new bolts, not just for the front (what's possibly happening up there is that the bolts are extending through the hub and bottoming out against something which hopefully hasn't been damaged in this process). While MBZ has maintained the 5x112 pattern for an eon, the material thickness of the wheels has changed from time to time, among other things, which is what you're running into.
Thus, this is the basic process. Step 1: Take one of your original wheels and put one original bolt through it. Using a metric ruler, measure the amount of thread coming through the inside of the wheel (i.e., the amount that can thread into the hub). This can be tricky because some of the wheels have depressions between each of the thru-mounting surfaces, and you want to make sure you're not measuring at one of the depression points. Basically, if you're right next to the bolt you should be okay.
Step 2: Now put one of those original bolts in one of the AMG wheels and you'll see that it extends much further from the wheel surface. If your original bolts have unthreaded shanks on them, and that is extending through to the inside of the wheel, then you'll need a shorter shank length as well.
Step 3 is the hard part, you have to find a new bolt that will give you the proper extension inside the wheel (and obviously accounting for any difference in shank length). Length and shank issues aside, if you have a W210 chassis your lug bolts will be 12Mx1.5 thread pitch. Prestigewheel.com has bolts for just about all of these, with drawings and measurements; note that if the AMGs are genuine as the other post noted and not aftermarket knockoffs you'll definitely want Ball Seats. If they're aftermarket, you'll have to determine if they're shouldered/flat, conical or ball seat. Prestige's lug bolts are quality chrome-plated so they're more expensive than some others, but if your AMGs are chrome they'll look nicer down in the hole.
If you have a good dealer - perhaps not the one who told you they're the same bolts - the best advice I can give you is to toss the AMG's in the car and take it all there and let them do the swap for you. It will probably cost you more (might not, since dealers don't have chrome bolts!), but you'll be saved the headache and in the event something goes wrong, they'll be responsible.
FYI, if you want to protect your AMG investment, Gorilla makes great locks for the MBZ ball-seat lug bolts. Brandsport Automotive has them for a good price, too, although they're slow to ship at times.
Good luck, my fellow benzite.
Greg
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 462
Likes: 3
From: By the City by the Bay, CA
2001 E320 (210.065), Brilliant Silver; 2002 Ducati ST-2, Arrest-me Red
Originally Posted by Whitey
Greg, I totally agree with what you're saying but I hope you have custom 12mm bolts that sit right in those 14mm holes on your W211 wheels.......
I feel privileged to get a response from a fanatic!!
Seriously, I appreciate the concern. My understanding is that since they're both ball seats, they would center around the bolt and I didn't need to worry about it.
It seems sort of strange to me, but the ball seat hits the wheel the same whether they're 12 or 14.
So far they've maintained torque and when I have them off in a couple of weeks to do the brakes I'll inspect them closely for any stress cracks, etc.
I just tossed up a post with before and after pics, let me know what you think.
Yours, of course, well, wow.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,169
Likes: 2
From: HK (but constantly travelling)
98 W210 Advantgarde
Originally Posted by Gregs210
Hi, Whitey.
I feel privileged to get a response from a fanatic!!
Seriously, I appreciate the concern. My understanding is that since they're both ball seats, they would center around the bolt and I didn't need to worry about it.
It seems sort of strange to me, but the ball seat hits the wheel the same whether they're 12 or 14.
So far they've maintained torque and when I have them off in a couple of weeks to do the brakes I'll inspect them closely for any stress cracks, etc.
I just tossed up a post with before and after pics, let me know what you think.
Yours, of course, well, wow.
I feel privileged to get a response from a fanatic!!
Seriously, I appreciate the concern. My understanding is that since they're both ball seats, they would center around the bolt and I didn't need to worry about it.
It seems sort of strange to me, but the ball seat hits the wheel the same whether they're 12 or 14.
So far they've maintained torque and when I have them off in a couple of weeks to do the brakes I'll inspect them closely for any stress cracks, etc.
I just tossed up a post with before and after pics, let me know what you think.
Yours, of course, well, wow.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 462
Likes: 3
From: By the City by the Bay, CA
2001 E320 (210.065), Brilliant Silver; 2002 Ducati ST-2, Arrest-me Red
Originally Posted by Whitey
No way...I've just tried too many wheels. If u compare the 12 and 14mm bolts, the depth and curvature of the ball seat are different. If you use a 12mm bolt in a 14mm hole, the surface area in contact will not exactly sit flush unless u mod the bolt a bit or have custom bolts...sure they will center but you will risk loosening over time becuase tehre is less friction. I'd posted a pic of the bolts before - that will demostrate what I'm saying...can't find it....
I have gone a little over 1,000 miles since the swap and have rechecked the torque both hot and cold a few times and have found no loosening, but as I say I'll take another hard look at it.
And yet another reason to distrust the dealer; when I was looking for bolts they didn't say a word about this, not that they were any help at all.
There's a guy on benzworld that got some custom ones so I'll check with him to see where he got them.
Thanks again,
Greg
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,169
Likes: 2
From: HK (but constantly travelling)
98 W210 Advantgarde
Here you go (12mm on the left) - see how the 12mm ball requires a deeper hole? If you fit that into the shallower 14mm ball seat hole, your bolts will not biting onto the wheel as much as it was intended. If you fail to find custom bolts, u can machine off a little from the narrow part of the ball (the top of the ball, if you can call it that) to allow the wider part to sit into the hole properly - hope it makes sense...your new wheels are a marked improvement on the OEMs BTW 
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