Wheel idea
01-18-2007, 11:57 AM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Study Hard Because This Will Be On The Pop Quiz!
"Everyone says..." is not evidence or logic or proof of any sort. If somebody had stepped forward with experience, that would have been another deal all together, but nobody has. All I see is one guy saying he will try it out and a lot of responses saying "don't do it, it won't work" based on nothing.
Do you know for a fact that the hubs are different sizes? If the Mustang wheel hub is bigger - I don't think it really matters (it may be hard to get the wheel on, but once on it should be fine). As for the bolt pattern, I have put a Mustang wheels on a Camry as a spare once. I don't think the idea of putting it on the MB is too far fetched.
Do you know for a fact that the hubs are different sizes? If the Mustang wheel hub is bigger - I don't think it really matters (it may be hard to get the wheel on, but once on it should be fine). As for the bolt pattern, I have put a Mustang wheels on a Camry as a spare once. I don't think the idea of putting it on the MB is too far fetched.
This is not a discussion about whether a freaking Mustang wheel fits on a freaking Camry because they both use the same damn bolt pattern, lugs and perhaps similar offset. The hub is larger on the Mustang rim so it covers the Camry hub but the cars weight would be resting on the lugs instead of the hub like it should. That Camry rim would eventually vibrate because it would be moving around not being centered. Larger hubs fits over smaller. If you tried to put a Camry rim on a Mustang it would not fit because the hub is smaller and smaller does not fit over larger.
AGAIN! It will not work properly because of 1) Bolt Pattern, 2) Hub Size 3) offset and 4) Lug issue. And yes I know for a fact what the hub sizes are.
WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED TO KNOW TO CONCEDE THAT IT WILL NOT WORK?!
Last edited by E55 KEV; 01-18-2007 at 12:05 PM.
01-18-2007, 12:02 PM
#27
okay, nothing is more logical than mathematics, so here's a formula:
5x114.3 != 5x112
the mustang wheel will fit over the hub of the benz because it has a bigger center bore, but the holes will not line up with the lugs, so the wheel won't fit. it may sound like only a few millimeters off, but you have that same distance multiplied by 5 for the distance between each hole.
01-18-2007, 12:23 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 35 Likes
on
30 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
that's because the mustang and camry have the same bolt pattern. the mustang center bore is 70.5, the camry is 60.1, so the wheel will fit. probably vibrate like a mug at speed, but it will fit.
okay, nothing is more logical than mathematics, so here's a formula:
5x114.3 != 5x112
the mustang wheel will fit over the hub of the benz because it has a bigger center bore, but the holes will not line up with the lugs, so the wheel won't fit. it may sound like only a few millimeters off, but you have that same distance multiplied by 5 for the distance between each hole.
okay, nothing is more logical than mathematics, so here's a formula:
5x114.3 != 5x112
the mustang wheel will fit over the hub of the benz because it has a bigger center bore, but the holes will not line up with the lugs, so the wheel won't fit. it may sound like only a few millimeters off, but you have that same distance multiplied by 5 for the distance between each hole.
Fwiw, I bolted a mustang wheel to my audi, which has the 112mm spacing. Yes it rested on the lugs, not the hub, which i won't do, but it may just be the matter of getting a hub spacer.
So, even if you swear up and down that it won't work, I'll put the car up, and see what, if anything, can be done.
01-18-2007, 12:35 PM
#30
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'04 Cobra & '04 S430
You still have not provided any proof of anything. Aside from the hubs being different sizes - do you know for a fact that the Mustang hub is smaller than the MB hub? Different sizes doesn't mean it won't fit.
The Camry was used merely as an example in the same way that the BMW was used a few comments earlier. The common factor was that one was being placed on a Mustang and in the other that a Mustang wheel was being used on a Toyota.
I fully understand the concept of offset/bolt pattern/hub size/ and lug issues. The offset is wrong - but it doesn't mean it won't fit. In this case it just needs to clear the calipers and the see what else it does or doesn't clear from there. New lugs would be needed - big deal - new lugs would be needed regardless of what he did.
On the bolt pattern though - after researching a bit more I will concede that it is off by 2.3mm. I didn't figure that the wheel manufactures would make wheels with such a slight difference as oppossed to standardizing them patterns a little more.
I guess I'm more of a visual person and need to try/see what does and doesn't work when specs are very close.
The Camry was used merely as an example in the same way that the BMW was used a few comments earlier. The common factor was that one was being placed on a Mustang and in the other that a Mustang wheel was being used on a Toyota.
I fully understand the concept of offset/bolt pattern/hub size/ and lug issues. The offset is wrong - but it doesn't mean it won't fit. In this case it just needs to clear the calipers and the see what else it does or doesn't clear from there. New lugs would be needed - big deal - new lugs would be needed regardless of what he did.
On the bolt pattern though - after researching a bit more I will concede that it is off by 2.3mm. I didn't figure that the wheel manufactures would make wheels with such a slight difference as oppossed to standardizing them patterns a little more.
I guess I'm more of a visual person and need to try/see what does and doesn't work when specs are very close.
01-18-2007, 01:49 PM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 35 Likes
on
30 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
66.6mm huh? hmm.
btw, the mustang has very large lug nut holes, that neck down to a small hole that the stud (mustangs have studs) go through. Therefore, It may be an issue of tig'ing up the small hole, and redrilling the pattern.
We'll see what happens on saturday.
btw, the mustang has very large lug nut holes, that neck down to a small hole that the stud (mustangs have studs) go through. Therefore, It may be an issue of tig'ing up the small hole, and redrilling the pattern.
We'll see what happens on saturday.
01-18-2007, 05:10 PM
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
Back to the hub issue. I doubt anyone makes a centering ring to reduce the hub down to 66.56 from 70.6. Without a proper centering ring the rims will not be hub centric but lug centric. It would be impossible to center the wheels causing vibrations and stress break the lugs from the weight of the car.
Last edited by E55 KEV; 01-18-2007 at 05:12 PM.
01-19-2007, 06:46 PM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
I agree with E. each lug, hub....any contact point is designed and factored
in to become load bearing...to some degree. anytime you vary from this,
you potentially weaken the structural integrity of the original design. the
more you do, the bigger the gamble. the hub is a crucial part of this load
bearing feature and should be maintained...properly so...at all cost and not
jury (gerry, jerry?) rigged.
in to become load bearing...to some degree. anytime you vary from this,
you potentially weaken the structural integrity of the original design. the
more you do, the bigger the gamble. the hub is a crucial part of this load
bearing feature and should be maintained...properly so...at all cost and not
jury (gerry, jerry?) rigged.
01-26-2007, 08:30 PM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
02-13-2007, 09:52 AM
#42
Senior Member
Curious about your signature - why should you have bought a lexus? Honest question; i've never driven the LS430 or anything else Lexus for that matter, but I owned a 2000 E430 and it was such a sweet ride.
02-13-2007, 10:32 AM
#43
Senior Member
02-13-2007, 12:32 PM
#45
Senior Member
hm...squeaky steering and one rattle is enough to frustrate you that much huh? i like the feel of the engine, the way the car performs, etc. almost every used car will eventually have a rattle or two no matter how well it's built. both of the w210's i've owned have had slightly squeaky steering; it just doesn't bother me all that much...i just like the way these are built overall and how they drive!
02-13-2007, 01:28 PM
#46
Senior Member
![[180]'s Avatar](data:image/svg+xml;utf8,<svg xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' viewBox='0 0 50 50'><circle class='avatar-circle-default' fill='%234f9e60' cx='25px' cy='25px' r='20px'></circle><text class='avatar-text-default' x='49%' y='53%' fill='white' text-anchor='middle' alignment-baseline='middle'>[</text></svg>)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2004 E55 AMG
Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents...
why is everyone so concerned about hubcentricity? that is not an issue if you have lugcentric nuts.
That is if you tighten the wheel whilst it's off the ground, instead of putting the weight of the car on the lugs first (like I see so many people doing).
Hubcentric rings are used only to center the rim, it doesn't actually take any weight once the car's back on the ground.
why is everyone so concerned about hubcentricity? that is not an issue if you have lugcentric nuts.
That is if you tighten the wheel whilst it's off the ground, instead of putting the weight of the car on the lugs first (like I see so many people doing).
Hubcentric rings are used only to center the rim, it doesn't actually take any weight once the car's back on the ground.
Last edited by [180]; 02-13-2007 at 01:33 PM.
02-13-2007, 01:38 PM
#47
it is my understanding that with mercedes the hub actually takes most if not all the weight. if your wheel is not hubcentric, the lug bolts have to take the weight of the entire car, rather than the hub, and that is why the wheels will vibrate and shimmy at speed.you can surely bolt on wheels and have the lugs alone holding them on and in place, but there's a reason why it is not recomended. keep in mind the fact the cars have lug bolts, and not nuts
02-13-2007, 01:53 PM
#48
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Henrico, Virginia
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 50 Likes
on
39 Posts
2014 ML350 4Matic
Using the hub to center the wheel is the most reliable, accurate way the ensure the wheel runs true. Centering on the lugs is less relaible and can lead to oddball vibrations that cannot be cured with balancing.
02-13-2007, 02:17 PM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2004 E55 AMG
it is my understanding that with mercedes the hub actually takes most if not all the weight. if your wheel is not hubcentric, the lug bolts have to take the weight of the entire car, rather than the hub, and that is why the wheels will vibrate and shimmy at speed.you can surely bolt on wheels and have the lugs alone holding them on and in place, but there's a reason why it is not recomended. keep in mind the fact the cars have lug bolts, and not nuts
However - on all other cars that use studs and lug nuts, I have found hubcentric rings to be somewhat optional... although I personally use them (just as an extra measure of safety), I would also have no problems driving around without them.
I will disagree about the lug bolts/studs/nuts holding the weight without hubcentric rings though, when you think about it - the weight of the car is not resting on the hubcentric rings, nor are they resting on the lugnuts... once the nuts are tightened down, the weight of the car is transferred from the hub to the rotor to the rim, and the point that takes the weight of the car is actually the mating surface between the rotor and the rim; the lugnuts are only there to hold them together. (not a great explaination but I'm sure you get the picture.)
I should also add, if installing wheels via the lugcentric method, it's best to do three things.
1) have the wheels off the ground
2) tighten nuts in a star pattern
3) rotate the wheel whilst tightening the nuts; ie. tighten a little bit, then rotate the wheel
this will ensure you don't bend the studs into the nuts, but rather will have the wheel slowly seat onto the nuts.
Yes, it does take a bit more effort and care to put wheels on this way but this method is what I personally use, with or without hub rings, and I've never had a vibration or shimmy.
Last edited by [180]; 02-13-2007 at 02:27 PM.
02-13-2007, 04:26 PM
#50
Senior Member
hm...squeaky steering and one rattle is enough to frustrate you that much huh? i like the feel of the engine, the way the car performs, etc. almost every used car will eventually have a rattle or two no matter how well it's built. both of the w210's i've owned have had slightly squeaky steering; it just doesn't bother me all that much...i just like the way these are built overall and how they drive!
