amgqmp1

So, the real negative with buying an E420 is that you can play in threads like this on the 'net...unless you're into driving around in an old mans car ripping up expensive tires (illegally) on public streets. Seems like a cheap trade-off to me...as I wander off wondering what the conversations are like in the land of SL600s...

Quadcammer

sounds like you enjoy beating the **** out of your automobiles.

why buy something nice just to trash it?

1. A hyundai doesn't have a limited slip differential, so It most certainly was not smoking both tires. Not to mention, they were about 165mm in width.

2. Im sure a 420 could do a burnout. But it wouldn't be terribly impressive, and once you cook the tranny, im sure you'll enjoy the pleasure of dropping a couple grand into that thing.

azurE430

I don't know of a car outside of a "nas car" that's designed to do burnoffs. If I were you I would get something with 14 inch tires because they are cheaper and could afford to burn a pair out in one night. Who cares what kind of car it is or if they all look the same ???.......when it comes to burnoffs its all about the white cloud..... If you really want to impress your friends go bigtime and throw down some bleach before engaging in a burnoff. This will increase the smoke bigtime!.....if you're lucky someone will call the fire department and report that they think a major fire is in progress! Get some line locks and then you won't have to worry about holding the brakes......but what ever its worth....when I was your age what was between a girls thighs was a important part of my life....not fogging my tires. When was the last time you checked a to see if you had all your priorities in line?......and don't tell me your only interested in a sausage fest! .....Mercedes owners don't go there........I hope......well maybe the SLK owners

steve420

lmao! why do you think im choosing the w210? girls know that its a mercedes and they also know that its expensive. chicks dig guys with money. and this is probably one of the most unassuming cars to pull off a big old smoky burn out. i dont want to just show off, a lot of cars around here can smoke the tires, i want people jaws to hit the ground when they see a big old mercedes with a cloud behind it. thats what im after. o and btw, we consider bleach cheating around here. *****'s use bleach cuz they cant get the tires going under the cars own power and they need help. and after i did a burnout in my hyundai, i looked back and when the smoke settled i saw 2 marks not 1. if a hyundai can do one, im pretty damn sure a mercedes can.

Quadcammer

I give up.

go buy your mercedes and do burnouts every minute of the day.

I'll wait to see the post on here about dead trannys, rears, etc.

steve420

wow your helpful! all i wanted to know was what would i have to do to get my car healthy enough to were it can handle the stress of a burnout.

Quadcammer

and my answer was not to do them.

Every once in a long while, ok fine, but the car was not designed to be used in such a way. The tranny is designed for smooth shifts, not prolonged burnouts and banging gears. The rear is setup for smooth engagement of the limited slip, not cooking a set of tires to the cords.

It seems like burnouts are a big thing for you. Heed the warning that if you do them frequently, you will be spending a lot of money for replacement parts, including tires.

If you needed a loan for an $8k vehicle, think about what happens when you toast a $2500 transmission, or need to rebuild the rear for $1200, etc.

There is a tool for every job. Just as you wouldn't use a hammer to operate on someone's kneecap, you wouldn't use an MB for burnout contests.

What you are doing is akin to using a high quality violin to play ac/dc. Its not the right tool for the job.

steve420

sooo, your saying that the mercedes cant handle a burnout?!?!?!?

amgqmp1

To Oliverk: Amen, brother.

To people doing burnouts: If you want a big Benz to do a burnout...you bought the wrong one. You should have bought a late 70s 450SEL 6.9. No traction control to speak of, and a crazy V8 (M-100) under the hood. If you want to see one doing burnouts without spending a small fortune...go rent the movie Ronin.

Of course, if I catch you beating up on a 6.9 anywhere near me...well, I'll have to pound you with one of my shoes! (don't worry, I stick to sandals during the pleasant weather seasons).

Quadcammer

one or two every once in a while, yeah probably.

one or two every week, not a chance.


Heres the other thing I don't understand.

If you've done a burnout, people have seen it, you've been congratulated for being so badass, etc, etc. why the hell are you gonna have to do it again? If you've seen one burnout, you've kind of seen them all. Its not exactly the most interesting thing in the world.

I don't get why you would be doing so many burnouts all the time.

steve420

well, i like to do burnouts. so what. everyones different. if it isn't your cup of tea, o well. i don't really care. i just want to know what i have to do to get my tranny, rearend, and any other things that would possibly break near bullet proof so i can do burnouts on demand. thats all. i meant no beef by it.

Quadcammer

Ok, have the tranny custom built with a huge tranny cooler for about $4,000.

Then you can get an eaton or Torsen rearend for another $650, plus getting new bearings and shims for another $900 including labor.

Probably want to replace both flex disks to eliminate vibration at such substantial driveshaft speeds, so add about $400 there.

Burnouts will cook your rear brakes quick, so plan on $90 pads, and $200 for rotors.

Id say if burnouts are your life, be prepared to double what you paid for the car in mods and repairs.

Nasty Nate

I'm after power, but nothing ridiculous. I am a V8 guy, and although I've heard the 320 is a great engine I'm price shopping as well. The 320 and 430 are both in the same range, 320's starting at $11-14k and 430s starting around $13-18k. I found a black '99 E55 for $19k but thats out of my price range and wouldnt be too great with my insurance company. The E420s however, I've seen starting at $8k up to around $13k which is a huge difference. Even if I bought one for $10k I'd put another $1-1.5k aside for "preventative maintenance" and replace all the little things I would deem possibly problematic.
My problem is just that I wonder if there are any problems UNIQUE to the E420 that the 430 may not have? Basically, is the cost savings in the initial price worth the potential costs down the road (if any)?

I'm surprised you're bothering yourself to insult someone else and their choice of vehicles, arent you the pot calling the kettle black? I'm actually very surprised at the level of childishness in here, I thought Benz owners were supposed to be more mature but I guess that's a myth.

And honestly, Steve420 couldnt you please start your own thread instead of polluting my thread with infantile questions like "can I do a burnout?" If you dont know how to step on the gas pedal and brake pedal at the same time then you deserve to wrap your Benz into a pole. I'm still stumped how people ask this question.

Back to the topic at hand. So is everyone agreeing that the 420 is not a bad choice, and that it doesnt have model specific problems? For the potential price difference of $4-6k I would be willing to overlook minor problems that I can avoid by doing preventative maintenance, and keep in mind that I am an auto mechanic who can undertake most of the repairs myself. Do you know of any problems directly associated with the E420? Anything I should look out for? Thanks to all those who have posted useful and constructive info in this thread, I really appreciate it and it will help me make my decision an informative one.
Cheers.

Quadcammer

I've heard of some possible lifter issues, but I could be mistaken.

azurE430

they already answered your question, you would be better off with a 98E430 than a 97. are you just waiting for someone to say "no difference" and ignore all the rest? resell and maintenance you would better off with a 98. and he even listed the problems. as far as pollution goes you have done your part as well. so use your mature mind and go buy a lexus.

Nasty Nate

Really? Where? I asked if there were any inherent problems with the E420 and so far all I've gotten is speculation. I'm grateful for the help some have given, but I could really do without the arguing of Honda Accord Vs E320, without "how do I do a burnout" and people like you and your useless blabber.
I didnt ask which car or engine was superior. What problems were listed???? All I've seen so far is potential lifter noise/problems, and possible transmission problems and potential burn out problems lol. I'm not worried about resale value, and maintenance is not an issue either because I am a mechanic and I do my own work. Thanks for the utterly useless response, you've shown your maturity with this reply. Now why dont you run off and help someone install a line lock or something?

azurE430

LOL@helping install line locks. I know for a fact that the 97 722.6 has weak components in it but they do have updates for it. one is the 1-2 valve in the valve body the spring breaks and starts screwing into itself and causes a hard engagement into gear from neutral so check that out. the tranny is also prone to leaks at the brake/shift switch. they also have a updated switch for it. I think you would be making a better investment for a 98 than a 97 unless you sneak up on someone that just wants to give a 97 away. but if its only 2k difference I would go for a 98. in the long run it would pay off. theres a reason why they are so much cheaper. ok back to installing line locks on my dads new bentley and a test burnoff.

Nasty Nate

Excellent! Now thats the kind of info I'm looking for! You mention 722.6, is that a factory name for the transmission or other component?
If I find a good priced, low mileage E420 and the transmission seems to be operating smoothly, can an update be installed or does the whole valve body need to be replaced?
Any idea of the difficulty of installing an updated shift switch? Is it cable or electronically actuated?
So far it seems that the largest concern with the E420 is the tranmission. I've found several with low mileage, one in particular is black with 130k km (85k miles), E420, and the price is $8900. To find a comparable E430 I would be in the $13,500-$18,000 range, and that would be a 97-00 model. So, the initial savings would be about $4500, but I'm sure I could score the car for a little bit cheaper (maybe $8k plus taxes). I was planning on putting another $1000-1500 aside for potential repairs, I'm pretty sure that most of the tranmission issues can be resolved for much less than that.
I appreciate the help, this is what I need to hear more of.

azurE430

the spring can be updated without removing the body, you have to remove the body to install the switch. 722.6 is the name of the trans.. on the investment side you mentioned the 420 for 9k and the 430 for 14 k. this is what I'm concerned about, what if someone bought equal condition 420 and 430 put the sAme amount of miles on it and in three years later the 420 was worth 3k and the 430 was 11k? that's what I'm concerned with when looking at a purchase like that. just a thought but I could see it happening, maybe not exactly those numbers but a 420 loosing more value faster. I was in the same situation when looking for for a 430, I found a really clean 420 and a really clean 430 and I choose the 430 because I thought the value would not drop as fast. thing is if you find a real clean 1 owner car that's super taken of and not owned by the burnoff dude (no offense) or the other dude with the (***** box) with lame exhaust and its real clean and you feel good about it go for it. thing is if your mechanic and you got access to this site I wouldn't worry about it. look at the thread about W210 problems, everybody has to fix the same problems, so get the car and update it.

Nasty Nate

I'm not really concerned about resale value. I'm buying an MB because I want a solid, reliable car that will last me another 5 years. I've owned so many cars over the past 12 years, and have modified nearly all of them. I want a Benz because I can just simply maintain it, drive it and do minimal mods. This will allow me to work into my financial plan for the next few years, because I am starting a business but have to work towards my mechanics license first (put it off for too long). Also, a few years down the road I will be able to use this vehicle as a test bed for some of the products I am developing.
I'll have to look into the procedure for removing the valve body and check the amount of time required. Any idea on the part #'s for the spring update and shift switch?
I understand your reasoning behind your vote, but I am being very thorough and am confident in my abilities and can usually spot a lemon. I guess I wont discount the E420, but I will give it less priority unless a very good deal pops up. THanks again for all your info.

ohlord

reliable,I know you are limited in the choices you have up in Canada,but if you want the above,
Look at the 430 less problems more efficient engine more power,fewer electrical problems.Not an abandoned one year orphan,the 430 had more of the new model quirks worked out.Or go with the 320,people (most) abuse them less and you can still find low mile examples around.
ohlord
"GOT CODES?"

J'sBenz

Your dellusional... My 92 300e with 276k lights up second gear everytime your own it full throtle.... and in the rain it does it all the time... TC lights up and you can feel and hear it... I believe it if my car does it

Quadcammer

must be a sale on bicycle tires out there

177bhp and 181lb ft of torque is not gonna "light up" the 195 series tires that come stock. Considering your mileage, id imagine you are making about 168bhp.

Im dellusional? More like you might be barely chirping 1 tire, and the traction control comes on.

huskerden

What are the differences between the 420 and the 430? What did they cheap out on? I was assuming they just changed the bore or stroke. Thanks.

gotglasses

The 1997 E420 has the 4 valve DOHC single plug heads which were around for many years and formed the basis of LeMans winning engines. The 8 plugs need to be changed every 20k to 30,000 miles. It uses regular engine oil that should be changed by 4k to 7k miles.

The 1998 E430 has a 3 valve SOHC dual plug head - which is a lot cheaper to manufacture. It has synthetic motor oil and longer 8k-12k maintenance periods. You now have 16 tiny spark plugs to deal with. Mercedes says they can last 100,000 miles. Maybe. However - IMHO you do need to remove your plugs at least every year to avoid seizing of the threads on any car.

I'd bet that any E430 that had it's plugs untouched for several years has plugs seized. Given the complexity of these engines a stripped plug thread may be so expensive to repair that it will send the car to the junkyard! These cars can easily go for over 200K miles when maintained - just like a Honda.

Until you get into the 2000 model year facelift cars that is the only real difference between the cars. Same HP, similar 0-60 and gas mileage. My E420 Sport - it says AMG on the wheels and on the trunklid - has been a great car for me to finally get into a Benz. I was attracted by the DOHC engine. You can get those again on the newer cars.

At this late date - 2010 - you still see a lot of E420 and E430 on Ebay, lots of them in FLA ! Get a clean car and you