What do you guys think about these wheels??
06-20-2008, 03:45 PM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
They are
not his 20's on the chuck wagon,those are some poor customers of his shop that
had to much money and not enough sense to not install 20's
like I said Mercedes won't even offer the option of 20's on any of their performance models in the states because of the conditions of the roads and the damage it extracts on the rims.
ohlord
btw before you get put on probation for posting your web site,you might want to not keep posting it
had to much money and not enough sense to not install 20's
like I said Mercedes won't even offer the option of 20's on any of their performance models in the states because of the conditions of the roads and the damage it extracts on the rims.
ohlord
btw before you get put on probation for posting your web site,you might want to not keep posting it
06-20-2008, 04:42 PM
#28
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Benz and Beemers
not his 20's on the chuck wagon,those are some poor customers of his shop that
had to much money and not enough sense to not install 20's
like I said Mercedes won't even offer the option of 20's on any of their performance models in the states because of the conditions of the roads and the damage it extracts on the rims.
ohlord
btw before you get put on probation for posting your web site,you might want to not keep posting it
had to much money and not enough sense to not install 20's
like I said Mercedes won't even offer the option of 20's on any of their performance models in the states because of the conditions of the roads and the damage it extracts on the rims.
ohlord
btw before you get put on probation for posting your web site,you might want to not keep posting it
Mercedes does offer 20's on their performance models.
New S63 S65 - standard
New CL63 CL65 - standard
New ML - optional
06-20-2008, 05:16 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
With
the all new redesigned
four-wheel independent suspension ,front stabilizer bar
active suspension, self leveling suspension
multi-link front suspension 3 point and 4 point multi-link rear suspension.
The verdict is still out if they are being offered as standard or an option not available in the states
It is designed for the rim and tire combo.The w210 was not and I have always said if you want to spend the money on camber kits and coil overs and rear links and tuned shocks and big brake kits,then it can be made to have a decent ride.
most of these guys stuffing on 20's are doing non of the required improvements and their cars show it every time a bone stock w210 kicks them to the curb on track day at pacific raceways and on track open for performance hot laps all over America.
I am not the only one who has balanced the 18's v.s. 20's and for looks,handling,and ride quality 18's on lowered springs with the proper shocks can't be beat.
JMTC
ohlord
four-wheel independent suspension ,front stabilizer bar
active suspension, self leveling suspension
multi-link front suspension 3 point and 4 point multi-link rear suspension.
The verdict is still out if they are being offered as standard or an option not available in the states
It is designed for the rim and tire combo.The w210 was not and I have always said if you want to spend the money on camber kits and coil overs and rear links and tuned shocks and big brake kits,then it can be made to have a decent ride.
most of these guys stuffing on 20's are doing non of the required improvements and their cars show it every time a bone stock w210 kicks them to the curb on track day at pacific raceways and on track open for performance hot laps all over America.
I am not the only one who has balanced the 18's v.s. 20's and for looks,handling,and ride quality 18's on lowered springs with the proper shocks can't be beat.
JMTC
ohlord
06-20-2008, 05:21 PM
#30
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06-20-2008, 05:38 PM
#31
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Benz and Beemers
Ohlord, you know your stuff.
"I am not the only one who has balanced the 18's v.s. 20's and for looks,handling,and ride quality 18's on lowered springs with the proper shocks can't be beat."
I have to say that most of the people I run into here are looking at 20's mainly for cosmetics. Many never ask about ride quality or handling.
the all new redesigned
four-wheel independent suspension ,front stabilizer bar
active suspension, self leveling suspension
multi-link front suspension 3 point and 4 point multi-link rear suspension.
The verdict is still out if they are being offered as standard or an option not available in the states
It is designed for the rim and tire combo.The w210 was not and I have always said if you want to spend the money on camber kits and coil overs and rear links and tuned shocks and big brake kits,then it can be made to have a decent ride.
most of these guys stuffing on 20's are doing non of the required improvements and their cars show it every time a bone stock w210 kicks them to the curb on track day at pacific raceways and on track open for performance hot laps all over America.
I am not the only one who has balanced the 18's v.s. 20's and for looks,handling,and ride quality 18's on lowered springs with the proper shocks can't be beat.
JMTC
ohlord
four-wheel independent suspension ,front stabilizer bar
active suspension, self leveling suspension
multi-link front suspension 3 point and 4 point multi-link rear suspension.
The verdict is still out if they are being offered as standard or an option not available in the states
It is designed for the rim and tire combo.The w210 was not and I have always said if you want to spend the money on camber kits and coil overs and rear links and tuned shocks and big brake kits,then it can be made to have a decent ride.
most of these guys stuffing on 20's are doing non of the required improvements and their cars show it every time a bone stock w210 kicks them to the curb on track day at pacific raceways and on track open for performance hot laps all over America.
I am not the only one who has balanced the 18's v.s. 20's and for looks,handling,and ride quality 18's on lowered springs with the proper shocks can't be beat.
JMTC
ohlord
06-20-2008, 06:38 PM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
If that
is your shop,you can't argue with the customers wants.It is just such a shame how many pricey 20'' rims wheels get sold off on craigslist and forums,beaten up,curb rashed ,or "slight crack"that needs to be repaired and the guy that bought them thinks he will even get 50% of the price he paid.
I think we've all seen cases where 20's with good tires sold for hardly more then the new tires costIt's like buy my tires and get a free set of $2000 rims for 1 Cent more sale
I think we've all seen cases where 20's with good tires sold for hardly more then the new tires cost
It's like buy my tires and get a free set of $2000 rims for 1 Cent more sale
06-20-2008, 10:19 PM
#33
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e320 wagon 1998
06-21-2008, 12:25 AM
#34
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'02 E430 SE, '02 Avalanche Z66, '06 R-350
Not sure if there are different models, but only one came up when i searched for my model fitment. I did not replace the pads or the shocks, although I will be replacing the shocks soon and I'll consider changing the front pads at that time, the rear are perfect the way they are now.
06-21-2008, 01:13 AM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
If
you like the best ride you can get while still dropping it,go with eibach's.
Big rims and a drop are going to require camber bolts and a rear camber link kit so you better add about $700 and a mb alignment to what ever your rims and tires add up to.Or the tires won't last much over a year.Besides looking silly
Big rims and a drop are going to require camber bolts and a rear camber link kit so you better add about $700 and a mb alignment to what ever your rims and tires add up to.Or the tires won't last much over a year.Besides looking silly
06-22-2008, 11:06 PM
#37
Junior Member
ohlord,
I agree with you on the bone jarring ride of 20's.... but I'm trying to understand why "only" big rims require all the suspension mods you mention... I'm not a suspension expert, but I don't see what the size in rim/tire combo has to do with the necessity of all of these suspension mods....
Whether you are running 17's, 18's, 19's, or 20's wouldn't the suspension geometry be about the same? Of course there's going to be a little tire flex with the smaller rims, but I don't understand why the camber, toe, etc.. would be any different...
If you could explain this, it would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
I agree with you on the bone jarring ride of 20's.... but I'm trying to understand why "only" big rims require all the suspension mods you mention... I'm not a suspension expert, but I don't see what the size in rim/tire combo has to do with the necessity of all of these suspension mods....
Whether you are running 17's, 18's, 19's, or 20's wouldn't the suspension geometry be about the same? Of course there's going to be a little tire flex with the smaller rims, but I don't understand why the camber, toe, etc.. would be any different...
If you could explain this, it would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
you like the best ride you can get while still dropping it,go with eibach's.
Big rims and a drop are going to require camber bolts and a rear camber link kit so you better add about $700 and a mb alignment to what ever your rims and tires add up to.Or the tires won't last much over a year.Besides looking silly
Big rims and a drop are going to require camber bolts and a rear camber link kit so you better add about $700 and a mb alignment to what ever your rims and tires add up to.Or the tires won't last much over a year.Besides looking silly
06-23-2008, 12:48 AM
#38
MBWorld Fanatic!
Ride quality
adhesion limits and the suspensions ability all depend on adjustments made to the suspension as wheel rim diameter increases and tire aspect ratio decreases.
You could install 20's and not drop the suspension with all the modifications noted above but the ride would be abysmal and the added unsprung rotational mass (the average MB w210 tire spins at about 820 revs per mile) will also lengthen your braking distance.Adding to those issues in order to make the larger rim /shorter sidewall combo attempt to perform and as an aside look proper. Most people install dropped springs and sport shocks.
That is where all the other issues of camber angles,side load forces on bearings and camber bolts,link kits ,tire wear issues come into play.
Remember we are talking about 3mm adjustments in camber bolt eccentrics and tenths of degrees in angles in suspension angles.A typical 1.75inch drop will change rear camber over -2.5 degrees,not tenths whole degrees.To gain those whole degrees back is not provided in the stock w210 suspension.Thus the need to purchase and install the special bolts and link kits to set it correctly.Tracking,cornering and tire life depend on having it set for the combo installed.Bigger up to a point looks cooler(20's are just not my taste) Doing them correctly is where 90% of the owners fall flat on their collective faces.
Thanks for the great question,I hope that the answer is as insightful
ohlord
You could install 20's and not drop the suspension with all the modifications noted above but the ride would be abysmal and the added unsprung rotational mass (the average MB w210 tire spins at about 820 revs per mile) will also lengthen your braking distance.Adding to those issues in order to make the larger rim /shorter sidewall combo attempt to perform and as an aside look proper. Most people install dropped springs and sport shocks.
That is where all the other issues of camber angles,side load forces on bearings and camber bolts,link kits ,tire wear issues come into play.
Remember we are talking about 3mm adjustments in camber bolt eccentrics and tenths of degrees in angles in suspension angles.A typical 1.75inch drop will change rear camber over -2.5 degrees,not tenths whole degrees.To gain those whole degrees back is not provided in the stock w210 suspension.Thus the need to purchase and install the special bolts and link kits to set it correctly.Tracking,cornering and tire life depend on having it set for the combo installed.Bigger up to a point looks cooler(20's are just not my taste
) Doing them correctly is where 90% of the owners fall flat on their collective faces.Thanks for the great question,I hope that the answer is as insightful
ohlord
06-23-2008, 06:29 AM
#39
Junior Member
Agreed on all points.... but it still sounds like these rules should be applied to ANYONE that lowers their car... whether they be on 14's or 22's...and I think you need to make that clear to everyone.... not just the individuals who say they want to buy 20's because they are not to your taste
For example, you suggested:
Your choice of wording could be interpreted such that he wouldn't have to pay that same $600 to correct his suspension geometry if he went with 18's.... but I don't believe that's true?
(unless you are telling him that he shouldn't drop his car at all if he had 18's?)
Again, I completely agree with you on the ride quality of 20's... you will feel every bump in the road, probably be slower (heavier wheels), and be more susceptible to bends...
For example, you suggested:
Originally Posted by ohlord
Go with 18's you will like the ride more and it will look more proportional.You go with 20's and a drop and you will need to spend about another $600 before labor on camber bolts and rear camber links,just to have it aligned into spec so the car tracks properly and the tires don't wear out every 10k miles.
(unless you are telling him that he shouldn't drop his car at all if he had 18's?)
Again, I completely agree with you on the ride quality of 20's... you will feel every bump in the road, probably be slower (heavier wheels), and be more susceptible to bends...
adhesion limits and the suspensions ability all depend on adjustments made to the suspension as wheel rim diameter increases and tire aspect ratio decreases.
You could install 20's and not drop the suspension with all the modifications noted above but the ride would be abysmal and the added unsprung rotational mass (the average MB w210 tire spins at about 820 revs per mile) will also lengthen your braking distance.Adding to those issues in order to make the larger rim /shorter sidewall combo attempt to perform and as an aside look proper. Most people install dropped springs and sport shocks.
That is where all the other issues of camber angles,side load forces on bearings and camber bolts,link kits ,tire wear issues come into play.
Remember we are talking about 3mm adjustments in camber bolt eccentrics and tenths of degrees in angles in suspension angles.A typical 1.75inch drop will change rear camber over -2.5 degrees,not tenths whole degrees.To gain those whole degrees back is not provided in the stock w210 suspension.Thus the need to purchase and install the special bolts and link kits to set it correctly.Tracking,cornering and tire life depend on having it set for the combo installed.Bigger up to a point looks cooler(20's are just not my taste) Doing them correctly is where 90% of the owners fall flat on their collective faces.
Thanks for the great question,I hope that the answer is as insightful
ohlord
You could install 20's and not drop the suspension with all the modifications noted above but the ride would be abysmal and the added unsprung rotational mass (the average MB w210 tire spins at about 820 revs per mile) will also lengthen your braking distance.Adding to those issues in order to make the larger rim /shorter sidewall combo attempt to perform and as an aside look proper. Most people install dropped springs and sport shocks.
That is where all the other issues of camber angles,side load forces on bearings and camber bolts,link kits ,tire wear issues come into play.
Remember we are talking about 3mm adjustments in camber bolt eccentrics and tenths of degrees in angles in suspension angles.A typical 1.75inch drop will change rear camber over -2.5 degrees,not tenths whole degrees.To gain those whole degrees back is not provided in the stock w210 suspension.Thus the need to purchase and install the special bolts and link kits to set it correctly.Tracking,cornering and tire life depend on having it set for the combo installed.Bigger up to a point looks cooler(20's are just not my taste
) Doing them correctly is where 90% of the owners fall flat on their collective faces.Thanks for the great question,I hope that the answer is as insightful
ohlord
06-23-2008, 08:20 AM
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
While having
the smaller diameter rims means proportionally taller sidewalls,yes there is less of a desire for most people to drop the suspensions.
The point I make about the 20's and a drop is as you point out applicable to any drop with any tire and rim combo.Suspension geometry aside the money and time spent to get the ride quality close to being acceptable just increases greatly with bigger rims and smaller aspect ratio tires simply due to the lack of sidewall and the desire of the owner to get the stance just right.
20's look funny enough(To me) when installed on a non dropped vehicle they look like a low rider(to me)
ohlord
18's without a drop are passable same diameter tires on 20 inch rims and we've
all seen side by side comparisons,look like the car is up on stilts and should have murals on the hood(to me)
The point I make about the 20's and a drop is as you point out applicable to any drop with any tire and rim combo.Suspension geometry aside the money and time spent to get the ride quality close to being acceptable just increases greatly with bigger rims and smaller aspect ratio tires simply due to the lack of sidewall and the desire of the owner to get the stance just right.
20's look funny enough(To me) when installed on a non dropped vehicle they look like a low rider(to me)
ohlord
18's without a drop are passable same diameter tires on 20 inch rims and we've
all seen side by side comparisons,look like the car is up on stilts and should have murals on the hood
(to me)
08-22-2008, 09:47 PM
#43
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2000 E430 Sport
I come in peace
Hey guys don't forget about me.
I like my 20's for the look. I don't really notice a diffrence in ride quality from 19's to 20's. But what I do notice I am slower when I take off from a complete stop. It must be due to the heavier wheels. I do like the wheels looks like E63 AMG wheels. I hope I don't look like a CHUCK WAGON. 
I like my 20's for the look. I don't really notice a diffrence in ride quality from 19's to 20's. But what I do notice I am slower when I take off from a complete stop. It must be due to the heavier wheels. I do like the wheels looks like E63 AMG wheels. I hope I don't look like a CHUCK WAGON.
Last edited by mike430sport; 08-22-2008 at 09:51 PM.
08-22-2008, 11:12 PM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-MO...d=p3911.c0.m14
