curtis73

I'm just about tearing out my hair.

Here's the deal. My wife said her E300 wasn't right. I discovered that the fan had flexed a blade forward, grabbed the shroud, and put a hole in the aluminum part of the tank flange in the radiator. Grrr. So, I disassembled it all, put in a new fan, shroud, and repaired the radiator. I noticed that it was still contacting the shroud and radiator. In desperation, I disassembled again and rotated the rubber lower grommets 180 degrees which got me another 1/8". Then I reached under, grabbed the lower radiator support and bent the sheet metal forward about 1/2". So, now I thought it was OK and I only spent one day and $130 in parts.

But today the same !*&^$^& thing happened.

Is this a common problem? Is there a fix? I'm tired of tearing it apart and I can only patch the aluminum so many times. No matter how I assemble it I can't get enough space between the radiator and the fan.

michakaveli

Sounds like she may have hit something and knocked it out of alignment. First time I've read such an issue...

lkchris

You need new motor mounts.

Check the transmission mount, too.

Fix the disease, not simply the symptom.

michakaveli

+1

They are relatively simple to replace.

curtis73

I'll look into it...

Let me explain a little more and see if you still think its motor mounts. The fan is contacting the shroud and radiator at 3'oclock (the passenger side).

If it were motor mounts, wouldn't it contact the top or bottom of the shroud? If this problem is indeed caused by engine movement, the engine would have to yaw to the side; i.e. the rear of the engine would have to be moving straight to the right. I would think that motor mounts would allow the engine to twist relative to the crank axis, not to the side.

My other support for this theory is that both times this happened at higher RPMs with the fan clutch engaged... BUT at very low loads; about 1/4 throttle. If it were motor mounts I would think it would happen during high engine output, not simply high RPMs. In fact, after getting it in the garage tonight I was able to duplicate the problem revving in neutral.

I did discover (with the last repair) that the lower radiator support is very flimsy sheet metal and I was able to bend it with one hand. My first suspicion was that we had hit it on a curb or something, but I personally have been the only driver of the car for the last three months and I can assure you that the recurrence of the issue happened without any prior impact.

michakaveli

The motor mounts tend to collapse over time. Sometimes they both go down even, appears in your case that they have not.

curtis73

Ok, had it all apart today, had the radiator patched, and re-assembled. I left the shroud out for now since it has been the interference part from square one. I checked the motor mounts. Definitely not the problem. They look brand new, the engine is nowhere near the sway bar, and repeatedly putting a load on the engine (in gear with my foot on the brake) I couldn't get the engine to move more than 1/4", and it was certainly not in a direction that would cause the passenger side of the fan to torque forward enough to contact the fan. I would understand a collapsed engine mount if it contacted the top or bottom, but this hits the passenger side radiator tank.

Instead, I came to a possible conclusion. I will assume that at some point it had a front end collision that tweaked things around. I repositioned the lower radiator support to give equidistant space at all points from the fan (about 3/4") and noticed that the intercooler wouldn't slide up in place because it hit the tow hook. If I moved the radiator enough to get the intercooler in place it was dangerously close to the fan. So, instead of compromise, I decided to get out the grinder and "modify" the tow hook so that the intercooler fits.

Overall, I am very confident in my work. My only concern is that without the shroud I may notice a little higher temps in town; something I will watch like a hawk, but for now I feel assured it will get us home.

I really kinda wish it was motor mounts; that's what everyone seems to think, but its just not

michakaveli

Just food for thought, you can't visually tell always if the motor mounts are no good. I think at this point some photos may help.

TMAllison

E300's are suceptable to bottoming when hitting steep driveway approaches too fast or rubbing on tall parking barriers or curbs.

Look beneath the rad and you'll see scars on the front belly pan at opposing ends beneath the intercooler/rad.

Simply stick a hunk of 2 x 4 up in there and lever the rad forward to where it belongs. Then go yell at the wife for not telling you what she did and grab an extra beer; she wont dare say a thing....

TMAllison

Motor mounts can be measured. 17mm new. 13mm collasped.

Use the outside dia of a smaller socket that is 17m OD as a feeler gauge to measure. Measure from top down to 2nd(?) rubber rim.

On the left side you can also look at the top with a light for cracks. Really bad mounts have cracks that are squeezed shut which is why measuring is necessary.

190E-Boy

Needed a new fan blade and radiator. Not sure if I bottomed the radiator
or the shroud came loose and whacked the fan. I'm pretty careful when it comes to speed bumps, parking lot markers and curbs. My alignment was out of spec and my car was shuddering alot. Might have slowly shaken it loose.

Fixed and didn't happen again......yet.

Also an E300

190E-Boy

So it was repaired, I didn't bottom out and my shroud was tight, however my assumption was failing motor mounts jiggled the shroud into play ( not much room for error) and I caught my radiator again. Fan was OK, I tore the shroud out as it was chipped and figured it would catch again.

My mechanic says I needed motor mount, they were shot. Dag nabbit. Anyone else facing this and how many miles do you have? I'm at 223K and these are the original mounts.

thanks

michakaveli

Just replace your mounts. With that age and mileage they need to be replaced. Mine were replaced about a year or so ago and were noticeably shorter than the new replacements.

190E-Boy

I'm getting a new radiator (2nd one in last 4 months)
new shroud
new motor mounts (they were shot)

How much effort is involved, my understanding (from my W201) is jack up the engine, remove and replace. Is the W210 more involved ($$$)

thanks

michakaveli

Motor mounts are very simple actually. I think the hardest part was getting to the bolt on top of the mount on the driver's side. Just lift up the engine gently w/ a jack and a piece of wood as a cushion and you're good to go

190E-Boy

Out of curiosity and experience what should I tend to next as a PM rather than a headache. I drive ~ 45-50K miles per year.

Thus far I've done the following (past 2 years):

Wiring harness and glow plugs at 110K
replaced ball joints at 160K
Head gasket at 169K
replaced shocks- got Bilstein HD's at 200K
Working on my third radiator
Changed my fuel lines (they leak after a while on the E300)


Need to take off exhaust manifold and clean - getting the check engine issue associated with diesels. Of course I do the routine tires, brakes, fuel filter, air filter.

Noticing rust spots too, antenna grommet, trunk key hole and one wheel well. Not like my old 190E.

Trying to love it but......

Any suggestions are welcome.

michakaveli

I wouldn't waste time to remove the exhaust manifold. You may want to perform the EGR disable mod and vent the CCV gases to the atmosphere. It'll keep the intake squeaky clean and no CEL's.... I've run this setup for around 60-70k with no adverse affects. And NO noticeable increase of oil consumption.

190E-Boy

Is there a post describing this mod? I'll search but if you have a link that would be much appreciated.

thanks

michakaveli

Search my prior posts, around 2005

190E-Boy

My mechanic finished the job. Let the car idle for a while, took it out to test drive it and the fan did the same freakin' thing, gouged the radiator! This is the 3rd radiator. Apart from the shroud, motor mounts and maybe the fan clutch is there anything else obvious, has not been bttomed out either. Driveway scrapes included????

Anyone? How much clearance is there between the fan and the radiator and can I increase the distance by sliding the fan back?

WOW!

thanks

TMAllison

I know the fan and rad are tight on the 98/99's. Less space between than on the 96/97 I've been told.

Michavelli could confirm; he's got one of each.

I'm guessing at this point you've had some front end damage previously, that 98/99 parts (wp, clutch or fans) may ahve been used instead of 96 parts or combo....

190E-Boy

I'd like to think that might be the reason (PO had front end damage) but I've driven the car for 110K miles before it happened the first time. The motor mounts have been changed (yesterday) but your hypothesis of newer parts giving less clearance is interesting. Could a 98/99 fan not have the same profile as my 96? I did lose my middle pan to road debris and it dragged for a mile or two. I'll suggest my mechanic pry the radiator forward to see if I can't gain more space. Can the fan slide back on the clutch or is that fixed?

thanks.

Also my front end looks original and there was no other signs of front end repairs, crappy foggy lights and my fog lights were oem bosch

Bad motor mounts and my suspension was just replaced (shocks) plus I dragged my engine cover, maybe my radiator is out of alignment.

I'll keep you posted.

michakaveli

Looking at replacement water pumps online, you can see that the impeller for the turbo models has slightly longer blades and the fan has 12 blades ,as opposed to the non-turbo's 8 blades on the fan.

I can't understand how 110k miles no issues, and only recently issues. Lend your car to anyone?

michakaveli

Long shot, tranny mount? That may tilt the drivetrain slightly if it's shot???

190E-Boy

Tranny mout was shot too and the radiator was slightly shifted at the bottom. I guess the PO may have had the car bumped in the front and then my ownership wore away the mounts to drop it in proximity of radiator.

Sounds great now above idle, but it also sounds more clicky (diesel) at idle. I checked and all is clear. I got a new fan clutch in the process too. When I switch off the engine how long should the blades sip after shut down? Mine make a few more revolutions then come to an abrupt stop, but don't spin for more than 1-2 seconds.

Noises are bothersome, esp when ignored. So now I'm paranoid.

Thanks for everyones help. I'll keep you posted.