curtis73

It just seems as though a vehicle this sophisticated would have something simple like a lockup torque converter. Is it supposed to and mine just doesn't lock, or do they not have them?

99 E300, 5 speed auto, 180k miles.

Television

There is lock up to a certain degree on the 722.6 box that you have

http://ezinearticles.com/?Torque-Con...ckup&id=113485

curtis73

I appreciate the link, but I know how they work... I'm just not getting any lockup. I've only had the car for a few months and it just struck me as odd that it doesn't have a TCC. But if you're telling me there IS a lockup converter then I have a problem. Mine doesn't lock, try to lock, or even partially lock.

ohlord

722.6 is a full lock up converter,3 stages engaged,disengaged,slipping.


op see the reply to your post on benzworld.org.

husk323

uh oh here we go again

https://mbworld.org/forums/archive/i.../t-166267.html

curtis73

Uh... thanks?

Now after reading that I know that it may or may not have one, and if I do I'm not supposed to know if its locking or not.

Here's all I know... mine is not locking in any way, shape, or form. There is never a time when it locks even partially.

husk323

I believe it only works at a high rate of speed and it is variable

ohlord

all in by 3grand.Fluid and filter change.And a run on diagnostics will tell you if the valve is bad or a solenoid is shot.But something is not right.

722.6
http://w210.pietrzyk.net/trans2_valvpress.htm
Note how the TC lock up bypass depends on fluid flow past the valve.
I would start with the fresh fluid and filter if never done.DIY on benzworld.org w210 and mercedesshop.com

husk323

Nothing is wrong with the transmission, the diesels do not have TC's that lockup at under 80mph. I have had my car since new and I have driven several other E300's and they all only lockup over 80mph. Unless all these vehicles had transmission problems, and my car from new had transmission problems there is no way it could be a maintenance issue.

curtis73

Sure it could. Neglect and junk in the fluid could have destroyed the clutches in the TC. Happens all the time. Burnt fluid also has a much higher rate of slippage which accelerates wear.

Lightman

This is clearly our friend Durrrelll under a different screen name asking the same tired question. Give it up buddy, we're sorry you can't feel it..mercedes designed it that way..partial lockup under various conditions changing to full lockup...I posted the charts. Your car has a locking tc and it works..

curtis73

Are you talking to me?

I was just a new E300 owner asking a question. My question was does it have it or not. You posted that it does. End of story. This thread was forgotten in November, dude.

Green E-300 DT

Stick to your guns my friend. We do indeed know what we are talking about!

I've had two example. One of which was brand new. In fact, that is the reason I
returned it to the new car dealer back in '99. It did not have a locking T/C.

The used one I bought was worked on by Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach for over one week. That car had almost 100K miles on it at that time, and they could not get the problem solved.
They even changed the tranny computer. No luck. They finally said it did not have a locking T/C.
BTW, I never could detect any lockup at any speed no matter what I did, and the diagonistic
tool I was holding while the tech drove it did not show any lockup occuring.

Derrel

Lightman

Hahaha..didn't think I could squeeze any more laughter out of this topic but Durrell has done it again..LOL. Whether that is you on both screen names or not, this is funny. Curtis, if you're not dgreen - congrats, the simple answer is that your car does have one, but you won't feel it kick in and lock like a tradtional tc, nor when you left off the throttle (aside from higher speeds where you will notice it behaving in a more traditional manner on the tach). See the chart in the other threads. Dgreen, it's clear that no matter how many times people try to force a square peg in a circular hole, it won't work...you apparently will never realize you had a locking tc in both cars..truly someone who needs to realize if something isn't broken don't try to fix it..

Green E-300 DT

You Lightman should change your handle to Lightheaded, for you truly are!

As usual, you are wrong again. I did not change my name or handle.

The name is Derrel. Can't you even get that little detail correct?

Maybe my tachometer couldn't 'feel it' either, but I could surely see that both of mine had tachometers that would show increases of rpms
at any speed even with just the slightest increase in throttle.
Neither had a functioning T/C.

You should take the time and drive a 2005 or later diesel and feel how they do indeed have locking T/Cs.

The '98 and '99 E-300 DT do not.

Derrel

Lightman

Duhh-rell, you can hang on to that sinking ship as long as you like, however mercedes techs, the service manuals, and anyone else you call who knows, that it has one. What a moron.

Green E-300 DT

Past you bedtime little one.

The only people that are laughing are those of us who are 'in the know'.
We are laughing at you, and not with you.

Why would any modern automobile manufacture wait until over 2700 rpm in overdrive (80 mph)
to engage a locking torque convertor? Answer that one oh learned one!

Better yet, get yourself to beddy-bye now.

Derrel H Green

Lightman

Keep living in your bubble dgreen, and read the old threads if you need a reminder that everyone including me was telling you the fact that the car does have a locking TC, including POSTING THE DIAGRAMS... Go back to the retirement home and get back on your medicine loony tunes.

TMAllison

Hmmm....with 260K I'm still trying to figure out why anyone should actually care.

Step on the throttle and it goes. Step harder and it goes faster; at least to a point.

It will never be an E55 regardless how its driven or if its gotten fancy rims, rubber or lowering springs added.

Lightman, glad to see you posting. Have a couple of your old posts saved from another forum I hang out at.

curtis73

Listen, guys... I didn't start this thread to make an argument.

Here is the bottom line when it comes to my E300. I fully understand that the transmission DOES have a locking converter as per the provided literature. I believe that. However, according to my years as a very knowledgable automotive person I also know that mine DOES NOT LOCK. Just to be clear. I understand that it HAS ONE, it just doesn't lock. I studied that red, yellow, and green chart of when its supposed to be locked or partially locked, and mine just doesn't. Period. There is no lock, no partial lock, just nothing except a wide-open converter.

The other point I was trying to make was this: My converter is acting like an open (non lockup) converter. It doesn't matter how quickly I throttle, how much throttle I give, or where I am in the map as far as speed and RPM, it has absolutely no lockup. Again, I know that its SUPPOSED to lockup, it just doesn't. I have been an automotive driveline engineer since I could breathe. I grew up in a family of auto customizers with our own business. I feel very qualified to know whether or not its locking up or not and it just isn't. Period.

Normally, a locked converter would be indicated by periods during which the RPMs are locked to vehicle speed regardless of how short its locked, it would be indicated at some point during the 25,000 miles I've owned it. I've tried every possible scenario, including using this chart:



No matter what I do in that chart to attempt to get the converter to lock, it will not. I've even hooked up a code scanner that shows real-time data to verify my TPS and RPM. Nothing. Period. I even dropped down a gear, accelerated to 85 mph in 4th which was nearly 4500 RPMs, verified 12.8% throttle, and I had NO lockup. That should not only satisfy the parameters of that graph, but also whoever is saying that it only happens at 80+ mph.

I don't know what else to say except giving you my resume as a driveline engineer for Saab and Volvo. I really DO know what I'm talking about concerning whether or not its locking up.

Just to be clear. I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A LOCKUP CONVERTER. I'M SIMPLY TELLING YOU THAT MINE DOES NOT LOCK. EVER.

curtis73

And as far as my being this derrell guy... someone do an IP check. Cripes, I've never been made to feel so unwelcome and accused of so much.

I'm just trying to find someone with some practical technical knowledge who can help me understand why my lockup converter won't lock.

Lightman

TMallison - good to 'see' ya too...and thx, although this isn't necessarily the type of thread I like to resurface on ...lol..but duhrell's denial is always entertaining I do from time to time get emails regarding the glowplug how to I wrote which is always nice. I hear ya on why care as long as the car is performing well...

Curtis, if you're truly not Dgreen all apologies and if you read the old threads you'll probably be able to laugh at it. I hear that you're saying you know it's there but it's not working. You may totally be right..my experience with the two 99 E300's we've owned and my grandma's 99 e320 is that I've never 'felt' the tc lockup as it does in my truck - with a solid engagement the entire time until it disengages.. However, as I mentioned, run the car up to 90 or 100mph...let off the accelerator, and in my experiences the rpms would fall slowly corresponding to rpm for a while until at some point it would smoothly disengage (at what point that is I do not know because I spent my time enjoying driving the car not worrying about the trans). Curtis - is the car performing well and does it get typical mpg's?

curtis73

Yes. It has been a while since I did a real highway MPG check, but its in the low 30s; on par with others' reports. But its frying tranny fluid.... which I know could be other wear and other issues, but the fact that the TC isn't locking is a pretty clear possibility of why the tranny temps are getting high enough to burn the fluid. Nothing in the filter, no cloudy fluid or anything to indicate that there is any abnormal wear in the clutches or pump. I did a drain and fill (including the drain in the TC and new filter) shortly after I got it. The pan was spotless indicating either no abnormal wear, or it had been cleaned just before I got it. 8000 miles later the fluid was clear, but brown and smelled terribly burnt. That time I did a running flush. I checked after another 8k the fluid is back to being crystal clear but burnt and brown. It goes in like stawberry syrup and comes out looking like maple syrup 8000 miles later.

I realize I'm new to MB, but I'm not new to tranny diagnosis. So, I guess I need help from you guys to determine what's going on. So far, all signs point to high tranny temps, no abnormal or accelerated clutch wear, no pump malfunction, and no TC lockup.

In a nutshell:
-clean pan, clean fluid, clean filter
-normal operation except no TC lockup
-8000-ish miles later, burnt maple syrup.

curtis73

Nothing even remotely like that happens. Regardless of speed (I've only had it up to about 95), letting off the accelerator causes an instant drop of a couple hundred RPM. I've also tried holding steady 85 and accelerating with varying speeds of accelerator depression, and always the RPMs rise elastically.

TMAllison

Curtis - You are using the MB fluid for the 722.6 or 722.9 which is backward compatible, correct?

I used the newer fluid when I did mine. Is supposed to have some slightly imporved friction charectoristics. Don't feel to much of a change.