<<< NEW AMS Performance packages for E320 & E430! >>>
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Sep 2008
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AMG
<<< NEW AMS Performance packages for E320 & E430! >>>
Hello W210 owners,
AMS is proud to announce a whole now performance product lineup for the W210 E320 and E430s. AMS is now the only performance tuner to make these specific performance products for the W210 chassis vehicles at an affordable price.
Having been a W210 owner myself I felt first hand just how frustrating it was to have so few performance parts available so AMS aimed to change that to provide a whole new product line for the W210 vehicles:
- E320 Performance Headers
- E320 Performance Pulley
- E320 Performance ECU
- E430 Performance Headers
- E430 Performance Pulley
- E430 Performance ECU
Performance Packages: Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3, Stage 3+
The discount savings grow with each successive stage performance package and the provide a great discount and convenient one stop shop for all your W210 tuning needs.
We also encourage our customers to participate in our AMS Dyno Rewards program, which will provide additional discount for those willing to do before & after dyno tests. After all, we like our customers to participate as much as possible in the W210 community by doing 100% independent comparisons (strict rules apply, email for details).
To view our products feel free to visit our website:
AMS Performance Products Website
Thank you for your time and have a nice day,
~AMS~
AMS is proud to announce a whole now performance product lineup for the W210 E320 and E430s. AMS is now the only performance tuner to make these specific performance products for the W210 chassis vehicles at an affordable price.
Having been a W210 owner myself I felt first hand just how frustrating it was to have so few performance parts available so AMS aimed to change that to provide a whole new product line for the W210 vehicles:
- E320 Performance Headers
- E320 Performance Pulley
- E320 Performance ECU
- E430 Performance Headers
- E430 Performance Pulley
- E430 Performance ECU
Performance Packages: Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3, Stage 3+
The discount savings grow with each successive stage performance package and the provide a great discount and convenient one stop shop for all your W210 tuning needs.
We also encourage our customers to participate in our AMS Dyno Rewards program, which will provide additional discount for those willing to do before & after dyno tests. After all, we like our customers to participate as much as possible in the W210 community by doing 100% independent comparisons (strict rules apply, email for details).
To view our products feel free to visit our website:
AMS Performance Products Website
Thank you for your time and have a nice day,
~AMS~
MBWorld Fanatic!
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300E a couple 1994 w124wagon E320 Wagon/,1971MGB Track/Rally, MG Midget Autocross ,2000 E320 wagon.
$1200-$1500 before labor to install
for 20H.P.
How much estimated for labor to install the headers and pulley?
How much estimated for labor to install the headers and pulley?
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Sep 2008
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AMG
The pulleys on the W210s are real easy to install, standard labor rate is 1.5 hours typically (although most benz specialists can do in under half an hour, they will probably still charge you the 1.5 hour rate, unless you have a "buddy" that will do it for less).
The headers are a bit more subjective, some shops will charge more than others. To know for sure ask your local independent or dealership they should be able to tell you. Some shops charge as low as 2 hours, some as high as 4, it all depends on where you take it.
Both are 100% bolt-on and require no modification of any kind to existing downpipes or other emissions equipment and can be removed should one want to keep them or sell them when they sell their car down the road.
Lifetime warranty on all AMS products are included (of course) .
Thanks,
~AMS~
The headers are a bit more subjective, some shops will charge more than others. To know for sure ask your local independent or dealership they should be able to tell you. Some shops charge as low as 2 hours, some as high as 4, it all depends on where you take it.
Both are 100% bolt-on and require no modification of any kind to existing downpipes or other emissions equipment and can be removed should one want to keep them or sell them when they sell their car down the road.
Lifetime warranty on all AMS products are included (of course) .
Thanks,
~AMS~
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Sep 2008
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AMG
to see if you have one nearby, use their dyno locater page:
http://www.dyno.com.au/dyno/controller/locator
hope that helps.
~AMS~
Last edited by AMS Performance; Jan 21, 2009 at 07:35 PM.
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Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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AMG
Again, giving conservative numbers, the dynos will tell the full story but I'd hate to say "50+HP" like some tuners and then grossly under perform.
remember this is not just peak HP at one specific rpm. It is power that is available directly off idle and held throughout the power band, so its alot more than just the number suggests. It greatly improves the "meat" under the entire curve, and thats what really helps acceleration, not just peak power past 5500rpm or something etc. You will definitely FEEL the difference for sure, its very pronounced. Furthermore, most people cannot even get any extra power out of there cars, they certainly aren't going to do it with an Ebay HAI (hot air intake)
Hope that helps.
remember this is not just peak HP at one specific rpm. It is power that is available directly off idle and held throughout the power band, so its alot more than just the number suggests. It greatly improves the "meat" under the entire curve, and thats what really helps acceleration, not just peak power past 5500rpm or something etc. You will definitely FEEL the difference for sure, its very pronounced. Furthermore, most people cannot even get any extra power out of there cars, they certainly aren't going to do it with an Ebay HAI (hot air intake)
Hope that helps.
Last edited by AMS Performance; Jan 21, 2009 at 08:25 PM.
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Former Vendor of MBWorld
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From: Dunellen, NJ
Chrysler Crossfire
I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here so don't think that's the case.
We recently dynoed a 320 with headers from another company. We saw a peak gain of about 6 RWHP but an increase of about 9 RWTQ and 8 RWHP throughout the entire RPM band. Once the car was tuned we picked up another 10-12 RWHP and 16 RWTQ. On a N/A 3.2L v6 that is a lot of power. Stock these motors put down 150ish RWHP (on the dyno we are using). So that's about a 10% RWHP gain for headers and tune and a greatly improved power band.
The only reason I offer this is that I don't think AMS has an installation facility so they may not be able to offer up as many independent tests.
Given the dimensions of the AMS primaries (larger then stock) I would imagine they would produce a broader torque curve, but being a log design would be slightly less peak HP (which is more for bragging rights).
Maybe we'll buy a set (have to be SLK friendly) and we'll do the dyno. I'm sure we'll be satisfied with the results.
We recently dynoed a 320 with headers from another company. We saw a peak gain of about 6 RWHP but an increase of about 9 RWTQ and 8 RWHP throughout the entire RPM band. Once the car was tuned we picked up another 10-12 RWHP and 16 RWTQ. On a N/A 3.2L v6 that is a lot of power. Stock these motors put down 150ish RWHP (on the dyno we are using). So that's about a 10% RWHP gain for headers and tune and a greatly improved power band.
The only reason I offer this is that I don't think AMS has an installation facility so they may not be able to offer up as many independent tests.
Given the dimensions of the AMS primaries (larger then stock) I would imagine they would produce a broader torque curve, but being a log design would be slightly less peak HP (which is more for bragging rights).
Maybe we'll buy a set (have to be SLK friendly) and we'll do the dyno. I'm sure we'll be satisfied with the results.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,935
Likes: 5
AMG
I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here so don't think that's the case.
We recently dynoed a 320 with headers from another company. We saw a peak gain of about 6 RWHP but an increase of about 9 RWTQ and 8 RWHP throughout the entire RPM band. Once the car was tuned we picked up another 10-12 RWHP and 16 RWTQ. On a N/A 3.2L v6 that is a lot of power. Stock these motors put down 150ish RWHP (on the dyno we are using). So that's about a 10% RWHP gain for headers and tune and a greatly improved power band.
The only reason I offer this is that I don't think AMS has an installation facility so they may not be able to offer up as many independent tests.
Given the dimensions of the AMS primaries (larger then stock) I would imagine they would produce a broader torque curve, but being a log design would be slightly less peak HP (which is more for bragging rights).
Maybe we'll buy a set (have to be SLK friendly) and we'll do the dyno. I'm sure we'll be satisfied with the results.
We recently dynoed a 320 with headers from another company. We saw a peak gain of about 6 RWHP but an increase of about 9 RWTQ and 8 RWHP throughout the entire RPM band. Once the car was tuned we picked up another 10-12 RWHP and 16 RWTQ. On a N/A 3.2L v6 that is a lot of power. Stock these motors put down 150ish RWHP (on the dyno we are using). So that's about a 10% RWHP gain for headers and tune and a greatly improved power band.
The only reason I offer this is that I don't think AMS has an installation facility so they may not be able to offer up as many independent tests.
Given the dimensions of the AMS primaries (larger then stock) I would imagine they would produce a broader torque curve, but being a log design would be slightly less peak HP (which is more for bragging rights).
Maybe we'll buy a set (have to be SLK friendly) and we'll do the dyno. I'm sure we'll be satisfied with the results.
No we do, but we have learned that honestly nobody believes claims anymore and the best dyno results are 100% independent dyno results done by customers, thats why we have started our new Dyno Rewards program. It does matter how many in house dynos you do, people are just naturally skeptical. This way people are able to participate and save a some money at the same time and the positive results from customers is the best form of advertisement.
Good points though Anthony, our main goal is not peak HP, in fact not many of our parts are designed for peak HP (although they do make peak gains). AMS main goals have always been strong low end to mid range torque & HP gains throughout the power band because this its the most crucial area for acceleration. Making 10HP at only 5500+ rpm honestly isn't going to do much at all (but you are right about the bragging rights
). By creating gains throughout the entire power band you greatly improve the overall engine performance instead of just one very narrow portion of the power range. Again, for pulley & headers those numbers are on track, you may be +/- a few HP depending on how many mods you have and etc but overall those are realistic real world numbers. We are not the type to give bogus claims like 25+ from software chip alone and etc, its just not going to happen in the real world.
We are just glad to be able to finally provide performance parts for the non-AMG W210 community (although we do E55s as well) which honestly is suffering badly from a lack of performance options, and at an affordable price.
Thanks
~AMS~
Last edited by AMS Performance; Jan 21, 2009 at 11:04 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 293
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From: Chicago
2002 E430 4MATIC
Help a skeptic understand the physics
Looking at the dyno results for HP and torque increases for the E55 crank pulley, AMS shows improvements in the range of 10% for both torque and HP.
Well......if a 60% reduction in mass results in a 10% increase in torque/HP then mathematically, a hypothetical 100% reduction in mass would result in a 16% improvement. Meaning that the stock pulley must have parasitic drain of 16% of the total torque and HP available at the rear wheels (Give or take). I'm sorry, I don't get it.
The other thing I don't understand is how the dyno test is performed. Specifically, watch your tach at full throttle in say...3rd gear, how fast are your RPMs increassing at say 3,700rpm....now try to imagine that you need 20hp to accelerate a 5lb? little pulley at the same rate.
My mind says it would take less than a 1/3 horse electric motor to spool up a pulley. Doubts, how long does it take your garbage disposer to spool up?
Maybe I just looking at this all wrong so please but me back on track.
Well......if a 60% reduction in mass results in a 10% increase in torque/HP then mathematically, a hypothetical 100% reduction in mass would result in a 16% improvement. Meaning that the stock pulley must have parasitic drain of 16% of the total torque and HP available at the rear wheels (Give or take). I'm sorry, I don't get it.
The other thing I don't understand is how the dyno test is performed. Specifically, watch your tach at full throttle in say...3rd gear, how fast are your RPMs increassing at say 3,700rpm....now try to imagine that you need 20hp to accelerate a 5lb? little pulley at the same rate.
My mind says it would take less than a 1/3 horse electric motor to spool up a pulley. Doubts, how long does it take your garbage disposer to spool up?
Maybe I just looking at this all wrong so please but me back on track.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 293
Likes: 3
From: Chicago
2002 E430 4MATIC
After three beers with a very smart friend....
Here we go.....Let's assume that the total mass of a factory Pulley w/ balancer is 4lbs and that the radius is 4". Let's go worst case and say that the entire 4lbs is distributed along the outside circumference of the pulley.
Let's also assume that we have an E430 for weight and performance calculations. OK....let's go full throttle in first gear with a brake torque launch at 2000 rpm. You will hit red line at about 40mph in 4 seconds.
So how much power does it take to spool up the 4lb mass, 4 inches from center, accelerating from 2000 rpm to 6000 rpm in 4 seconds?
Well........drum roll.......about 2hp. Reducing the mass by 60% will free up about 1hp at full throttle in first gear. Improvements in higher gears would decrease proportional to decreases in acceleration rates. e.g. 0 - 40mph comes up a lot faster than say 60 - 100mph. Therefore less power is needed to spool up the pulley.
Perspective?? How long does it take your 5hp lawn mower to spool up a 5lb 19" blade when you engage it? About 1 second 0 - 3000rpm. The center of mass is on a radius of about 5".
Ohhh don't forget, that the rotating mass at 6000 rpm works FOR you once you get it up to speed. For example a lighter pulley will actually cost you horse power on the upshift as it would have less momentum.
To calculate torque use
Moment of force (aka torque) = (mass)*(radius)^2*(angular acceleration).
I don't have enough beer to solve it. But my guess is it would be 1.5 and 5' lbs depending on RPM.
Again, if I'm off base out in left field please enlighten me.
Let's also assume that we have an E430 for weight and performance calculations. OK....let's go full throttle in first gear with a brake torque launch at 2000 rpm. You will hit red line at about 40mph in 4 seconds.
So how much power does it take to spool up the 4lb mass, 4 inches from center, accelerating from 2000 rpm to 6000 rpm in 4 seconds?
Well........drum roll.......about 2hp. Reducing the mass by 60% will free up about 1hp at full throttle in first gear. Improvements in higher gears would decrease proportional to decreases in acceleration rates. e.g. 0 - 40mph comes up a lot faster than say 60 - 100mph. Therefore less power is needed to spool up the pulley.
Perspective?? How long does it take your 5hp lawn mower to spool up a 5lb 19" blade when you engage it? About 1 second 0 - 3000rpm. The center of mass is on a radius of about 5".
Ohhh don't forget, that the rotating mass at 6000 rpm works FOR you once you get it up to speed. For example a lighter pulley will actually cost you horse power on the upshift as it would have less momentum.
To calculate torque use
Moment of force (aka torque) = (mass)*(radius)^2*(angular acceleration).
I don't have enough beer to solve it. But my guess is it would be 1.5 and 5' lbs depending on RPM.
Again, if I'm off base out in left field please enlighten me.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,072
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From: Pittsburgh,PA, Cambridge, Ontario, CN
2003 S210 3.8L Brabus wagon
Here we go.....Let's assume that the total mass of a factory Pulley w/ balancer is 4lbs and that the radius is 4". Let's go worst case and say that the entire 4lbs is distributed along the outside circumference of the pulley.
Let's also assume that we have an E430 for weight and performance calculations. OK....let's go full throttle in first gear with a brake torque launch at 2000 rpm. You will hit red line at about 40mph in 4 seconds.
So how much power does it take to spool up the 4lb mass, 4 inches from center, accelerating from 2000 rpm to 6000 rpm in 4 seconds?
Well........drum roll.......about 2hp. Reducing the mass by 60% will free up about 1hp at full throttle in first gear. Improvements in higher gears would decrease proportional to decreases in acceleration rates. e.g. 0 - 40mph comes up a lot faster than say 60 - 100mph. Therefore less power is needed to spool up the pulley.
Perspective?? How long does it take your 5hp lawn mower to spool up a 5lb 19" blade when you engage it? About 1 second 0 - 3000rpm. The center of mass is on a radius of about 5".
Ohhh don't forget, that the rotating mass at 6000 rpm works FOR you once you get it up to speed. For example a lighter pulley will actually cost you horse power on the upshift as it would have less momentum.
To calculate torque use
Moment of force (aka torque) = (mass)*(radius)^2*(angular acceleration).
I don't have enough beer to solve it. But my guess is it would be 1.5 and 5' lbs depending on RPM.
Again, if I'm off base out in left field please enlighten me.
Let's also assume that we have an E430 for weight and performance calculations. OK....let's go full throttle in first gear with a brake torque launch at 2000 rpm. You will hit red line at about 40mph in 4 seconds.
So how much power does it take to spool up the 4lb mass, 4 inches from center, accelerating from 2000 rpm to 6000 rpm in 4 seconds?
Well........drum roll.......about 2hp. Reducing the mass by 60% will free up about 1hp at full throttle in first gear. Improvements in higher gears would decrease proportional to decreases in acceleration rates. e.g. 0 - 40mph comes up a lot faster than say 60 - 100mph. Therefore less power is needed to spool up the pulley.
Perspective?? How long does it take your 5hp lawn mower to spool up a 5lb 19" blade when you engage it? About 1 second 0 - 3000rpm. The center of mass is on a radius of about 5".
Ohhh don't forget, that the rotating mass at 6000 rpm works FOR you once you get it up to speed. For example a lighter pulley will actually cost you horse power on the upshift as it would have less momentum.
To calculate torque use
Moment of force (aka torque) = (mass)*(radius)^2*(angular acceleration).
I don't have enough beer to solve it. But my guess is it would be 1.5 and 5' lbs depending on RPM.
Again, if I'm off base out in left field please enlighten me.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 293
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From: Chicago
2002 E430 4MATIC
I love Chicago in the summer. Tolerate it in the winter....somewhat.
Right now 10F....wind chill 0F. 10 day forecast....nothing above freezing. Most cars are painted "salt white".
Right now 10F....wind chill 0F. 10 day forecast....nothing above freezing. Most cars are painted "salt white".
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,949
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From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
don't bother trying to argue with omeyhomey (i.e. ams performance or whatever his name of the day is).
His pullies are worthless, and I wouldn't trust his headers on a lawnmower.
do some reading over at benzworld and it gets embarassing for this individual.
His pullies are worthless, and I wouldn't trust his headers on a lawnmower.
do some reading over at benzworld and it gets embarassing for this individual.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 5
From: Pittsburgh,PA, Cambridge, Ontario, CN
2003 S210 3.8L Brabus wagon
Ditto for Pittsburgh. The salt white color scheme is everywhere. Our place in Fl always seems too hot and the place in Toronto right now is nasty cold with 2-3 feet of white stuff on the ground. Great museaums in Pittsburgh and also the Grand Prix is here in early July for two weeks. Biggest now in the country. That is definitely worth coming here for. Historic races and huge weekend car show (2000+ cars and 5-10K crowd) with really good sized MB turnout. Makes of all kinds assemble on and take over Schenely Park and Golf course for the weekend.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 5
From: Pittsburgh,PA, Cambridge, Ontario, CN
2003 S210 3.8L Brabus wagon
I have read all the other posts on both sites and it is hard to determine whether or not AMS is not with heart and effort in the right place. I do believe his claims may be too large and especially without test proof to back up these claims. Has ANYONE read any test results on his products or can you, AMS, offer any proofs or test results that I might be able to go to in order to better analyze your products for myself? That is the big piece that seems to be elusive in all the posts I have read here and on Benzworld.org site. AMS, if you are still out there can you please respond with proof sources for your claims and a website site to go to in order to read up on this? 
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,949
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From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
99
Wouldn't it be the same for all every pulley made for these cars?
Same results
Evo sports etc..
How about chip, and headers how do these match up to their claims
Same results
Evo sports etc..
How about chip, and headers how do these match up to their claims
Last edited by nsupra; Jan 26, 2009 at 10:26 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 5
From: Pittsburgh,PA, Cambridge, Ontario, CN
2003 S210 3.8L Brabus wagon
Edit.
I have read the AMS website and saw the dyno results on an AMG 5.5. Are there figures for the rest of the product range ie. on the M112 for the headers and for the pulley and for the ECU?
I have read the AMS website and saw the dyno results on an AMG 5.5. Are there figures for the rest of the product range ie. on the M112 for the headers and for the pulley and for the ECU?
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 293
Likes: 3
From: Chicago
2002 E430 4MATIC
found more beer and sharpend the pencil
Assuming a 6lb (2.7kg) reduction in mass of a 4" diameter crank pully.
Assuming a center of mass at 50% of radius (2" from center)
Assuming going from 2000 - 6000RPM in 4 seconds. (Brake torqued hole shot to redline.)
F = M * A (Using metric system)
F = 2.7kg * A
finding A.
2Pi R = Circumference = 12.5"
2000rpm = mass spinning at 23mph
6000rpm = mass spinning at 68mph
68 - 23 = 45mph change in 4 second = 11f/s/s rate of acceleration
11f/s/s = 3.4 m/s/s
F = 2.7kg * 3.4 m/s/s = 9.2 newton
9.2 newton = 2.1 ft lbs of torque.
@ 3500rpm this would translate to 3/4 hp.
About the power of a good garbage disposer.
Assuming a center of mass at 50% of radius (2" from center)
Assuming going from 2000 - 6000RPM in 4 seconds. (Brake torqued hole shot to redline.)
F = M * A (Using metric system)
F = 2.7kg * A
finding A.
2Pi R = Circumference = 12.5"
2000rpm = mass spinning at 23mph
6000rpm = mass spinning at 68mph
68 - 23 = 45mph change in 4 second = 11f/s/s rate of acceleration
11f/s/s = 3.4 m/s/s
F = 2.7kg * 3.4 m/s/s = 9.2 newton
9.2 newton = 2.1 ft lbs of torque.
@ 3500rpm this would translate to 3/4 hp.
About the power of a good garbage disposer.
