Kieran28

Greetings MB gurus!

I'm in the market for a large, affordable family car that isn't an SUV or a mini-van, which leaves a few wagons, including the W210 era E320's. The fact that I am very tall (6'7") means even fewer options, and that I will need to have a child seat behind me, even fewer still... Basically we're considering an A6 wagon, a Passat Wagon (surprisingly enough... quite large inside for such a small car) and an E320. We like the W210 E320 wagon a lot, but are a little hesitant because to afford one means we're looking at 8~10 year old cars with 100,000 miles or more.

Having never owned a Mercedes-Benz before, I'm wondering if any of you can provide some insider knowledge about what owning a high miles 8~10 year old <NOBR id=itxt_nobr_2_0 style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 100%">Benz</NOBR> has in store for us? Are we in for an ocean of repairs over the next 40k,50k,...100k miles? Do I need to budget $2, 5, ... 10,000/year for repairs? I've heard everything about MB's from "they'll last forever if well cared for" to "they are money pits stay away." (wondering what "well cared for" costs?) One owner I talked to said the drive train is top notch and will last a long time, but that the gadgets start failing & cost as much or more than drive train repairs.

Obviously a Passat will not be cheap to repair, but we could afford a much newer model, so I'd feel a little better in that frequent breakage is not in the immediate future. But the E320 sure fits us a lot better.

Also, any thing to look out for as we visit and test drive various W210 wagons? Are certain model years of this era better/worse than others?

This week I'm going to test drive a '99 with ~130,000 miles, and an '02 with ~99,000 miles. The '99 owner is asking well below blue book <NOBR id=itxt_nobr_5_0 style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 100%">value</NOBR>, the '02 owner is asking blue book value.

We live in California, if that matters (no snow, hardly any rain, expensive gas & registration taxes).

Thanks for any tips and/or advice!

TMAllison

Past maint (books and records) is more important than which year IMO. Most owners who have kept up on maint will be happy to prove same.

Most maint and reapirs can be done by a reasonably handy DIY'er. You'll need some torx bits and an assortment of other specialty tools but would prob need those with either of the other two also.

ohlord

I'm coming down to Ca in a few weeks to pick up an 02 for a member on the east coast.Where are you located?
I could find one that will suit you and your family's needs.
Tip.....forget about blue book, it is what dealers use to dupe the dupeful.
Useless in real world private party deals.

fosmith

I agree with the previous poster that condition and level of maintenance is more important than year. The '99 ("pre facelift") will have fewer bells and whistles than the '02 so the cars are a bit simpler. Kelly Blue Book values for these cars are grossly inflated so don't consider paying anywhere near "bluebook value". Edmonds is a better gauge but be patient and shop around and you'll find a good car at a good price. Best is a one or two owner car where they can provide you with service/maintenance records. If you buy from a dealer, you're getting a car that he picked up at auction and you will know nothing about its history and will probably pay more for it as well. This forum and Benzworld can be a great resource if you have the ability to do some work on the car yourself. Otherwise, these cars can be costly to keep up.

Where in California are you located?

Fred

SLOPESTAR

wagon's rule!

more cargo space than the ML's

check the carfax

search outside your area

wagon's were all driven by old folks and soccer mom's unless it has other than stock rims, then the teenagers got a hold of it ...

listen to ohlord!

ron m.

Cool! I'm a teenager! =P


I have a 99 (pre-facelift). My experience has been generally pain-free in terms of maintenance (engine mount change, MAF change, general tune-up, O2 sensors, etc). The only problematic thing I've experienced lately has been the electronic transmission (the control module is underneath the shifter and if you spill something in that area, it's more likely toast). Even that part is not unreasonable in terms of replacement.

My experience with MB parts is that they are not too expensive, given the number of available resources online (the favorites seem to be Autohausaz.com and Mercedesshop.com). I own a 91 Miata and a 92 Ford Econoline that require occasional parts changes due to wear and tear, and the cost for a similar part is on par with the MB (W210s are fairly old and have more aftermarket substitutes).

You can't go wrong with the wagon... third seats rule!

01BlackE320

Regarding your height, I would test drive it and I'm curious to see what you think. I'm 6'1" and find it very roomy but my son is 6'7" and he struggles driving it. I've found the most incredibly roomy vehicles for very tall people to be that Acura MDX (or probably the similar Honda Pilot)

Kieran28

I have test driven a '98 e320 wagon, and it was the most roomy for me of the three cars we're considering (02-05 Passat wagons, 02-05 A6 wagons, and 98-03 e320 wagons) although I found the seats a little hard.

What is your son's inseam? (for dress slacks, not baggy jeans/cargos). For jeans and cargos, a 36" length for me hits the floor these days (newer style, this never used to happen to me in the early 90's). For an honest inseam (i.e. dress slacks) I'm more like a 37"/38" inseam.

Reason I ask is because compared to other tall people (I know several) I seem to be very evenly split between leg length and torso length, possibly a bit longer on the legs side. I can see that if your son is skewed too much either way the e320 might be a little tight. For example, I found the Honda Pilot to have GOBS of headroom, but not that great on letting me extend my legs out in front of me. Few - and I mean like 3, literally - cars I've driven allow me to truly do this... the e320 comes close (my father's '98 BMW 740iL is the best I've driven). Usually what I look for is a decent extension of my legs with lots of knee room for the driver. I hate when my knees end up resting on the door and center console. The Jetta is way smaller than the Passat when it comes to fitting a tall guy & having any room left in the back seat. In an '04 Passat, I could put my seat all the way back (which left me pretty comfortable - way more comfy than in my wife's '95 Land Cruiser), and still had room to put my 2-year old in her Britax Marathon car seat (front facing) behind me (but just barely - her legs were a little cramped against the back of the drivers' seat.)

Thanks for all the responses to this new-b thread. What a great, active forum!

BTW I think someone asked - I'm in the Los Angeles area.

01BlackE320

he's long on the legs and torso, although his legs go on forever. He drives a 2000 Grand cherokee now and seems to be comfortable. I think the problem is has in my car is that he needs to raise the steering wheel. His knees come up very high and he's cramped. I never was in a pilot but I know the MDX has gobs of leg room.
Thanks for the info though, I'll share it with him

Kieran28

He must be mostly legs if he's happy in a 2000 JGC. My buddy has one (he's 6'4") and loves it, but the head room is way too low for me. Actually, the head room is passable (not great) but the roof line comes down so low, that my view is obscured.

I currently drive a 2000 Dodge Dakota Club Cab, and am quite comfy in it. I'd love to keep it, but it can only hold one child seat (in the front passenger seat with airbag disabled) and we have two kids now.

Kieran28

I only used the KBB as a reference, not as an indication of the actual value. For the '99, as far as I can tell, the KBB and Edmunds TMV are pretty close. For the '02, not so much.

The '99 is single owner private. The '02, I'm not sure. The listing states private party, but the carfax shows multiple owners, the last one acquiring very recently, which indicates a dealer of some sort to me.

ron m.

Aesthetically, you may want to opt for a post-facelift car (00 and greater). I'm always envious of the newer stuff that the newer car has (turn signals on mirror, cosmetic exterior and interior improvements). I'd pay a couple of thousands more for the additional bells and whistles.

Toybuilder

Our '99 E320 has had the O2 sensors replaced all around at ~105K miles.
I just had the Crankshaft Position Sensor die at 130K mile.
The window regulator on one rear doors failed somewhere around April 2003, and then the other door's failed a year later.

We have two "wounds" that we're living with: 1) Our tranny has a weird problem with the shifter position sensing during cold weather that causes shifting problems in 'D' (but ok in 1-4). The other issue is that the engine is leaking some oil on the passenger side. Goes through about 1 Qt every 2,500 miles.

There are a few electronic bugaboos as well - the radio occasionally cuts out on the front driver side, one of the instrument cluster illumination bulbs has gone out, and the CD changer periodically jams. These are not serious problems, though.

Other than that, the car has been great in the ~90K miles that we had it since Mar 2003. Not as cheap to maintain as, say, a Honda Civic. But we haven't had a major breakdown.

We absolutely love the roominess and the solidity of the car. And it drives nice (though I personally wish we had the sporty suspension of the later models).

cragigotgame

Get the benz, its a no brainer.

ejsheltra

At 6'5" I drive an 03' wagon. The fit and leg room is ample for me on long drives. I would opt for the multi-contour seats if available or have them retrofitted. They do make a huge difference in long distance comfort. Go for the newest you can find there-bye pushing off the inevitable repairs by a few years. Regular preventive maintenance is key. The fluids are the life blood of the vehicle so change regularly and with a quality product. The post face lift model (6/99 on thru 2003 for W/S210) does have a little more in the way of options and upgrades. But then so does the W211 and so will the future W212. The earlier S210s are just as nice and it just depends upon your particular tastes in design. That being said I love my 2003 S210. At the recent Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix car show I actually had a BMW driver come across the golf course as we were driving out on Sunday just to say he loved the look of the MB wagon even though he drives the BMW wagon. They were looking at it all weekend. And that is a now 7 year old car. That made the whole weekend for me. Enjoy the ride. Lets see if I uploaded some pics of the event correctly...

ron m.

That's a pretty wagon, EJ!

saintz

You probably have loose bolts on your valve cover. It's a 5 minute fix to just tighten the bolts (not too tight). If that doesn't stop the leak, you probably have a bad valve cover gasket. Still shouldn't be too bad.

My radio sometimes does that, too. I assume you have COMAND?

The cluster bulbs are fairly easy to replace. You can buy the bulbs from the dealer (if you want just the one) or online in ten packs (if you're planning ahead).

The CD changer is just plain hopeless.

ejsheltra

Thanks Ron. It makes me happy to drive it and share it with others. My 7 year old is always asking when she can take the Brabus for a drive! Sometimes I will find her in her car seat in the back reading a book while it is parked in the yard under the trees. Its unique but that just makes it fun. Your toys aren't too shabby either.

Hirnbeiss

Get an 02 or 03 with no more than 100K miles. The age will give you a few more years before your rubber and plastic parts deteriorate (and your headliner diseintegrates). Also, it's a post-facelift, so you get the steering wheel controls. Stay on top of the maintenance with this board and you'll be good.

tmandel

Get 4matic if you can -- even in SOCA weather, it's a superior drive system.

Kieran28

Not sure how/why this thread was resurrected, but just FYI, we bought a 2003 e320 wagon in September. It had ~55kmi when we got it, 2wd, not 4matic. By and large it's been great so far.