Alignment Job Results: Rear Tire wear
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2005
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W210 W140
Alignment Job Results: Rear Tire wear
Fellas,
I have gotten considerable uneven tirewear on my rear tires over the past 6 months. The wear looks like the symptoms of my camber being off. Meaning, the inside of the tire is much more worn than the outside.
I wanted to be 100% sure my camber was out, so I took my car in for an alignment yesterday. Here are the results:
Target Data for rear camber is -1.13 +/- .3
Left Rear Camber: Before @ -1.31; After @ -1.32
Right Rear Camber: Before @ 1.52; After @ -1.53
The dealer told me that the car cannot be aligned any further into specifications unless they start replacing parts.
I have 17" Brabus rims with a 235 width tire. Would the rear camber kit from Ghostrider or SpeedyBenz allow me to address the camber issues? Is this the cure? Please let me know your thoughts or if you need more info. Thank you,
I have gotten considerable uneven tirewear on my rear tires over the past 6 months. The wear looks like the symptoms of my camber being off. Meaning, the inside of the tire is much more worn than the outside.
I wanted to be 100% sure my camber was out, so I took my car in for an alignment yesterday. Here are the results:
Target Data for rear camber is -1.13 +/- .3
Left Rear Camber: Before @ -1.31; After @ -1.32
Right Rear Camber: Before @ 1.52; After @ -1.53
The dealer told me that the car cannot be aligned any further into specifications unless they start replacing parts.
I have 17" Brabus rims with a 235 width tire. Would the rear camber kit from Ghostrider or SpeedyBenz allow me to address the camber issues? Is this the cure? Please let me know your thoughts or if you need more info. Thank you,
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Pittsburgh,PA, Cambridge, Ontario, CN
2003 S210 3.8L Brabus wagon
Has your vehicle been lowered by you or a previous owner? if yes then yes the camber adjustable arms will clear the issue. Truly either way the adjustable arms may help bring you into spec and give more range for adjustment. if the car has not been lowered then I would suspect some suspension damage such as bent control arms or worse structural damage to the unit body frame. Has the vehicle ever been in an accident where major body work needed to be done? Just thoughts to check on.
Last edited by ejsheltra; Apr 3, 2011 at 05:58 PM.
Thread Starter
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W210 W140
Thanks for the follow up. Car has never been in an accident. I have a feeling some suspension parts may just need to be replaced as they have worn out. My car isn't terribly out of spec right now, I just want it to be closer to stock spec if I'm going to be buying new expensive tires.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Hollywood, CA
Tectitgrau S210
stock, the rear camber in not adjustable, only the rear toe. However as you change the rear toe the camber changes as well because of suspension geometry. I suspect missaligned rear toe had a lot more to do with your tire rear then the rear camber, which in your case (positive camber) should have made the outside of your tire rear out, not the inside.
For referance, I had -4.4 degrees of camber in the back. Then I got Kmac camber bushings which got it back to an acceptable -2.7 degrees, however more importantly I got the toe back to the factory 0.3 degrees from being way off from the generous lowering and now I'm comfortable that I shouldn't have any significant inside wear.
basically toe eats tires way faster then camber.
For referance, I had -4.4 degrees of camber in the back. Then I got Kmac camber bushings which got it back to an acceptable -2.7 degrees, however more importantly I got the toe back to the factory 0.3 degrees from being way off from the generous lowering and now I'm comfortable that I shouldn't have any significant inside wear.
basically toe eats tires way faster then camber.
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300E a couple 1994 w124wagon E320 Wagon/,1971MGB Track/Rally, MG Midget Autocross ,2000 E320 wagon.
If parts are worn or bent
it is much easier to fix the issue(if not lowered) than it is to install K-mac bushings or camber links.
If you are not lowered r/r the worn parts and you will be into spec.
If lowered it is also best to replace worn or bent parts instead of just tossing on a band aid.
BTW Negative 2.7 is far from acceptable
esp on a lowered wagon.
AND camber being neg on a lowered W210 is far more detrimental to inner tire wear than toe,any day of the week.
If you are not lowered r/r the worn parts and you will be into spec.
If lowered it is also best to replace worn or bent parts instead of just tossing on a band aid.
BTW Negative 2.7 is far from acceptable
esp on a lowered wagon.AND camber being neg on a lowered W210 is far more detrimental to inner tire wear than toe,any day of the week.
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Hollywood, CA
Tectitgrau S210
may wanna look that up once more before you blast false information for the sake of arguing with people like you usually do.
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300E a couple 1994 w124wagon E320 Wagon/,1971MGB Track/Rally, MG Midget Autocross ,2000 E320 wagon.
-2.7
is nearing track specs.
Might suggest I only point out **** poor information that peeps like thou produce out of their ***.
Report back in a few thou when your rear tires are toast.
BTW I never argue information that is correct.
Might suggest I only point out **** poor information that peeps like thou produce out of their ***.
Report back in a few thou when your rear tires are toast.
BTW I never argue information that is correct.
Last edited by ohlord; Apr 20, 2011 at 11:22 PM.
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'08 CL600 with 152k km; '01 E430 4Matic with 433k km; '17 Porsche Cayenne with 130k km
Whatever ohlord posts he's correct on. I, along with several other members, have had this same problem of terrible rear tire wear. You're going to need a set of rear camber arms. There's no other way around it. A few years back, they were a little harder to find, but now, you can go on eBay, type in 'W210 camber arms', and you will find some pretty blue ones for sale. I just took delivery of a W203 and I plan on lowering it, so you know what my next investment is, after springs.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Pittsburgh,PA, Cambridge, Ontario, CN
2003 S210 3.8L Brabus wagon
Whatever ohlord posts he's correct on. I, along with several other members, have had this same problem of terrible rear tire wear. You're going to need a set of rear camber arms. There's no other way around it. A few years back, they were a little harder to find, but now, you can go on eBay, type in 'W210 camber arms', and you will find some pretty blue ones for sale. I just took delivery of a W203 and I plan on lowering it, so you know what my next investment is, after springs.
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Orlando Florida
'07 SL550 80m miles, '98 e430 350k miles - 02 E55 AMG 165k miles - 07 SL550 72k mile
+1. I agree. Rob has been a great help with his knowledge and info. Maybe you should do more listening than badmouthing somebody you don't know. We are all here for the enjoyment of these cars and to get advice and help. There are varied opinions. How about respecting that next time someone knowledgeable offers help.
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From: Bostonian Ma
2012 CLS63 AMG
+1. I agree. Rob has been a great help with his knowledge and info. Maybe you should do more listening than badmouthing somebody you don't know. We are all here for the enjoyment of these cars and to get advice and help. There are varied opinions. How about respecting that next time someone knowledgeable offers help.
+10,000 One would think with five thousand post and counting he would know a thing or two.
Agree with everyone else rear camber arms will be needed to get within spec.
Johnny~
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Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Houston
1999 Silver E55
Being new to this Forum I have no context for evaluating the personal comments that have been posted. Considering the direction this thread took I am reluctant to even post at this point, but I will try to consider this as out of the ordinary until I see otherwise.
Regarding the technical issues raised I have the following observations. The OP listed the Camber readings, but not Toe which are necessary to the complete picture. I am tempted to believe that the Before reading for the Right Rear Camber is a typo and that it was a negative value rather than positive as it seems unlikely that it was adjusted 3 full degrees and out of spec at that. Also, 1.52 degrees would have caused premature wear on the outside edge of the tire and that was not the OP's description.
So it would appear that the Left Rear is .18 degrees off from "preferred" and within tolerance while the Right Rear is .39 degrees off from "preferred" and only a tenth of a degree outside of manufacturer's tolerance. So for the OP to have "considerable uneven tirewear on my rear tires over the past 6 months" it is a reasonable deduction that the Toe values are likely to be off by a considerable amount. And it is an established fact that the same degree of misalignment of toe will cause noticeably greater premature tire wear than the same amount of Camber deviation.
My analysis is based on having performed suspension and alignment service since 1980 and being a Technical Rep for the premier alignment equipment manufacturer for the past 17+ years.
Regarding the technical issues raised I have the following observations. The OP listed the Camber readings, but not Toe which are necessary to the complete picture. I am tempted to believe that the Before reading for the Right Rear Camber is a typo and that it was a negative value rather than positive as it seems unlikely that it was adjusted 3 full degrees and out of spec at that. Also, 1.52 degrees would have caused premature wear on the outside edge of the tire and that was not the OP's description.
So it would appear that the Left Rear is .18 degrees off from "preferred" and within tolerance while the Right Rear is .39 degrees off from "preferred" and only a tenth of a degree outside of manufacturer's tolerance. So for the OP to have "considerable uneven tirewear on my rear tires over the past 6 months" it is a reasonable deduction that the Toe values are likely to be off by a considerable amount. And it is an established fact that the same degree of misalignment of toe will cause noticeably greater premature tire wear than the same amount of Camber deviation.
My analysis is based on having performed suspension and alignment service since 1980 and being a Technical Rep for the premier alignment equipment manufacturer for the past 17+ years.
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300E a couple 1994 w124wagon E320 Wagon/,1971MGB Track/Rally, MG Midget Autocross ,2000 E320 wagon.
Both were
on the neg side with the typo.
He has worn suspension parts or bent on the rear and the w210 is fixed with no great range of adjustment.
I said unless lowered he needs to replace the worn parts and it will be in spec.
If lowered links or Kmac bushings and r/r worn parts will solve the issue.
After over 40 years of building and racing Mercedes and others his issue is not toe related it is busted or worn parts related.
The dealer was correct about that issue.
w210's love the hunter machine and it is the preferred method on the MB model the op runs.If the dealer could have gotten it to spec camber and toe,they would have.
Your input is greatly appreciated. So don't be reticent to jump into the fray
Just because some guy that runs his lowered wagon at a half a degree over 2times spec and feels that it is satisfactory gets riled up over being contradicted
does not mean your advice is not desired.
What line do you rep?
Love them E55's Pic's?
He has worn suspension parts or bent on the rear and the w210 is fixed with no great range of adjustment.
I said unless lowered he needs to replace the worn parts and it will be in spec.
If lowered links or Kmac bushings and r/r worn parts will solve the issue.
After over 40 years of building and racing Mercedes and others his issue is not toe related it is busted or worn parts related.
The dealer was correct about that issue.
w210's love the hunter machine and it is the preferred method on the MB model the op runs.If the dealer could have gotten it to spec camber and toe,they would have.
Your input is greatly appreciated. So don't be reticent to jump into the fray
Just because some guy that runs his lowered wagon at a half a degree over 2times spec and feels that it is satisfactory gets riled up over being contradicted
does not mean your advice is not desired.
What line do you rep?
Love them E55's Pic's?
Thread Starter
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W210 W140
Update:
Getting adjustable camber arms installed today with an alignment on the Hunter machine. Got fresh Michelin Pilot Sports installed last week so this will be timely for an alignment and getting my camber into spec. Fingers crossed. I'll post back on what happens with my alignment specs.
Getting adjustable camber arms installed today with an alignment on the Hunter machine. Got fresh Michelin Pilot Sports installed last week so this will be timely for an alignment and getting my camber into spec. Fingers crossed. I'll post back on what happens with my alignment specs.
Thread Starter
Super Member
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Posts: 731
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W210 W140
The adjustable camber arms did the trick!
Target Data for rear camber is -1.13 +/- .3
Read outs from a few months ago:
Left Rear Camber: Before @ -1.31; After @ -1.32
Right Rear Camber: Before @ 1.52; After @ -1.53
After camber arm install:
Left Rear Camber: -1.1
Right Rear Camber:-1.2
I'm happy!
Target Data for rear camber is -1.13 +/- .3
Read outs from a few months ago:
Left Rear Camber: Before @ -1.31; After @ -1.32
Right Rear Camber: Before @ 1.52; After @ -1.53
After camber arm install:
Left Rear Camber: -1.1
Right Rear Camber:-1.2
I'm happy!
Newbie
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Check the outer bushing too...
Check the outer bushing on the lower control arm. It will be obvious by visual as the bolt will not be centered in the arm sleeve. Mine was shot and I replaced. Now have the remaining control arm kit to replace and bring camber back in alignment.
