Question for the suspension experts...
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 24
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From: San Diego
2001 E430
Question for the suspension experts...
This should probably be asked in the suspension forum, but here goes anyway:
I'm slowly piecing together the W210 E55 suspension for installation onto my new (to me) 2001 E430 because I can't stand the 4x4 look of the car! My reasons for not going with something easier to get (such as H&R or Eibach) is that I don't want to go too low, I want to keep things relatively comfortable, and going with MB/AMG parts is easier to get approval from my wife (I went nuts with my 944 Turbo
, so with this car, I have to be more 'on the sly'). :v
Here is what I'm thinking: I just bought a set of stock E55 springs from a fellow forum reader/poster. I have a source to potentially get the front anti-roll bar from a wrecked E55, and am thinking of using new Bilstein SP shocks (I know they're not 'stock', but I was told that they are as close to stock AMG, and arguably better, as I can find in the aftermarket world).
So my question is: What is the net effect of installing the above, without touching the rear anti-roll bar?
I was told by a local install shop that labor alone for dropping the rear subframe assembly and installing the rear bar is ~ $800. That for sure wouldn't fly with my wife.
Given that I will not be doing the rear bar, should I leave the front bar alone (i.e., stock E430), or upgrade to the E55 front?
Also, if any of you E55'ers out there have upgraded your bars, and would like to sell them, please let me know!
Thanks for any help!
Antony
I'm slowly piecing together the W210 E55 suspension for installation onto my new (to me) 2001 E430 because I can't stand the 4x4 look of the car! My reasons for not going with something easier to get (such as H&R or Eibach) is that I don't want to go too low, I want to keep things relatively comfortable, and going with MB/AMG parts is easier to get approval from my wife (I went nuts with my 944 Turbo
, so with this car, I have to be more 'on the sly'). :v Here is what I'm thinking: I just bought a set of stock E55 springs from a fellow forum reader/poster. I have a source to potentially get the front anti-roll bar from a wrecked E55, and am thinking of using new Bilstein SP shocks (I know they're not 'stock', but I was told that they are as close to stock AMG, and arguably better, as I can find in the aftermarket world).
So my question is: What is the net effect of installing the above, without touching the rear anti-roll bar?
I was told by a local install shop that labor alone for dropping the rear subframe assembly and installing the rear bar is ~ $800. That for sure wouldn't fly with my wife.
Given that I will not be doing the rear bar, should I leave the front bar alone (i.e., stock E430), or upgrade to the E55 front?
Also, if any of you E55'ers out there have upgraded your bars, and would like to sell them, please let me know!
Thanks for any help!
Antony
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2010 X204 GLK350 4matic
No answers but more questions
I would be interested in how your project turns out and DIY-ableness and cost et cetera.
My stock E430 definitely does not have that "glued to the rail" handling and I can't afford to trade in for an AMG nor desire a 5-series.
Do you know for certain H&R, Eibach et cetera do not have less "sporty" versions that give performance but not lower the car too much? For BMW cars at least, they provide different versions of stiffness and lowering.
What about bushings, mounts, et cetera that may require more robustness to handle the stiffness?
turns out and DIY-ableness and cost et cetera. My stock E430 definitely does not have that "glued to the rail" handling and I can't afford to trade in for an AMG nor desire a 5-series.
Do you know for certain H&R, Eibach et cetera do not have less "sporty" versions that give performance but not lower the car too much? For BMW cars at least, they provide different versions of stiffness and lowering.
What about bushings, mounts, et cetera that may require more robustness to handle the stiffness?
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: San Diego
2001 E430
Those are all very good questions/comments. Before I began my quest to make my E430 look better (I too can't afford the E55 at this time), I did some research.
This is one of the best threads that I could find on the subject: https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w210/42684-suspension-tuning-2001-e320.html
The suspension upgrade was done by "Kwik", and his car looks perfect (to me). Plus, I figure with the weight of the V8 (he has or had the E320), it should sit closer to the E55 without having to use significantly thinner pads (but from what I've read, you never know till you get into it!).
Also, from what I've read, most aftermarket manuf. do make 2 or more versions of the springs with varying stiffnesses and drops, but I'm trying to use as many MB/AMG parts as I can.
I'm anticipating having to use at least 1 step thinner spring pads, perhaps 2 steps thinner. Like I said, I won't know for sure till we get into it. Other than that, from what I understand, there really isn't anything else that I need other than the springs, pads, shocks, and bars. Also, I read that if I go beyond a 2" drop, I should plan on a camber adjustment kit. Someone please correct me if I'm missing something.
I was quoted $280 in labor at a local San Diego Benz perfomance shop to install the 4 springs, pads, and shocks. They said to figure an extra $45 to install the front sway bar at the time of installing everything else. After that, I know I will need an alignment. My dealership won't touch that stuff (plus, I now hate the dealer for other reasons
). So, although I've done all the work on my Porsche myself, I just don't have the time to devote to this project, so I'm going to professionals.
I'll definitely post pictures of before and after once the project is completed.
Antony
This is one of the best threads that I could find on the subject: https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w210/42684-suspension-tuning-2001-e320.html
The suspension upgrade was done by "Kwik", and his car looks perfect (to me). Plus, I figure with the weight of the V8 (he has or had the E320), it should sit closer to the E55 without having to use significantly thinner pads (but from what I've read, you never know till you get into it!).
Also, from what I've read, most aftermarket manuf. do make 2 or more versions of the springs with varying stiffnesses and drops, but I'm trying to use as many MB/AMG parts as I can.
I'm anticipating having to use at least 1 step thinner spring pads, perhaps 2 steps thinner. Like I said, I won't know for sure till we get into it. Other than that, from what I understand, there really isn't anything else that I need other than the springs, pads, shocks, and bars. Also, I read that if I go beyond a 2" drop, I should plan on a camber adjustment kit. Someone please correct me if I'm missing something.
I was quoted $280 in labor at a local San Diego Benz perfomance shop to install the 4 springs, pads, and shocks. They said to figure an extra $45 to install the front sway bar at the time of installing everything else. After that, I know I will need an alignment. My dealership won't touch that stuff (plus, I now hate the dealer for other reasons
). So, although I've done all the work on my Porsche myself, I just don't have the time to devote to this project, so I'm going to professionals.I'll definitely post pictures of before and after once the project is completed.
Antony
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: San Diego
2001 E430
Out of curiosity, is there a write-up anywhere for dropping the rear subframe assembly? Has anyone done it themselves?
I've done the clutch on the 944T twice (drop tranny & torque tube, etc.), steering rack, engine mounts, and belts & rollers all on my driveway without a lift. How hard could it be? (famous last words!)
I've done the clutch on the 944T twice (drop tranny & torque tube, etc.), steering rack, engine mounts, and belts & rollers all on my driveway without a lift. How hard could it be? (famous last words!)
Almost a Member!
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Los Angeles, California
2002 E320
Suspension change
I changed the suspension on my 02' E320. I have a friend who works at MB dealer, so I was fortunate not to have to pay for labor. I put the Carlsson RS suspension on mine, this is matched shocks & lowering springs(I also have Carlsson 2/5 18" staggered set up). I did not change the sway bars. Initially I had a #1 spring pad in front & #3 in back. It looked way to "ricer" in front to me. So, I change it to a #4 spring pad in front & kept the #3 in back. There is approximately 3/4" gap between top of fender and top of the wheel. The car sits level all the way around.
I assist my friend on the changing of the front spring pad (this basically entails removing spring & shock) the second time around and it took the two of us a maximum of 15 mins. I did not assist with the rear but according to my friend (who is a suspension specialist) it is a real *****.
The car rides very smooth, almost like stock. The real noticeable difference is at higher speeds the car is not "floating" when hitting bumps.
When going into turns fast I have pitched the car sideways a few times (yes, I am a bit reckless), so if you like going into sharp turns faster than 35 miles an hour I would recommend the thicker\stiffer sway bars.
I assist my friend on the changing of the front spring pad (this basically entails removing spring & shock) the second time around and it took the two of us a maximum of 15 mins. I did not assist with the rear but according to my friend (who is a suspension specialist) it is a real *****.
The car rides very smooth, almost like stock. The real noticeable difference is at higher speeds the car is not "floating" when hitting bumps.
When going into turns fast I have pitched the car sideways a few times (yes, I am a bit reckless), so if you like going into sharp turns faster than 35 miles an hour I would recommend the thicker\stiffer sway bars.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 24
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From: San Diego
2001 E430
I'm looking for comments on the outcome of only upgrading the front bar as opposed to upgrading both front and rear. Like I said, I understand that upgrading both will improve handling while turning. I just didn't want to adversely affect the handling of my car by increasing the front while leaving the rear stock E430.
Thanks,
Antony
Thanks,
Antony
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 486
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From: Music City
2010 E63 AMG, 2000 E430 Sport, Dodge Charger SRT8
I will be glad to give you my "2 cents" for your project. I have modified my 2000 E430 Sport. The E55 springs are not going to lower your car much at all. I would forget about doing the sway bars (labor is too high) and go with a standard set of Eibach springs with your stock pads (depending on what they are). The Bilsteins sound good too. This will improve your handling, not destroy your ride, and hopefully keep everyone happy. The route I went was:
Eibach springs
#1 pads, front and rear
E55 AMG Bilstein shocks
H & R sway bars
My car is nice and low, fairly stiff, rides and handles great.
Eibach springs
#1 pads, front and rear
E55 AMG Bilstein shocks
H & R sway bars
My car is nice and low, fairly stiff, rides and handles great.
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Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: San Diego
2001 E430
Thanks MikeyE430, that's exactly the kind of input I'm looking for. Actually, I saw a picture of your car before I bought mine, and it made me want Brilliant Silver. Your car is excellent! If I had my way, I'd most likely follow the same upgrade path.
I've already checked my spring pads, and I have #5 in the rear and #4 in the front (strange to me, but from what I've read, it's all a crap-shoot!). So I'm planning on using the stock E55 springs with #1 pads all around (or perhaps a mix of #1 and #2 to make things even, if needed) and the Bilstein SP shocks.
I know it won't lower the car THAT much, but it will still be lower than it is right now. To tell you the truth, I'd be happy with a 1" drop all around (combined E55 springs + thinner pads). I don't want it to look obviously lowered. In fact, I'd prefer it if the 'layperson' was unable to tell that anything has been done, unless it's sitting next to or near a stock one! That's why I'm cool with the AMGs.
The labor to replace the front sway bar is not that much, and after poking my head under there this weekend, it seems to be pretty easy. Of course, the rear is out of the question.
So are you saying that having 2 stock E430 sway bars is better than having the E55 bar up front and the stock rear???
BTW, did you install the H&R bars yourself? Or have a shop do it? Just curious.
Thanks,
Antony
I've already checked my spring pads, and I have #5 in the rear and #4 in the front (strange to me, but from what I've read, it's all a crap-shoot!). So I'm planning on using the stock E55 springs with #1 pads all around (or perhaps a mix of #1 and #2 to make things even, if needed) and the Bilstein SP shocks.
I know it won't lower the car THAT much, but it will still be lower than it is right now. To tell you the truth, I'd be happy with a 1" drop all around (combined E55 springs + thinner pads). I don't want it to look obviously lowered. In fact, I'd prefer it if the 'layperson' was unable to tell that anything has been done, unless it's sitting next to or near a stock one! That's why I'm cool with the AMGs.
The labor to replace the front sway bar is not that much, and after poking my head under there this weekend, it seems to be pretty easy. Of course, the rear is out of the question.
So are you saying that having 2 stock E430 sway bars is better than having the E55 bar up front and the stock rear???
BTW, did you install the H&R bars yourself? Or have a shop do it? Just curious.
Thanks,
Antony
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 486
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From: Music City
2010 E63 AMG, 2000 E430 Sport, Dodge Charger SRT8
Hey Antony, thanx for the compliments on my ride. What I am saying about the sway bars is if you replace only the front, you are going to add a lot of understeer to the handling. In your case, I would totally forget about sway bars unless you replace them both.
With the AMG springs and #1 pads you will see around an inch, maybe a bit more.
I had the Mercedes dealer do the bars. They charged me $568 labor to do both. This includes my 10% discount. 8 hours labor charge.
Good luck!
With the AMG springs and #1 pads you will see around an inch, maybe a bit more.
I had the Mercedes dealer do the bars. They charged me $568 labor to do both. This includes my 10% discount. 8 hours labor charge.
Good luck!
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 24
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From: San Diego
2001 E430
Thanks for the info MikeyE430. The dealer that I bought the car from refuses to do that sort of work (even if using AMG/MB parts), yet they have no problem keeping my car for 5 days just to check the climate controller for error codes and fill a small paint chip!
I suppose that I'll forget about the bars all together (which will speed up the lowering process since I won't have to locate them!). Am I going to regret not having done the bars? I hope not!
Oh well, anyone else have insight as to whether or not I should pursue the sway bar (front only)?
Otherwise, I'm on track for lowering within the next few weeks (springs are enroute to my house via UPS).
Thanks again,
Antony
I suppose that I'll forget about the bars all together (which will speed up the lowering process since I won't have to locate them!). Am I going to regret not having done the bars? I hope not!
Oh well, anyone else have insight as to whether or not I should pursue the sway bar (front only)?
Otherwise, I'm on track for lowering within the next few weeks (springs are enroute to my house via UPS).
Thanks again,
Antony
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Joined: Mar 2005
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tight handling and low look
On a 97 E420, I went with Eibach pro kit, #1 pads, and koni yellows. The difference when cornering is unbelievable. The car does not sway and grips the pavement like a boxster I recently drove. However, yes there is a however; the koni shocks, even on the softest adjustable setting, ride harsh around town. If you drive over a dime on the road you can feel it, plus I have low profile tires, 215x40 fronts and 225x40 on rear on gianelle 10 flush chrome 18x8.5. In terms of people noticing the "lowered look" most simply think the car is some sort of special mercedes, unless they are true mb nuts, they dont even know what model it is or have a clue about ride height (removed the numbers on the rear). Best of luck with your project, the dune buggy look is out in my opinion!
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From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
You will get more drop from the pads than from the US spec E55 springs. I saw an E55 that had Euro spec springs installed with #2 pads all around. About 3/4-1" lower than my car with #1 pads and US spec springs.
As far as upgrading the front bar only, don't do it. These cars have a tremendous amount of understeer already. Changing the front without the back will only make it worse.
IMHO, if I were putting this together for myself, I'd try to keep the stock (non-E55) springs and upgrage the shocks and bars only. My E55 has a pretty damn stiff ride.
As far as upgrading the front bar only, don't do it. These cars have a tremendous amount of understeer already. Changing the front without the back will only make it worse.
IMHO, if I were putting this together for myself, I'd try to keep the stock (non-E55) springs and upgrage the shocks and bars only. My E55 has a pretty damn stiff ride.
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From: Columbia, SC
E300
The front sway bar you can do on your own, it's sooo easy to remove it.
I will also be installing some E55 springs on my diesel with probably #1 pads up front and a 2-3 in the rear. I want the car to look level with a full tank, hence the #2-3 pads for rear. Do that seem about right in regards to the rear pad size?
I will also be installing some E55 springs on my diesel with probably #1 pads up front and a 2-3 in the rear. I want the car to look level with a full tank, hence the #2-3 pads for rear. Do that seem about right in regards to the rear pad size?
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From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
Originally Posted by michakaveli
The front sway bar you can do on your own, it's sooo easy to remove it.
I will also be installing some E55 springs on my diesel with probably #1 pads up front and a 2-3 in the rear. I want the car to look level with a full tank, hence the #2-3 pads for rear. Do that seem about right in regards to the rear pad size?
I will also be installing some E55 springs on my diesel with probably #1 pads up front and a 2-3 in the rear. I want the car to look level with a full tank, hence the #2-3 pads for rear. Do that seem about right in regards to the rear pad size?
The pads are used to balance the height. I think my car had #2/#3 F/R from the factory. Most others I've seen have wider staggered pads.
