guanabara

as far as the filter goes, as indicated on that site with the recommended oils, only the fleece element type should be used for the full FSS period. If you use the original regular paper filter it should be replaced every 5000 miles at least or mid period for the oil change.

"229.5 engine oils must be used with fleece oil filter designed for use with 229.5 engine oils."

following is what I found on
www.alloemautoparts.com as far as filters for the 99 E320. Notice the higher cost recommended fleece filter.

A6002-132846 Oil Filter Kit Fleece Mann $13.99

A6002-105626 Oil Filter Kit Paper Hengst $8.00

diffuzi0n

hey guanabara,
i was just curios as you why you go to such extent to prove that amsoil is a better product?

diffuzi0n

isnt ur tranny sealed? also i have never seen driving around any place that does oil changes and says amsoil.... i wonder why they are not more popular.

guanabara

I will use a simple example in good taste for your brilliant comments:
what is made with more pure ingredients :
Hershey's or Godiva?

Does that mean that because you don't see Godiva chocolates in each street corner it is not good?

It is more expensive and not everybody can afford or give it the value it deserves.

As to the Transmission it does not have a dipstick, unless you buy one as I did. When you see problems that people run into after their warranty expires then you start to wonder what "lifetime" really means. As I see it for manufacturers lifetime means it will last past their warranty.

I will let you know how the transmission oil test results come out.
Just be patient man,.

diffuzi0n

i bought the kit today. When should i expect it to come?
Merchandise Total: $25.20

State Tax: $2.08
Shipments Total: $27.28

Grand Total: $27.28

diffuzi0n

how do you tell between the fleece filter verses the paper filter?

guanabara

That I don't know.
I can only tell you that I ordered 4 oil test kits last friday and got them yesterday, so it took them 3 days to get them to me.
I also ordered the european blend oil for the MBs and the 5W30 (25,000 miles)oil for the Aztek along with the special filter they make for it. If the weather is not so nasty in the DC area this weekend, I will get the oil replaced ofor all cars and sampled for the lab tests.
I did get the oil flush bottles to make sure that all the gunk is diluted before removing the old oil and installing the new one.
Even though I have a Topsider to syphon the oil out, this time I will be draining the oil from the bottom.
I did also get an additive (PI?) for the gasoline that removes the carbon deposits in the carburation system. It is in a concentrated form (16oz) and I needed to use only 8 oz for the first tank. After that I should be able to get away with just 1.5oz per tank. I find that specially the Aztec seems to miss that additive when I go without using it for a while.
I should be posting news on that by the end of next week.

guanabara

when you order them there are 2 types that are offered. The fllece type costs usually 50% more and it is properly identified..

As far as visually seeing a difference I will have to open the packages I have for my cars at home to see if there is anything that stands out.

guanabara

That's a very good point, as paper filters are very important and should be replaced half way through the FSS cycle or 6 months.

There is a new fleece element filters that supposedly can be used for the fulll FSS cycle.

I found it on the following web site:
www.alloemautoparts.com (no this is not a disguised amsoil site for the cranky ones )

Remember to check your oil level every month at least. Top it off with the same type of oil in the engine when the level is getting close to the minimum mark.

Hattaresguy

Guanabara I just can't stay quite any longer, Amsoil uses Mobil 1 base stocks and adds their own additives. Sure on some engines you can run 20k+ oil changes but not just with Amsoil that is bs and I think you are a salesman. Try running Amsoil for 20k miles in a 240D or in a 617 see where that gets you. They are both very similer oils and both very good oils. But MB does reccomend Mobil 1 0w-40 actually for most of the newer cars. Heck I was at the dealer yesterday looking at a new E500. It not only had plastic Mobil 1 floor matt covers but a Mobil one sticker on the front cross member. Heck behind the counter of the parts department only Mobil 1 is in sight.

But you do sound like a salesman, hmm maybe I will do a search on your posts and see if every one is an Amsoil plug. What are the MBworld rules again?


As to the trans fluid only MB fluid should be used! These are very expensive trans so don't mess with them. A dealer change costs about $200 if you can't afford that don't buy a MB.

guanabara

I am a happy Amsoil oil user for 6 months now on my wife's E320 and soon to be on all my 3 cars.
there is more to loving your cars besides the cost and incovenience and price of dealer oil changes.

As to using the Mobil1 oil as a source of base oil for Amsoil, I never heard of that. where did you read it?
In fact I read that Amsoil started making thir synthetics for cars since 1974, much before anybody else was even drimming about selling or making one.
I also read that they applied for a patent to place the following statement in their oil bottles: "The first in Synthetics". Before it was granted all oil companies were given the opportunity to contest it, because they claimed they were the best. Not a single one raised a word and the patent was granted. That is the motto I read on the bottles I just got for my oil changes this weekend.

are you a mobil1 salesman?
the fact that a company gets commissions to patrocinate an oil brand does not mean that it is the only oil you can use. If you are happy with Mobil1 then stay happy. Don't unload on someone that is happy with something else.
Enjoy life . it is short enough already.
Have a beautiful and great sucessful day.

diffuzi0n

SO can MB OEM fleece filter withstand these 10k intervals? Or does it have to be AMSOIL? so we can only buy amsoil through mail orders?

guanabara

if you were to read my posts on the filters and see the links they connect you to, you would see that the filters are made by either Bosch or Mann or another german name and they are sold by well known internet car parts retailers. The ones you buy at the dealers are probably made by one of those companies but have a different box with a different markup.

FYI, from what I could find, Amsoil never made filters for european cars (neither paper nor fleece). They only have top of the line filters for US cars and even then, they seem to recommend changing those filters at 5000 to 6000 miles intervals.
I did order my first one for the Aztek this week and cannot comment on its performance yet.
They do seem to have pretty good filtering qualities (efficiency and size of particles retained) identified on the technical data I was able to get online though. The filter box also had the performance comparison with major filter brands done by independent labs.

The MB own requirements 229.5 is the one that recommends fleece paper filters for extended service. If they recommend that, then I trust them ( but still verify as the great president Reagan used to say). That is the filter type I am using on the MB cars. I believe the one I got was made by Bosch.

You need to read up a bit more on this before blasting people with your comments .

michakaveli

Bottom line... Amsoil does make really good oils. So does Royal Purple for some applications but no need to go there.

Sure since Mobil 1 is all over thousands of front cross-members on many Benz's may illustrate that their oil is definately suitable for use in their vehicles. IS it possible that Mobil has a tie with MB or at least MB is subsidized by Mobil by using their oil as the choice for factory fill and installing their decals? That sounds more like a sales pitch I would think.....

Is there a better oil than Mobil 1? Probably. But why do I fo instance stick to Mobil Delvac 1? Becuase I know it works and is still cost effective for the job it does in my vehicle.

On this note, I'm curious to why Mobil has a decal on even the '99 E300 diesels. Mobil one isn't specifically rated or designed to suspend and control the soot in the oil. Delvac 1 is, and I have yet to see their decal on a cross-member. If they had one I would definately get one :-)

Hattaresguy

It is probably a sales pitch, I am sure in some dark office somewhere a Mobil rep and MB rep banged out a nice deal. Mobil is a much larger company then Amsoil so they can work deals. Ferrari doesn't use either last I heard, they use an Exon brand if I remember correctly.

michakaveli 0w-40, 15w-50 are both light duty diesel rated, ie more then enough for our cars. They are fully capible of suspending the 2% soot limit MB specs. Amsoil also has a nice 15w-40 on the market, to bad I can't get it at Autozone I would use it. The same goes with Delvac, if Mobil would make the stuff availible I would use it. I refuse to order oil.

I am still looking into that Frantz filter, then I could run 100k+ changes if I wanted.

guanabara

As far as the filter goes I read that there are what they call bypass filters that allow you to go for quite a while before flushing them. In fact they are used mostly in the diesel truck fleet, but there are some variations now available for cars.Going for 100K without filter change is a long while. It would need a large surface area to maintain the filtering efficiemcy without clogging up and openning the safety bypass valves and then going unfiltered.

I find that when I go to autozone or advance auto parts, I end spending a lot more than I was expecting to, on the things I was planning to buy, if you know what I mean (COSTCO syndrome). Way too many toys out there. I like using the advance auto parts site for reference and to order products so that I can pick them up at the store and not have to wait if they are out. That happens often on specialized items such as K&N filters and even wipers for MB lately. Some stores don't have a good stock management and it is frustrating to get there and find half of what you want not in stock. I think they do that on purpose so that you have to go back and buy more toys.

For the small shipping fee I have decided it is not worth lloosing time at stores and then having to go back for all I wanted and in addition buying a lot of other things that I don't really need. Just recently I came to realize that most if not all oil additives sold at those stores have been fined by the FTC for deceiving advertisemnet. Some are blatantly corrosive. They mask out the test results in some areas and show only the "good" things.
The recommendation in the MB manual clearly states not to add those after market oil additives, but not many people read their car manuals from top to bottom as some of us do.
Have a great weekend.

michakaveli

Hatty, WalMart has Delvac 1 on their shelves... It's re-badged as Mobil Truck & SUV. They have a bunch of Walmarts in CT, one of them near you has to have it. I've been getting mine from Walmart for at least a a year...

Hattaresguy

Yep I have been trying to find a Walmart that stocks Delvac One. I found it once last fall but ever since then they are always out our have only a few quarts on the shelf.

guanabara you bring up a very good point about additives. Slick 50 is a big one anybody who uses that stuff anymore is an idiot. Every claim on the bottle they cannot legally make anymore. Also remember the Z max system!
http://www.frantzfilters.com/products.htm
Check these guys out, you need to change the TP every few thousand miles but last I checked at roll is about .50 cents.

guanabara

I got some updates since my last postings here.
As I indicated before, I went ahead and did the oil change on my 2 cars (99 E320 , 99 C230 and 01 Pontiac Aztek) this past week.
2 of the cars had M1 and the 99 E320 had Amsoil 10W30 (25,000 miles rated). They all had about 6 months of oil use. I collected a sample for lab analysis on all 3 cars. I am mailing that in on 3/22. Results shall be coming online shortly.
While replacing the oil I installed all AMSOIL blends (european 5W40 for the MB cars and 5W30 for the Aztek) on each car. So 1 year from now I will do 2 lab analysis on the MB cars to see how that compares. Note that I will wait 6 more months on the AMSOIL oil when comparing to the M1 which was used for 6 months only. Why? It would be an overkill to drain the LONG life AMSOIL at 6 months mark.

Another interesting thing I would like to bring to your attention is that in all cases I drained the oil through the drain plug, after the engine had warmed up and allowed 5 sec of oil to drain first before taking a 3 oz sample.
An interesting thing that I noticed is that on the 99 E320, if you drive up on ramps, like those used for home car maintenance, the drain plug is not located on the lowest part of the oil tank. I pulled out my Topsider (oil sucking machine) , stuck its hose through the oil dipstick pipe and was able to remove an extra 8 oz of oil (a full large cup's worth). I was really surprised with that. The same did not happen for the 99 C230 because the drain plug is located on the lowest corner of the oil tank when you drive up a ramp. Maybe if you drive up only the left front wheel of the E2320 then you should be able to get most of the oil to drain naturally.
If anybody does oil change at home, you may want to look at those oil extractor machines. They do a great job and cause a lot less mess (I had to pressure wash a part of my driveway (after using absorbing material to remove the oil excess), as some oil spilled over the little drain collection tank I had)

I have seen a good fluid extractor for sale (58-20=38) on Boat US store flyer I received this week (It is valid from 03/24 to 04/03). their web site is westmarine.com or call 1-800-BOATING. Those oil extractors work just as well on car fluids extraction, except fuel of course for safety reasons. Proper care shall be exercised to avoid getting dirty on to the draining hoses and also to avoid mixing fluids if using it to drain something else besides engine oil. Use kitchen plastic bags to keep the used hoses clean and also to avoid having a mess with the oil that will invariably drip from the hoses after use.
Next week I should be able to report the oil analysis results and even offer the site links for your viewing pleasure.

X72

Here is a a couple of pictures of the Mann Fleece Oil Filter I got for my 03 E 320 (W211). I think the filters are the same for the the V6 W210. I got my filter at www.allgermanparts.com for a $14 each.
William
2003 E320

zam2000

That's what I thought too, until one time I changed oil w/o resetting the FSS, and was surprised to see that the FSS resets itself, but for only 3K miles (manually reset would give 10K).

michakaveli

I wonder if that would work for my w210 diesel. And if there would be any benefits?

X72

Michakaveli, I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep doing whatever you have been doing. It seems to be working. I don't think that the filter I posted is the right size for your car. The fleece filter is for the super long drain intervals that the FSS indicates (up to 20,000 miles). I usually do the oil changes more frequently because I do long road trips, and I don't want to have to do an oil change along the way. I do feel comfortable going up to 12,000 miles. We'll find out if that is folly in a few years, although I think that other components of the car will fail way before the engine gives.

William
2003 E 320

Gregs210

To the people that took the time to contribute to this thread, I just wanted to say a hearty thanks. The details on the variations between synthetics -- as well as MBZ's recommendations for the FSS engines -- really provided some great information.

One tip for those of you with the 320: I'm a get-under-it-and-drain-it guy and if you are too, use both ramps on the driver's side of the car (or in my case I pull the left side up on the curb, which is just enough room to get under it and the perfect angle to drain the oil). That keeps the pan level front to rear and since the plug is on the right side of the pan, you'll get it all. If you do drain it, be sure to get a replacement washer (it's copper and compresses). Last tip: be sure to get an oil filter kit, and not just the filter. There are several O-rings in the filter assembly and they do dry out; you'll get all of them in the kit and you'll want to replace them.

Thanks again everyone for all the good info, and enjoy the ride.
Greg

guanabara

Thanks Greg, that complemented the thread quite well.

And now for what we have all been waiting for.

The oil analysis for my 3 cars came out on 23 March.

here is a summary. For those who would be interested on the full summary please send a private message.

Car======oil used======Iron=Boron==Molybdenum=Visc100=NITR=TBN
99 E320==AMSOIL 5W30===5===86=====10=======10.20==1.0==11.8
99 C230==MOBIL1 0W40===11==135=====80======10.27==17.0==8.7
01 Aztek=MOBIL1 5W30===50===166====102======10.93==24.0==9.3

All the cars above had their oil changed about 6 months before the test was done. The lab indicated that the results were normal and that no corrective action was necessary at this time. All oils were indicated as good for continued use, but I was planning to change all to Amsoil for a future comparison, so I went ahead and changed the oil on all cars to start at exact the same tiime.

Note the major indicator of engine wear which is iron (WOW, double the wear with Mobil1 on MB engines?). Moly is also a good wear indicator, but Mobil1 chooses to use it as an "additive" so the comparison is not straight forward (I believe that the starting value for Moly is 60 on Mobil1 so that would equate to an adjusted value of 20 and 42 for the above last 2 cases).

I have no doubts on what to continue using from now on, based on scientific evidence.

Note the TBN value for Amsoil way higher than the Mobil1 oil. Note that it is ok down to 2.0 in general, but a higher starting and standing number after 6 months has a lot to say as to what oil will protect my engine parts against rust better.

all the cars above have had their oil changed to Amsoil european formula (5W40) (MB) or Amsoil 5W30 (Aztek) at this time. I will do the same test 1 year from now (no sense in wasting money changing the oil anytime sooner with Amsoil. I will definetely change the oil filter at 6 months intervals though)

A final note: (documented by photos of cruise computer displays)
My 01 Aztek average mileage (indicated on cruise computer) was 18.6 MPG on Mobil1 prior to oil change (total of 5600 miles or 6 months). It went up to 19.9 after replacing the oil with Amsoil 5W30. This is not added to brag about any oil quality as it is common sense to expect that a fresh oil with lower viscosity and more additives will be better for the mileage than an used oil. I have just done this test to debunk an online garage test site reported elsewhere on this thread, who posted that when they changed from Amsoil oil (with 14000 miles) to a fresh Mobil1 their test car mileage improved by 10%.
If with 5600 miles on the Mobil1 oil I got 7% better mileage when switching to a fresh Amsoil, then who knows how much better the savings would have been if I had waited another 8 months or 8,000 miles?

Voila, here is the truth. It might hurt some feelings. That was not the intention.

I am glad now that I will be able to go through the full manufacturer recommended mileage on the engine oil (10000 miles or 1 year) without worrying about doing any damage or causing any abnormal wear. In the process I will actually save a lot of time (and $$$) for the combined waiting time for all 3 cars oil change at the absurd 3 months or 3000 miles intervals many are still stuck with by virtual ignorance. In the process, I will be doing my part to reduce our dependency on middle east oil and reducing environmental polution.
I understand that Amsoil is made in the USA with US synthetic oil base materials.