RJC

The new Automobile mag has a sad story on just how bad MB quality is. MB ranked #1 in the German people's prestige factor out of all 34 brands, but in actual reported quality MB came in 33rd of the 34 and not by Americans but Germans! How sad, how true, and how did they let Schrempp f*ck up such a great company by letting him insist back in the late 90's all suppliers must drastically cut costs of all parts supplied to MB, yes electronics too. This guy came perilously close to getting canned, just not close enough!

Would someone be kind enough to scan this for all to read.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Geee.... I guess someone there screwed up and built me a good one. With nearly 16,000 miles on the clock and my one year anniversary coming up, this car has been nearly flawless and a dream to drive....

RJC

Quick go knock on wood...

ruykava

"knock on wood" too

btw nice to see you again RJC

yup i'm very interested in seeing this article and how they do their rankings. i have german friends whom, having NEVER owned or driven any cars, tell me merc is unreliable and BMW is the best, so i'm really quite intrigued

psh1959

My first 3 to 4 months with my 04 E320 were a nightmare (electrical / electronic gremlins). However the last 12 months have been trouble free. I can forgive the early problems but what is truly troublesome is that the car is not a "quality" vehicle when compared to MB's of yesteryear. Fit and finish have slipped, signs of wear are showing up that I would not have expected even after 3 or 4 years of use.

MB picked up some bad habits from Chrysler. The E class is configured in the broadest range of perhaps any car on the planet (In Europe they are used as taxis and the interior/exterior is very utilitarian, in the US you can get a E500 loaded with every option imaginable). Because of this the upper end E class feels like a dolled up Ford Taurus, basically a cheap car wearing a veneer of fancy clothes. This "veneer" is not aging well.

luxury1

I bought my car in July 2004 (new) and I have 30,000 miles on it now. It really has been pretty good although I have had some problems: check engine light at 100 and 350 miles. Now fixed. Radio/Nav unit not working sometimes. Heated/Ventillated seats occassionally not working. Other than this the car has been great.

I personally expect problems with the German cars but I still think that there really is no substitute for the all around package (prestige, fit and finish, style, etc.). I'll tell you what, if Mercedes somehow finds a way to make these cars as reliable as the Japanese then watch out car market...

DWP

We would need to see the story to draw any conclusions from it. "Actual reported quality"? What's that mean? People can't report on the "quality" of their cars; that's a totally subjective judgment. A statistically-valid sampling drawn from car owners on how many problems they have encountered might be useful, but anecdotal reports from self-selected owners are useless as a measure of "quality." The JD Power reports are the closest thing I know of to a valid survey; the Consumer Reports surveys are interesting but they aren't statistically valid. If Automobile mag wants another self-selected anecdotal report, I'll be glad to tell them that my early '03 E500 has been almost flawless in 18 months of ownership, and the "almost" part has been very minor. But then, I'm an easy-to-please American/Canadian, not a German, so what do I know?

mleskovar

"...carried out last year of more than 38,000 members of ADAC, the German equivalent of the AAA." They ranked image vs. customer satisfaction ("ownership experiences"). The orders of placement in each category were almost exactly reversed. No, I do not have a scanner.

PHYBENZ

MBE55AMG

This is balogne to me. My car, in my opinion is just fine. I don't let articles who bash MB discourage me buying another Mercedes-Benz.

konigstiger

MBUSA should convince Mercedes-Benz senior management to create a separate quality team in the United States instead of continuing to rely on engineers an ocean away!

RJC

Thanks ruykava...

RJC

MB quality is and has been on the decline and its not just this magazine or article that has arrived at this conclusion Even MB themselves have admitted there is and has been a serious problem and are working feverishly to get things sorted out...no company likes being at the bottom of almost every quality ranking year after year, especially the one's that used to be on top!

RJC

Thank you PHYBENZ for scanning the article.

ThemisN

The only thing wrong with teh article is that this is old news. In fact, MB has already started its trend back up in using better materials etc in their vehicles then they had been of late. BMW on the other hand, hasnt gotten a clue and has a very cheap interior in the 5series. That would be more up-to-date and news worthy than this subject.

RJC

It old news yes, BUT unfortunately, continuing news. We'll see how MB does for their '05 models in initial quality, my instinct tells me the JD Power #'s and others will still have them near the bottom of the barrel.

PHYBENZ

I don't think we will see a change in MB's JD Power ranking until about 2006, but it would be nice to see them move up a couple of spots. They have improved the cup holders on their cars, so that should mean at least a couple of spots boost

BudC

I couldn't care less about Initial Quality. I'm more interested in 3 years or even longer.

psh1959

Quality or Reliability?

What are they measuring? My definitions would be something like this: "Reliability" ratings would refer to things going wrong with the car. "Quality" refers to the materials, design, and construction of the vehicle.

A Hyundia may have a better reliability rating but the "quality" is certainly not comparable to the MB.

Nevertheless, MB has slipped in both areas. It is the "quality" slip in my 04 E class that has me worried. This is where MB really needs to get it right with the next version. But if not MB where do you go? - BMW has its own problems and a soul-less Lexus hardly seems appealing.

W210

Japanese brands may have good initial ratings but they squeak and rattle like crazy after a few weeks of ownership. Both of our Hondas have squeaks and rattles dealers cannot fix.

My E55 with stiffer suspension has been trouble free.

Dema

For some reason I had too many problems with Lexus, so I count days when my lease ends. Friends of mine also reported about certain problems with Japanes makes. So I do not trust much the reports.

glojo

Hi Konigstiger,
I tend to agree with 99.9% of your posts, but I thought your vehicles were indeed inspected when they arrived on US soil?

Regarding the article, I always find it farcical how easily some people are 'suckered' into believing a sensationalised story where the author wants to grab headlines. Anyone can conduct a poll to get the answers they want. It is simple and WRONG. How many people polled, actually owned a Mercedes-Benz? If offered, how many people would want a Mercedes-Benz instead of the car they owned.

JD Power has continually wrote 'stories' about vehicles they know absolutely nothing about. I will always use there extended test of the 320CDI as an example. Even I know the difference between an in-line six cylinder engine, and a V6, which sadly JDPower does not.

Show me one car manufacturer that does not have problems and it will be the first. (Including Lexus\Toyota)

I have read opinions stating the E-class in Europe is used as a taxi. Yes indeed, in some countries you can buy a taxi pack. This should never be confused with the E-class that you and I drive. We certainly do NOT drive a 'cheap' vehicle with a few expensive options. I have seen S-class taxi's especially now that they have the ""V6 320CDI"" (No it is NOT the new V6, it is me having a dig at JDPower)

Of course Mercedes-Benz has had problems, but I would not swap my vehicle for ANY other estate on the market. (Full stop)

I defy critics to name a better estate car. We have test driven both the Audi and BMW so please do not volunteer those. Plus I have served my Volvo time and do not want another.

Boy, have I got out the wrong side of the bed this morning.

Regards,
John

A cool sunny morning in Torquay

krispykrme

I will totally disagree with this one.

I am driving around daily in a barebone E500 with only premium pkg. The interior material is about as good as a a $25k camry/accord. The leather/plastic does not stand up to dirt that well. My daughter sit in the front and would often brush her dirty dance show on the front seat, the glove box area, and drag her bookbag on the door. The carpet on the car is already stained pretty badly and could not be cleaned to original level. My glove box is diry with shoemarks that is also impossible to get all out. So far after 15k miles, my E500 interior looks very beat up and tired.

My $40k minivan stood up much better to my daughter's abuse after 22k miles and does not show as much of damage than my base E500.

I have not owned the new E60, but from my limited experience, the base E60 material is actually better than base W211. BTW, go out and find yourself a base W211 (especially one without unpgraded steering wheel- i.e. none wooded). I have to say the base W211 steering wheel is by far one of the cheapest steering wheel outthere. The stiching is rough, the contact surface is rough, and the airbag cover is also rough (by the way the E55 steering wheel with wood trim is by far one of the best steering wheel).

The problem with mercedes interior material is that the material used can't be justified by its price tag. My base E500 i believe listed a $60k back in 2004. It has interior material no better than a $25k family car. If you want better material you need to pay extra $$$$ for it. For $60k, the other german competition and japanese competition all offer better value.

krispykrme

that's because you bought a honda.

I never had any luck with honda prodcut. I do think and firmly believe that honda is way over rated as a quality automobile manuf. I have owned 4 honda product (brand new, not counting used one that i picked up for fun and mod). I have truly reliable honda (except brake warp issues). Rest of them I can't not say its better than my current mercedes (in fact much worse). None of the honda can even come close to being a good assembled cars.

Not all Japanese brand means quality. I do feel that a lot of magazine in US tends to over state japanese quality (especially with honda/acura).

However this should not be used to generalize performance about other japanese car makers. I have owned 4 toyota/lexus previously. None of them developed any kind of rattles. Almost no mechanical issues nor electronics issues. Although toyota car is really boring, they do make good reliable cars. I really hated my old 1993 camry V6 as that thing just would not die. Give it gas is just drives like it did 1st day i own it. Smooth and boring. (BTW, i really hated that car as i really wanted to replace it. But it just won't die. It's like having a ghost haunting you every day).

W210

Talking about Camry, we did inherit a 1990 which had a nasty rear suspension squeak whenever we went over speed bumps, never bothered going to the dealer as I expected it to be part of the experience. Sold it shortly after.

Hondas are definitely squeaky (both our 2002 and 2004 do squeak and rattle), perhaps Toyotas are better, but looking at the Sienna models in Canada, they don't even offer navigation and I couldn't stand those orange plastic all over the dash.

At the end, we got the Odyssey which has the nicer and better equipped interior, less pathetic handling but without AWD and xenons. Oh well, life is about trade-offs. At least I can now have that lady read out Zagat reviews when we look for the new restaurant to try out.

A little disappointed with all the Honda quality though, the 2002 Odyssey went through a transmission recall, our driver told us the mini-van almost died on him, the side doors, glove compartment all rattle like crazy, the rear brakes clunk every time we reverse out of gear (which Honda Canada tells us is normal). But then, at least they hold their value thanks to the in-my-opinion over-rated Japanese reliability mysticism.

Perhaps they should call it Toyota quality, but then, didn't the Sienna have those nasty throttle problems or engine oil issues?

All I can say is Honda is rated higher than MB in CR but I find MB far more reliable, we should take these reports with a grain of salt.