Is this overkill?
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Is this overkill?
as you all know, we get a "Free" inspection of the car at between 1000-3000 miles. Also, the break-in is for the first 1000 miles. Common sense tell me that the break-in causes larger than normal metal fragments to become suspended into the oil and so I am going to ask my dealer to also change the oil ($120 extra charge) at my 1000 miles inspection.
Am I too much? I for one plan to do oil every 6500 miles (and not the 13000 the book calls for), but even with that, I feel that the first 1000 miles worth of driving leads to too much contamination of the oil to keep in the engine for another 5500 miles, let alone 12000...
Anyone else agree?
Am I too much? I for one plan to do oil every 6500 miles (and not the 13000 the book calls for), but even with that, I feel that the first 1000 miles worth of driving leads to too much contamination of the oil to keep in the engine for another 5500 miles, let alone 12000...
Anyone else agree?
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From: Sacramento
'08 AM Vantage V8 - '03 E500
You're certainly correct about the Conventional Wisdom. CW does say that oil on a new car should be changed after about 1000 or 2000 miles because of the dreaded Metal Particles Buildup. I've followed that CW with the few new cars I've owned. Be that as it may, no doubt somebody has a different opinion, that modern cars are built to such exquisite tolerances that they would no more shed metal particles into the crankcase than dandruff.
I'll tell you what really is "overkill": $120 for an oil change. Yeah, I know synthetic oil is costly, but $120?
I'll tell you what really is "overkill": $120 for an oil change. Yeah, I know synthetic oil is costly, but $120?
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E500 4matic, 2014 GL320, 2013 C300, 2015 Stingray
Oil change...
I am one who thinks that babying the cars during breakin is not as big a deal as others IMO (so far as driving goes). HOwever, i do beileve that changing the oil early on is something that could only do some good. However, i question that even if there are large particles of metal, isn't that what the oil filter is for??? So if the filter's doing its job, it will get the metal particles and trap them in the filter. Thus changing your oil will at most eliminate metal particles that are just breaking off and not at the filter yet or soo small that the filter can't "filter" them. Either way - someone enlighten me if my understanding of how a oil filter works is incorrect but i still don't think its overkill - do it!
Aceman
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2004 E500
Originally Posted by HELL ONA HARLEY
In a word..... YES....
I've changed oil religiously on all my cars every 5k miles without any engine damage whatsoever. With synthetic oil, 10k frankly seems reasonable.
Happy customers are repeat customers - you can argue all you want about planned obsolesence, but in the end it's the repeat revenue that sustains any business.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Some varying opinions it would seem.. I am going to err on the side of caution, but I think rather than take it to the Dealer for the $120 gauge job, I'll get some Mobil 1 0-40W and have the local MB independent shop do it. Then I'll stick to a 1/2 factory schedule of 6500miles per change.
I know that some feel that the break-in is not as important as it used to be, but you can never be too safe I always say.
Thanks for the opinions.
I know that some feel that the break-in is not as important as it used to be, but you can never be too safe I always say.
Thanks for the opinions.
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From: By the City by the Bay, CA
2001 E320 (210.065), Brilliant Silver; 2002 Ducati ST-2, Arrest-me Red
Hi, Sam.
Count me in among those who agree with you about the 1K initial oil change. I don't think that's as necessary as it used to be in the olden days (since technology now builds things to much better tolerances, there's fewer particles floating around) but even at the $120 ripoff price point, I'd sleep better knowing it was done.
As far as 6,500 thereafter, that's all a matter of opinion, but unless you're particularly hard on how you drive (lots of short trips, rapid acceleration all the time, high revving to shift points, etc.) you should be good at least until 10K. In my old domestic car I changed to Mobil1 at 35K when I bought it used. At first I was doing changes at 5K and then went to 10K with a filter change at 5K. The oil always came out looking excellent and the car ran great until after 150K (when I bought the Benz) with no more oil consumption than it had at 35K, which was very little anyway and much less than it's brethren with fewer miles. No visible sludge, etc. and better mileage than others of it's ilk as well. Made me a BIG believer in Mobil1. Based on that experience I decided when I bought my Benz I'd follow the FSS but never more than 10K; but that's probably still overkill, particularly with the oil capacity in these engines.
Hey, there's my 2 cents worth! No matter what, enjoy the ride, man.
Greg
Count me in among those who agree with you about the 1K initial oil change. I don't think that's as necessary as it used to be in the olden days (since technology now builds things to much better tolerances, there's fewer particles floating around) but even at the $120 ripoff price point, I'd sleep better knowing it was done.
As far as 6,500 thereafter, that's all a matter of opinion, but unless you're particularly hard on how you drive (lots of short trips, rapid acceleration all the time, high revving to shift points, etc.) you should be good at least until 10K. In my old domestic car I changed to Mobil1 at 35K when I bought it used. At first I was doing changes at 5K and then went to 10K with a filter change at 5K. The oil always came out looking excellent and the car ran great until after 150K (when I bought the Benz) with no more oil consumption than it had at 35K, which was very little anyway and much less than it's brethren with fewer miles. No visible sludge, etc. and better mileage than others of it's ilk as well. Made me a BIG believer in Mobil1. Based on that experience I decided when I bought my Benz I'd follow the FSS but never more than 10K; but that's probably still overkill, particularly with the oil capacity in these engines.
Hey, there's my 2 cents worth! No matter what, enjoy the ride, man.
Greg
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
I disagree that it is no longer important to be careful when you break in a new engine. What is it about the current M112/M113 engines that make them any different than previous Mercedes engines...not a damn thing!!
Of course of you lease or trade every few years, it's not your worry.
Every European auto manufacturer that I know about recommends a break-in procedure. They do it for a reason. If one or more American manufacturer's don't do it, so what. They aren't interested in long term relibility anyway. They never have been.
They're more interested in playing games with their CAFE averages than in building cars that will run for decades.
We drove our 190D for 17 years and only sold it because we moved. It still got more than 4K miles on a quart of oil when we sold it.
My 1991 300E gets over 5K.
My new E320 appears to have only used .3 liters in 7,000 miles. Each one of these cars was carefully broken in.
I also plan to change oil before the FSS system tells me to. I should have done it before now but I have two new knees which has kept me from doing the work. I simply won't pay a dealer $100/hour to change the oil.
Of course of you lease or trade every few years, it's not your worry.
Every European auto manufacturer that I know about recommends a break-in procedure. They do it for a reason. If one or more American manufacturer's don't do it, so what. They aren't interested in long term relibility anyway. They never have been.
They're more interested in playing games with their CAFE averages than in building cars that will run for decades.
We drove our 190D for 17 years and only sold it because we moved. It still got more than 4K miles on a quart of oil when we sold it.
My 1991 300E gets over 5K.
My new E320 appears to have only used .3 liters in 7,000 miles. Each one of these cars was carefully broken in.
I also plan to change oil before the FSS system tells me to. I should have done it before now but I have two new knees which has kept me from doing the work. I simply won't pay a dealer $100/hour to change the oil.
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From: Tampa, Florida
06 SL65 / 97 993tt /11 Suburban/ 2012 GTR (AMG è la mia Famiglia la Bestia è la mia protezione)
Originally Posted by Sam Samaha
Some varying opinions it would seem.. I am going to err on the side of caution, but I think rather than take it to the Dealer for the $120 gauge job, I'll get some Mobil 1 0-40W and have the local MB independent shop do it. Then I'll stick to a 1/2 factory schedule of 6500miles per change.
I know that some feel that the break-in is not as important as it used to be, but you can never be too safe I always say.
Thanks for the opinions.
I know that some feel that the break-in is not as important as it used to be, but you can never be too safe I always say.
Thanks for the opinions.
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From: So Cal
2010 RRS ; BMW K1200R; 14 E350 ; 14 RRS on order
Lol
Originally Posted by C43AMG
$120.00 for an oil change....does that include the "cover charge" and a "lap dance" ? 
You guys ever heard of changing your own oil and saving $100? It takes about 10 minutes total and you can get the filter from your dealer. I for one am leasing so I'll stick to the schedule but honestly I would change every 4000 miles if I owned it.
T
Last edited by TREZ63; Jun 16, 2005 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Addition
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From: Lone Star State.
W211 2005 CDI, X166 2013 350 BT, 997.1 2008 C4S
Check this thread out. It's enough to make you stop and think that earlier oil/filter changes are a good thing. See post #7. Very informative. I for on will be changing my oil every 6500 miles as a I drive the heck out of my car in very hot and dusty conditions. Plus, I would like to keep it for 300K+ miles.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/92554-service-e-class-211-usa.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/92554-service-e-class-211-usa.html
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From: Sunny S. California
03 E500
Originally Posted by Sam Samaha
as you all know, we get a "Free" inspection of the car at between 1000-3000 miles. Also, the break-in is for the first 1000 miles. Common sense tell me that the break-in causes larger than normal metal fragments to become suspended into the oil and so I am going to ask my dealer to also change the oil ($120 extra charge) at my 1000 miles inspection.
Am I too much? I for one plan to do oil every 6500 miles (and not the 13000 the book calls for), but even with that, I feel that the first 1000 miles worth of driving leads to too much contamination of the oil to keep in the engine for another 5500 miles, let alone 12000...
Anyone else agree?
Am I too much? I for one plan to do oil every 6500 miles (and not the 13000 the book calls for), but even with that, I feel that the first 1000 miles worth of driving leads to too much contamination of the oil to keep in the engine for another 5500 miles, let alone 12000...
Anyone else agree?
At $120 is a bargain from the dealers, considering Mobil1 super synth costs $4.99 each quart we need 8.5 qt for E350, that around $48 for oil $20 for filter and $30 for a local shop to change it. Plus getting those parts takes a lot of driving around and shopping on the net to buy, where at a dealer it's a one stop shop.
Last edited by Dvinn; Jun 16, 2005 at 05:30 PM.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
It looks like the majority are in the affirmative on a 1000 mile break-in change, and a few even want to do like me and change every 6500 (vs 13000) miles. I just can't see it hurting, only helping.. and the $120 is chump change on a $60000+ investment (tax, license, and car).
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From: THE NAPA VALLEY, CA
Build date 2-04 E500
If you consider this car an investment, then you did poorly. Secondly, this car will literally fall apart around your motor reguardless if you change your oil too early (and you are) or change it as recommended by the company who designed it and built it.
Talk about investments.... I only wish I invested in Mobil and was your mechanic....
Talk about investments.... I only wish I invested in Mobil and was your mechanic....
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From: Murrieta, Southern California
Late Built 2005 W-211 E-320 CDI
Not me , McGee.
Originally Posted by Sam Samaha
It looks like the majority are in the affirmative on a 1000 mile break-in change, and a few even want to do like me and change every 6500 (vs 13000) miles. I just can't see it hurting, only helping.. and the $120 is chump change on a $60000+ investment (tax, license, and car).
It is hurting your wallet, and my Scottish nature to see you wasting so much money!
'Course if you've such deep pockets so that you can afford to throw good
money away for no good reason, that's entirely up to you.
It's too bad that those old ideas die so hard.
The days of three thousand mile oil changes are long gone.
Even VW used to say for the TDIs and maybe still does with the new PD
diesels to NOT change the original factory fill until five thousand miles.
Then it's every ten thousand miles thereafter.
Those of you that insist on changing your oil so early are only making the oil
companies richer, and aren't they getting rich enough already?
Why not do an early oil analysis and let that relatively inexpensive 'blood test'
for your CDI determine when you should be changing your oil?
I think you'll be surprised!
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Hey Harley, I used the term investment poorly in this case.. but then it does have more than one meaning, and when you spend a significant amount of money on anything, whether it's supposed to earn you money or not, one tends to apply the term (incorrectly or otherwise) investment. Clearly I have no intentions to make money with the car, nor have I an IRR in mind for it.
That said, my point was, since in my case I'll be keeping for about 7 years (at least 2 years into the next E class) and well over 100,000 miles, a $90-120 extra service 2 times per year (costing me not more than $1000 or so over the 7 years) is a lot better than $3500 for a new engine or major fix at 51,000 miles.
Consider it "self insurance" and not an investment that I am doing this. As my original question asked... "am I overkill?" .. I guess it is overkill, but then I'll sleep better at night doing it.
My curse was to study Mechanical Engineering as my undergrad, and all of my memory of various labs where metal grinds on metal comes to mind. Even with the best oil, metal is going to come off... this is far more likely at 500 miles, than at 5000 miles.. so the majority of your contamination is going to happen early on.. do you want to keep it in your crankcase for the next 12000 miles? I don't... but you can if you'd like.
As for MB telling me I can change my oil ever 13000 miles... that's fine, but they want to sell you parts and new cars, not keep you in that same car for 20 years. That may have been the mind set of a MB of the past, but todays MB is more American in their corporate planning, and less German. Think "quarterly earnings, and sales growth"
That said, my point was, since in my case I'll be keeping for about 7 years (at least 2 years into the next E class) and well over 100,000 miles, a $90-120 extra service 2 times per year (costing me not more than $1000 or so over the 7 years) is a lot better than $3500 for a new engine or major fix at 51,000 miles.
Consider it "self insurance" and not an investment that I am doing this. As my original question asked... "am I overkill?" .. I guess it is overkill, but then I'll sleep better at night doing it.
My curse was to study Mechanical Engineering as my undergrad, and all of my memory of various labs where metal grinds on metal comes to mind. Even with the best oil, metal is going to come off... this is far more likely at 500 miles, than at 5000 miles.. so the majority of your contamination is going to happen early on.. do you want to keep it in your crankcase for the next 12000 miles? I don't... but you can if you'd like.
As for MB telling me I can change my oil ever 13000 miles... that's fine, but they want to sell you parts and new cars, not keep you in that same car for 20 years. That may have been the mind set of a MB of the past, but todays MB is more American in their corporate planning, and less German. Think "quarterly earnings, and sales growth"
Last edited by Sam Samaha; Jun 17, 2005 at 09:54 AM.
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From: Mansfield, TX
11 ML350W2 / 17 GLC300
Sam,
I agree with you on changing the oil earlier than the FSS intervals. I have talked with several of the techs at the dealership. Many of these are driving MB cars themselves. They give lip service to the factory FSS intervals and change their own MB car's oil at 5,000-7000 miles.
I agree with you on changing the oil earlier than the FSS intervals. I have talked with several of the techs at the dealership. Many of these are driving MB cars themselves. They give lip service to the factory FSS intervals and change their own MB car's oil at 5,000-7000 miles.
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From: THE NAPA VALLEY, CA
Build date 2-04 E500
Sam... I understand and respect your decision on changing your oil unnessesarly, but have to ask the question.... why ask our opinions????? You were obviously going to change it early regardless what our opinions were.
I disagree with your point about MB wanting customers to change their oil at longer intervals so to sell more cars. But do beleive its the oil companies that are the ones pushing the early oil changes for obvious reasons... Its been that way for decades, and as Green E-300 DT pointed out these are old habbits that seem to be hard to break. Yea, oil is alot cheaper than engine wear and the oil companies are also well aware of this and prey on the paranoia and "old school" thoughts of consumers... You call it cheap insurance and I call it a waste of money. That being said.... Its your car and your money, so do as you will...
Goodluck and enjoy your purchase
I disagree with your point about MB wanting customers to change their oil at longer intervals so to sell more cars. But do beleive its the oil companies that are the ones pushing the early oil changes for obvious reasons... Its been that way for decades, and as Green E-300 DT pointed out these are old habbits that seem to be hard to break. Yea, oil is alot cheaper than engine wear and the oil companies are also well aware of this and prey on the paranoia and "old school" thoughts of consumers... You call it cheap insurance and I call it a waste of money. That being said.... Its your car and your money, so do as you will...
Goodluck and enjoy your purchase
Last edited by HELL ONA HARLEY; Jun 17, 2005 at 06:10 PM.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
I asked so that I can see if I'm in the minority view or majority view, but you're right, I'm not going to sway on it. That said, I feel better as I've got quite a few guys who are apparently as crazy as me, and some less so..
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From: Columbia, SC
E300
Originally Posted by Sam Samaha
I asked so that I can see if I'm in the minority view or majority view, but you're right, I'm not going to sway on it. That said, I feel better as I've got quite a few guys who are apparently as crazy as me, and some less so..
Since you are "only" going to keep the car until approx. 100K, then don't strees yourself. Granted you spent a lot of money on a vehicle that you want to make sure will be problem free for the duration of your oenership but changing the oil so early without any objective results is indeed overkill.
I too was interested in the oil change interval on my diesel, so I perform oil analysis to objectively show me what is going on with th eoil in my crankcase. On my E300 with the OM606 diesel, I can safely travel 8,000 miles on the same oil and keep going a safe additional 4,000 if I wanted to. Keeping in mind that my engine is indeed broken in with 168,000+ miles while your's is brand new.
Also you need to consider the increased efficiency, cleanliness, etc between your diesel engine and my OM606 are worlds apart. I would definately give that oil in your crancase some more time to do what it needs to to let everything settle in and seat properly.
