HELL ONA HARLEY

I Agree 100%....
But hey bud... Quit beating around the bush and tell us what you really think....

B.T.W... I crack-up on people that buy these cars and THEN figure out that they could've bought a jap car at half the cost with more "free" options and them come here and cry, whine, vent, rant, etc about it... I wonder what they REALLY bought a Mercedes for if not for quality construction and saftey features...

CE750

clearly this is getting no where.. we have a case here of people who fit into a certain philosophy that says long list of options are the way to go on a car, vs people who say a car in a certain price range should have most of this as standard. Just because a Honda at 1/2 the price has all of these items standard, doesn't mean I want one Bud.. just means I want more from MB, safety engineering not withstanding.

I guess I'm just disappointed that the one car maker that I would have never guessed to joint that bandwagon (at least here in the US) was MB. I guess my problem here is that some of you guys seem to think (ahem.. Harley) that if some one has a complaint about something than he's completely unsatisfied and should run out and rid himself of the car, and get another. I like 90% of this car, I just have one complaint, that's it.. lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. I guess I am a perfectionist and even though I own some of the nicest products of their kind (cars, computers, watches, pens, audio etc.. etc...) I am never completely pleased with any of them, I always demand more.. and more. That is after all what consumerism is all about and free markets would not properly function if we all "drank the cool-aid" poured by the big companies.

nuff said.

Dema

I think S comes with xenon as standard. Actually I see a big advantage of E class that you have plenty of choices. When you buy cheaper car everything is standard so you stick with that.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Sam I agree with you about wanting more for your money, but my point is you and others had complete control and the freedom to buy what ever you wanted to. You saw what came with the car and what did not.... You bought the car knowing the facts but rant about the short comings????
Sorry, I can't understand the rants. I guess I'm different then most...When I make a bad decision I either change it for the better or get rid of it, but would never cry about it to anyone as it does absolutly nothing for your problem(s).

Anyway, I'm glad to read your at least 90% happy with your purchase. I'm happy to report that I'm 100% happy with my decision to purchase a Mercedes Benz
Happy trails to you and your family...

krispykrme

who is paying attention to US. Government test only?

I guess IIHS is not for real either.

Forget crash test? heck, why not forget every stats outthere.

The truth is that in current market any decent 30k car would offer excellent leve of safety.

You are also wrong in many aspect regarding MB safety feature. For example, no one knows that Airbag and anti-submarin seat actually was developed by GM back in 1960.
The 1st production car that comes with Airbag is 1973 Oldsmobile Tornado . NOT MB either.

the 1st car with ABS is actullay Ford Fiesta (mechanical, instead of electronic controlled). In addition, MB did not developed ABS, it was bosch.

If you dig into automobile history even further, you will also find that traction control and vehicle skid control is also not pioneered by MB.

I am not doubting that MB spend a lot of R&D to make car safer. However, everyone else is doing the same. For you to slam other manuf and boast DCX image is just beyond stupid because reality is always different from dreamworld.

Do i think MB is overpriced. Yes, I do. But like some poster said clearly, you are buying not only the product itself but company image as well. We do pay a premium for that.

But if you want to do a deep analysis of what we paid vs what we get in return and toss out the brand image. The conclusion is that the car itself is not a good value proposition based on what DCX is charging.

In addition, we are also paying for mercedes service. Despite my dissappointment with DCX product, the dealership service is 2nd to none. There is value in getting excellent service as well.

krispykrme

The problem is that the price than must be reduced.

I have no problem with long option list, in fact i liked it that way since we can all customize.

However, MB must be able to reduce the price to stay competitive.

For example, my recent M45 costed me $55k fully loaded with sport pkg, a better nav, and rear dvd screen. Going with same option on the E500 would be close to 70k, in addtion, let's figure in another 5k for Steve's mod for euro command and rear screen. We are looking at $75k car, a full $20k higher.

Throw aside the price issue for now. The M45 outperformed E500 in all performance area. It had a much better designed Nav.

If we switched to hood emblem on the M45 to a DCX 3 star and replace the E500 emblem with the infiniti happy smile. I would be 100% sure that everyone on this board is going to laugh how bad the W211 is and how the DCX M45 is so superior.

End of the day, the reason that majority of people here that defend MB for the premium it charges is simply the 3 point star emblem, not the car itself.

BudC

OK, lets talk about crash tests. For years the U.S. Government insisted on frontal only crash testing. The Germans never did well in it because for years they were saying that frontal offset crashes where the most prevalent and were building cars to be safer in frontal offset crashes. Finally, the Insurance Institute came along and agreed with them and that forced the Japanese and Americans to redesign their cars.

I know that Olds had the first air bag but Mercedes were the first to use air bags throughout their entire lineup.

Mercedes were working on ABS brakes but were reluctant to use them because of liability concerns. They went to Bosch and between the two perfected ABS. Mercedes were the first to use the Mercedes/Bosch ABS brakes. Meanwhile, American companies and some Japanese companies were trying to find a cheaper alternative. So instead of using expensive, high speed solenoids they used cheap electric motors to pump the brakes. They've since stopped using this silly approach.

Mercedes invented seat belt pre-tensioners, they were the first to use the ABS system for ESP and traction control. Of course Mercedes invented crush zones and were the first to use disk brakes. I could go on but I shouldn't have to.

Just check out the list of patents that Mercedes own and the proof is there.

I don't' buy Mercedes for the image. I'm not that egotistic. I've been buying Mercedes for more than 20 years because I've found they were the easiest to maintain and with a little TLC would last longer than other brands. In other words, I wasn't forced to buy a new car every few years the way my neighbors were doing.

If people feel they paid too much for their Mercedes, who's fault is that? No one is forcing people to make what they consider bad decisions. I don't rush out and buy something w/o long and careful thought. I spent a lot of time deciding about what car I'd buy to replace my 300E. I came to the conclusion that the only one that made any sense was the E320. Bangel messed up the BMW 5-Series. Lexus hadn't brought out their new GS and they didn't have anything to compete with the E-Class. The Acura is a FWD car and so that was eliminated off the top. Infinity isn't in the same class as Lexus, BMW or Mercedes. They may be trying but they aren't there yet.

CE750

I don't think it's fair to say that every one chooses MB over other competition just because of the badge.... I try to by what is generally known as the best or best in class. I don't always commission a full scientific research project to verify these claims (maybe I should).

I test drove a few cars, but didn't spend hours living in them and tearing apart their standard vs optional lists.. most didn't have too many to be honest at that price range. So, my fault was compounded by the fact that I saw the competition first, such as Audi and BMW, which at the price I was looking at (Mid 50's) came rather well equipped. So when I finally drove the CDI and fell in love with the concept of a powerful, quiet and efficient diesel, I couldn't see past it... I took it for granted that they would be similarly equipped to their competition, I was wrong.

It's fair to say that in my case, I made an assumption that a MB priced in the mid 50's was going to include more, that will never occur again, as I am now schooled. In the future I will pre-order my car with split fold down seats, and premium sound, etc.. Maybe the problem is my lack of diligent research, and maybe it's the sales man who never bother to explain any of these differences... this all combined with my memory of when I used to follow cars (back in the 80's), an MB came with everything... there were little or no options.

All that said, I'm still happy with my purchase.. just a bit disappointed in a couple of area. I really envy you guys are are 100% happy... I cannot think of any area (other than my family) where I feel that way. I guess I'm just a difficult and thankless SOB.

krispykrme

That is not true. If you looked at history of IIHS test you would notice that certain company did well from get go (like Toyota, MB and BMW). While you do have company from germany (i.e. VAG group) that struggled initially with IIHS tough test. The W210 was not the best pick in its class during the 1st test when the driver door popped open. Hence, your statement is not true.

This is not what you said. You said that MB was first to implement SRS in their car. But that is not the case.

Please look at the patent. Bosch is the patent holder on the ABS brake. MB used Bosch's design. simple as that.

In case you haven't noticed, the ABS/ESP/Trac system are often one system because all three system are tied together. Hence MB is not the 1st one to intergrage these three items.

MB was the 1st to come up with crumple zone idea in 1940. That is true.

The disc brake on the other hand is not Mercedes innovation. It is actually british that came up with modern disc brake back in 1950. Hence you are wrong in this as well.


All company will patent its versions of disc brakes/SRS...designs. But it does not mean that they are the original developer. In many cases, they simply copied the basic concept and build variation on top of that. This is the same with all car company and is not isolated to DCX. Hence you can't based DCX patens on its variation to conclude that MB developed all those safety feature when it is simply not the case.

Unfortunately, general public would differ with you and probably choose toyota over DCX in long term reliability. Past performance does not indicate current performance. The current state of thing is that DCX has major quality issues and newer design has not been durable.

Consumers are not stupid. That's why E class sales has been sliding. Simply put, the car is not well designed nor well assembled to compete with competition right now. There is a reason why toyota is now #2 manuf. in the world.

As far as infiniti goes, I will disagree with you. Their new product recently are better than MB by far. May be not on the top end S-class. But both the G and M is better than C and E.

BudC

OK, whatever you say.

sacguy

Agreed Bud C, whatever he says. I won't say anything else.

DWP

OK. Soooo. The base E500 doesn't come with Xenons, then? Ah well. Life goes on.

krispykrme

i just find it amazing that the level of maturity of this forum is still mediocre at best.

truth always hurt. yet, often again, when proven wrong, the response is the beautiful one liner.

MB Fanatic

I think it is you KrispyKreme, that needs to grow up. The thread could have been much nicer had you not made this last uncalled for post. BudC ended the arguing and it should have been left at that. It is amazing to me that you act like a ****ing little child in all your posts, and yet as time passes you never realize that it is time to grow up.

Props to you BudC.

CE750

I must say, that while I agree more with Krispe on the content of the debate, I do think we need to try to keep it more civil, which Bud has done. We need to be able to disagree with out throwing around names and accusations about ones intent.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Here we go again.......

Kev04C320

Give up arguing means lack of maturity!? I don't see the logic here. I don't want to grow up to become a guy that would argue and argue and argue I think BudC handled it like a champ by avoiding the confrontation.

SportyS

Mercedes is far from the best. They have brand recognition that's all. BMW is WAAAYY more technologically advanced and is willing to take more risks than Mercedes (iDrive, radical styling). Not to mention BMWs handle 100,000 times better than a Benz.

Look how MB tries to copy the 7 series in their new S-Class. Point here is, what does MB gain by not making some options standard, such as Xenon lights? The answer to that is very simple, MORE $$$ in their pockets. All of you should see that, financially, it is better NOT to include it and make the customer PAY for it.

I am a Mercedes owner and have been for a long time, but if they don't change their ways, I won't be for any longer. So don't be blinded by brand loyalty, open your eyes.

To those of you that say wait till you get T boned by an expedition? REally? Having a MB didn't save Princess Diana from dying, now did it?

JWS3

had innumerable problems w/ iDrive and other dubious tech features, many (most??) of which persist to this day. As for the new Bangled styling--you can have it. I switched to an MB E500 after 4 BMWs as I just couldn't stomach the goofy designs and beyond plain and stark 5 series interior.
Handling? BMW is certainly tighter, but hardly "100,000 times" better. My most recent BMW was a sport package equipped 2002 5 series. While it was more slot car like, you paid a price in day to day comfort. The MB is close enough and more comfortable for the daily grind.

sacguy

Agreed JWS3, so tired of the "performance/sport handling" only arguments. There is more to a car than just performance/sport handling. We all have a preference, but the "sport" group is much more vocal and often skews the reviews when they test cars to favor "sport" vs. ride/comfort... IMHO. I want both good handling and a very comfortable/quiet ride for extended road trips. When you put that factor as #1, of course the "sport" feel is a little diminished. I think the MB cars do a good job of balancing the two.

SportyS

iDrive didn't come out until the 02 7 series and then the 04 5 series, yet you had numerous problems? Eh?

Any how, this is off topic, the topic is that Benz gets to keep more of (edit) OUR money charging customer what should come standard. Case closed.

BTW, xenons are not standard on the S either, only on the S500.

Also, as for the Bangled styling, get used to it. MB is headed that way. Look at the new S coming out. Compare to the 7, especially the interior.

SportyS

Check out the copy cat S Class:

First pic BMW, 2nd pic S Class. Again get used to Bangle or buy Japanese. LoLz

Barry45RPM

Everyone makes mistakes... Anybody for a can of "New Coke"?

sacguy

Somewhat similar interior layout, but the S class did it better in my eyes.

CE750

First off, the interior of the S class is a shameless lift of the 7 series, and what's worse, it I hated the 7's interior! I agree with much of Sports' comments, but I have to totally disagree that BMW is better.... I love the look of the E-class far more than the old or new 5 series, and I love the balance of great ride and great handling with well designed suspension. Frankly, besides the better handling, and the nicer standard features (a big pet peeve of mine on the MB), the MB is the better car IMHO.