FLSL55

Low xeon's at least? I hope so! Even cars that MSRP at less than 30k come standard with xeon's!

lig

Nope. Gotta pony up another $1200.

Sucks, doesn't it? My Honda came with standard HIDs and leather - unlike my Benz.

DWP

"Even cars that MSRP at less than 30k come standard with [fill in the blank from among the many possibilities]!"

lig

Good Game! These features are standard in some cars that base ~ 30K

I'll start.

1. Leather

2. Metallic Paint

3. HIDs

4. Keyless entry

5. Heated Seats

6. Multi-disc changer

7. Sunroof

8. Folding Rear Seat *

9. Satellite Radio Receiver * (*thanks, DWP)

JWS3

I recently bought an '04 E500 w/ only 5K miles on it precisely due to the severe overpricing. I'll pay a premium for superior engineering, but blanched when I saw how HID lights and even leather seats are options in a 50-65K car.
No wonder MB's sales are so poor. If I look at things in a more impartial light I can't help but feel the Honda Accord V6 is a far, far better deal. 90% of the car for 50% of the price. Just about everything optional in a Benz is std and the performance of the 6 cyl model is fairly close to an E500. Better still is the Acura/Honda RL- Everything and AWD--for under 50K.
MB better wake up lest they lose yet more market share and see their profits slip even more.

yahooe500

I replaced my Halogen lights after the first week. Xenons are the way to go..

CE750

I went thru this rant recently, it's a disgrace how many options MB is hitting us up for now that should be standard on cars in this price range. This is just going to fuel the Japanese copy cats to take away more market share from those of us who are maybe less committed to the MB brand.

CE750

how much did that set you back?
where did you do it?

lig

HIDs = High Intensity Discharge Xenon Lights

DWP

Good list, and to it I would add a folding rear seat. Standard equipment on a $10,000 Hyundai Accent (among many other entry-level cars), a $540 optional hit on our cars. Think about it. M-B's charge for a folding rear seat is over 5% of the cost of an entire new car with a folding rear seat as standard equipment. Hyundai is also starting to make XM satellite radio standard on some models, thanks to a subsidy from XM. When do you think DCX will make Sirius standard equipment on our luxury cars?

BudC

When some jerk T-Bones you in his Exhibition you'll know why you are paying 60K for a Mercedes.

Those who think an Accord is the equal of an E500 are fortunate indeed. They should save themselves a lot of money.

Incidently, anyone who has dealt with high end things should know that there is a law of diminishing returns. Does a Mark Levinson d/a converter give you 10-20 times the the enjoyment of a mass produced Japanese converter? Nope.

You have to pay the price of admission if you want the best.

ima55r2

xenons = HID
HID = sodium, mercury, metal, or xenon

krispykrme

the problem with this argument is that are we getting the best?

Are you so sure that getting t-boned in 30K Acura/Lexus/Infiniti would mean you would die, where you would survive in W211?

Chances are based on crash test, it appears that safey at 30k level should be just as good as 60k car.

Given how tough the compeition is right now, I don't think with all quality issue that DCX has along with continous drive in decontenting, that DCX is the "best".

Barry45RPM

I believe you mean an "Expedition".... An MB is the "Exhibition"

lig

Well done, Barry.



In regard to the HID/Xenon thing - it is true that HIDs utilize gases other than xenon in addition to Xenon but they are generally referred to as either HIDs or Xenons.



<Within this swiveling world are two types of headlights: halogen (with a high-performance variation), and high-intensity discharge headlights that come standard or can be installed by the car owner as after-market accessories.

As explained by Stephanie Anderson, manager of corporate communications for Danvers-based Osram Sylvania, halogen lights use the same filaments as the light bulbs at home; they are what rattles inside a broken bulb. In halogen headlights, however, the "bulb" is filled with inert gases that prolong the life of the filament, making them far more efficient, Anderson explained. Most cars sold today have this type of headlight.

At the top end are high-intensity discharge (HID) lights, which have no filaments and use gas under pressure, ignited in an electrical arc, to produce the "whitest" light currently available for cars. These are also called xenon lights, in reference to their gas content.>

CE750

BudC makes a good point, but I think there is also a certain value that comes with paying a high price. My Audemars Piguet watch made of Stainless Steel costs more than a Gold and Diamond Rolex.. is it really that much better? not as a watch, but it is hand made with a hand decorated movement, vs mass produced like the Rolex, and has a certain rareity.. you are paying for this, just as you would on a Rolls Royce.

An MB used to have more hand assembly and rareity... now-a-days it's as mass produced as any-other car, and with 250,000 units sold in one year, are hardly as rare as they used to be. Prices have gone down, but are still at the top of the price range on this market (cars). The cost of production also has gone down dramatically, so they can pass on the cost savings to us in the form of value added features, and safety.

So what are we paying for then? Quality, name? or both... I think in many areas MB has the best car, and the E class did win as the safest car in America, but a Volvo S80 isn't that much less safe (if at all) and for 15% less price has quite a bit more, never-mind the Acura TL or Infinity 35, Lexus GS etc...

I can see paying extra for air-conditioned seats, or DVD Nav, but some of this stuff like the fold down seats is BS, and who even is in charge of that decision at MB is doing them an injustice in the number of customers they are alienating with this nickel and dime pricing policy.

My next MB will likely be an S class in 3-4 years, and I am going to expect a lot more out of MB the next time - once bitten, twice shy.

Barry45RPM

Its like buying jewelery from Tiffany & Co. or the same quality jewelery at a reputable jeweler. You're gonna pay more for that little blue box with the white ribbon.

BudC

Yup, it's called a typo

BudC

Forget crash tests. U.S. Government crash tests are a joke.

The W210 E-Class had the lowest death rate per million miles per insurance statistics. 10 deaths/million miles. The two door Blazer had over 330 deaths.

But it's not just about getting killed. It's about getting injured and maimed for life.

Almost every safety feature on current cars except the three-point seat belt was implemented first by Daimler-Benz. Since Mercedes doesn't charge patent rights for safety features, everyone is safer (not to mention other companies saving a fortune in R&D).

If Mercedes are overpriced then so are Audi, Lexus and BMW not to mention Cadillac and Lincoln.

You may not always get what you pay for but you never get what you don't pay for.

JWS3

if MB is to be considered "the best" then it needs to 1) clean up its quality problems as of yesterday and 2) realign what is optional and what is standard. Charging more for such things as pano roof, Nav, etc is to be expected. But, in this somewhat rarified price bracket equipment like seat heaters, xenons and leather should be standard- anything less sense a loud message that "we are screwing the customers because we can". Yes, the law of diminishing returns does indeed apply, but given recent poor sales figures it would appear the curve is more than a little too steep. I'll pay a premium for premium engineering, but resent being nickle and dimed for BS reasons.

CE750

I think there is a definite consensus on this board, and other boards that I've been on that MB needs to get the options list shortened a bit. Argue we can till the second coming, the fact is MB IS (like BudC said) the foremost automaker in the world, and needs to act like it. Safety isn't the only thing I am buying when I buy an MB (otherwise I would have gotten a Volvo again). I wanted workmanship and "wow, gee wiz, stuff"

The fact that leather and sunroof are an option of a $50K+ car is simply wrong, especially from MB (or BMW or Audi for that matter).

Sam

BudC

OK, I'm assuming nobody is naive enough to expect MBUSA to add a bunch of options for free so let's assume that SOME people want additional options to be standard equipment with the changes reflected in the price.

I live in Arizona. Why the hell would I want heated seats or steering wheel? In fact, when I lived in Minnesota I preferred MB sheepskins.

I never drive in the rain so why would I want a headlight washer system?

I never drive at night outside of my neighborhood so why would I want Xenon headlights. In fact, I use daytime running lights so I DON'T want Xenons.

I have a CD Disk Changer but if I had a DVD player that would play music, I wouldn't want the changer.

If I had kids or a dog, I wouldn't want leather.

I don't like Sirius radio. I'm too old for it so why would I want it?

So what is the point?

If people feel that they are being ripped off with their Mercedes product, then don't buy another one. Go buy a FWD Japanese car like an Accord that is pre-packaged.

aceman

Bud C,

you wouldn't be a mercedes employee would you
I think when you pay for a car of this prestige, and more importantly cost - you should get AT A MINIMUM that which is standard on most cars 1/2 its price, little yet its competition. Wanting bluetooth, RDS, mem presets, xenon lights, etc. should not be an option or omitted. If we're buying the best, then it should be in it to begin with. Funny, for the most part, i think many of us are annoyed at the things this car does not have when that should not even be a issue w/ regards to ownership experience on a car of this caliber. We should be crowing about having a, in my case, 300hp V8 AWD. Unfortunately, i'm peeved i dont have some standard items but at the end of the day thats the decision i made and am beginning to regret.

aceman

ima55r2

Ace,

I “crow” about having, in my case, a 4-door with a 469 hp V8 and challenge you to find the standard things on my base car for half the price. Everyone does not have to have the options you think are so important. That’s why they are options.

It’s too bad that you didn’t order your standard options and regret your decision. You will be better prepared for your next car.

aceman

if i ordered my options i wanted, the car would of been around 70K So i sacrificed nav, xm, xenon, etc. etc.

Obviously MB is doing something right w/ the fact that we still buy this car even when its NOT comparibly equipped to some of its competion - guess thats what marketing and branding is all about. In the end, maybe they should make the radio optional as i'm sure they could find people who could care less about that as well. Its just ones threshold level when it comes to expectations on features which are optional and those which are standard - obviously my expectations are higher than yours when it comes to standard features for a car of this caliber. Your right - I EXPECT to be pampered with technology when i buy a 65K car but sacrificed it due to the fact that i really liked quality of the ride and did not want to buy a 60K+ car after discounts. To each his/her own!

Aceman