SBC brakes save the day.
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From: South Orange County, CA
4 wheels
Originally Posted by CE750
Yeah, that may be an issue in the gas cars, but in the Diesel we carry an extra 50lbs in sound insulation thru out the car (MB tech's words).. and this could be why I can't hear it while I drive... for that matter, I can hardly hear the engine! 
Off Topic, How do you like the XC90, im thinking of getting the V8 one though since the car really needs it. What do you think?
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
time will tell, I suppose.
Trust me, I have quite a few gripes about this car (members her know well by now my mantra about options and missing features for a car of this price), but this is just not one of them.
Trust me, I have quite a few gripes about this car (members her know well by now my mantra about options and missing features for a car of this price), but this is just not one of them.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by MB Fanatic
I have an 06 E350, and I do not hear it at all. But the CDI I drove while in AZ was very very quiet for a diesel surprisingly. Not to mention torquey as heck. Good choice on the car CE750.
Off Topic, How do you like the XC90, im thinking of getting the V8 one though since the car really needs it. What do you think?
Off Topic, How do you like the XC90, im thinking of getting the V8 one though since the car really needs it. What do you think?
Come to think of it, I don't hear it in the E350 I bought for my mom either, it must have been improved over the later build dates. My E320 was built the same month (oddly) as my mom's '06 E350, so I imagine the same system was installed into both.
The XC90 (for me) is the best SUV on the road, the Boron steel cage, the (brake by wire), the anti-roll system, build quality, standard features, etc.. I honestly have more to gripe about with my MB than with the Volvo. I have mixed feelings about the V8... on one hand, it's got more power, a 5-spd (the 4 spd in the T6 sux).. and a bit more power.. but I have owned three Volvo's with the venerable 2.9 I-6 and I'm a huge fan or the I-6 config (thus my CDI) for smoothness, torque efficiency, etc.. so I would not get a V8. Plus the V8 has Japanese pedigree (not nocking Japanese) which just doesn't fit into a Swedish car for me. But with Ford owning Volvo, it's not likely to remain very Swedish for long.. Over all I'd say go for the V8, certainly better than the I5. But there is also a rumor of a Diesel coming which would rock!
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From: THE NAPA VALLEY, CA
Build date 2-04 E500
I too love the braking system in my car.... I've said it from day 1 and still do. I've had to make a few "sudden" stops since owning the car and the braking system is just awesome. You will truley never appreciate the system untill you need the slam on the brakes.
For the people that don't like the system, own the system and drive with it everyday, then I say.... What ya crying about... We "owners" of it obviously know it more than the one's that don't.
And Sam or CE750.... I traded a 98 V70 GLT wagon for this ride and the braking system in that wagon is what clinched the sale for me. It was by far one of the best braking systems I've ever had in a car, except for the MB.
The down side was the car ate rotors like candy.
For the people that don't like the system, own the system and drive with it everyday, then I say.... What ya crying about... We "owners" of it obviously know it more than the one's that don't.
And Sam or CE750.... I traded a 98 V70 GLT wagon for this ride and the braking system in that wagon is what clinched the sale for me. It was by far one of the best braking systems I've ever had in a car, except for the MB.
The down side was the car ate rotors like candy.
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From: Mansfield, TX
11 ML350W2 / 17 GLC300
One feature I haven't seen mentioned on this thread is the water wiping feature of the brakes when the windshield wipers are on. This feature may be a two edged sword - faster brake action in the wet but with increased pad wear.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Harley: I had a 960, that ate 4 sets of rotors inside of 70K miles... Volvo paid for all of them except the last, as the car was out of warranty.. The admitted to making them a bit thin on that car. But Volvo's traditionally eat rotors at a faster rate.. not sure about the current models however. But it did stop on a dime.. (btw.. the benz stops on 1/2 a dime).
mlesKovar: here is what the brochure says about the SBS features.. let me know if the non SBC car has any of this stuff..
- Brake pressure is transmitted individually to each wheel based on driver input and various vehicle parameters
- SBC more precisely controls brake pressure to each wheel for normal, emergency stop, and ESP
-Soft Stop is a feature of SBC that modulates the brakes for a softer and jerk free stop
-Predictive brake priming "arms" or brings the calipers closer to the rotors if the system detects a sudden removal of accelerator, for faster brake response.
mlesKovar: here is what the brochure says about the SBS features.. let me know if the non SBC car has any of this stuff..
- Brake pressure is transmitted individually to each wheel based on driver input and various vehicle parameters
- SBC more precisely controls brake pressure to each wheel for normal, emergency stop, and ESP
-Soft Stop is a feature of SBC that modulates the brakes for a softer and jerk free stop
-Predictive brake priming "arms" or brings the calipers closer to the rotors if the system detects a sudden removal of accelerator, for faster brake response.
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
>- Brake pressure is transmitted individually to each wheel based on driver input and various vehicle parameters
Nothing new. A fancy way of saying if you push the brake too hard ABS takes over or if you're in a turn too hot ESP cuts in.
>- SBC more precisely controls brake pressure to each wheel for normal, emergency stop, and ESP
"More precisely" may be true but is it necessary? Current systems handle this function with no shortcomings.
>-Soft Stop is a feature of SBC that modulates the brakes for a softer and jerk free stop
Aother solution looking for a problem. My car doesn't have SBC and it doesn't jerk when I stop.
-Predictive brake priming "arms" or brings the calipers closer to the rotors if the system detects a sudden removal of accelerator, for faster brake response.
"Closer"? How "close" do you think pads are with current systems? Any "closer" and they'd be in operation. This "feature" probably accounts for the poor pad wear and undoubtebly increases pad temperature.
Enough said. The purpose of my rants was to point out to klenbore that it wasn't SBC that saved his butt but other 'older' MB systems....most likely Brake Assist. My problem with SBC is it introduces new problems, complexity, weight, and solves nothing worthwhile. Given the choice, would you pay extra for it?......because you did.
Nothing new. A fancy way of saying if you push the brake too hard ABS takes over or if you're in a turn too hot ESP cuts in.
>- SBC more precisely controls brake pressure to each wheel for normal, emergency stop, and ESP
"More precisely" may be true but is it necessary? Current systems handle this function with no shortcomings.
>-Soft Stop is a feature of SBC that modulates the brakes for a softer and jerk free stop
Aother solution looking for a problem. My car doesn't have SBC and it doesn't jerk when I stop.
-Predictive brake priming "arms" or brings the calipers closer to the rotors if the system detects a sudden removal of accelerator, for faster brake response.
"Closer"? How "close" do you think pads are with current systems? Any "closer" and they'd be in operation. This "feature" probably accounts for the poor pad wear and undoubtebly increases pad temperature.
Enough said. The purpose of my rants was to point out to klenbore that it wasn't SBC that saved his butt but other 'older' MB systems....most likely Brake Assist. My problem with SBC is it introduces new problems, complexity, weight, and solves nothing worthwhile. Given the choice, would you pay extra for it?......because you did.
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From: fremont, ca
04 E55
Originally Posted by CE750
That's not the point. The point is that SBC isn't faulty like some are saying.. on the contrary I like the feel of the brakes, very sure feeling. I have a Volvo with Brake by wire and it works well too. I think when fly-by-wire first came out, many complained (some still do), but now the aircraft industry as adopted it fully. It's just a matter of time before brakes and steering are all "by wire"
BTW... I find nothing loud about my SBC.. Maybe I got lucky.
BTW... I find nothing loud about my SBC.. Maybe I got lucky.
Excuse me. People like me who complain about SBC is not it is fauly. It simply none linear with lousy brake feedback. The brake itself is great. But SBC really serves no purpose other than giving driver a total un-linear brake feedback.
I am not sold on all by-wire technology. Cars are too smart for their own good. The drive by wire throttle are often poorly mapped and causing the throttle response to be either delayed or timed badly with transmission.
Any good driver can induce drive by wire throttle confusion. I never understand why anyone would think that a computer interpretation of when I want to brake, accelerate is better than my brain.
I am all for Brake assist. But SBC is totally waste of money and useless.
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
I have to agree w/ krispykreme and mlskovar 100%
Sure - you mash the brake pedal and the car stops. Nobody is saying the car won't stop because of SBC. It is just a case of gilding the lilly.
Brake by wire and throttle by wire still need work.
Sure - you mash the brake pedal and the car stops. Nobody is saying the car won't stop because of SBC. It is just a case of gilding the lilly.
Brake by wire and throttle by wire still need work.
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From: THE NAPA VALLEY, CA
Build date 2-04 E500
Originally Posted by CE750
Harley: I had a 960, that ate 4 sets of rotors inside of 70K miles... Volvo paid for all of them except the last, as the car was out of warranty...
Sounds exactly what happened to our V70.... One time I actually received a set of rotors (free) before the brakes wore out.... Every set we had warped from heat.... We live in the foothills of the Napa Valley and ride the twisties down the hill everyday.... Funny, we never saw more than 10,000 miles from a set of rotors or brakes from the Volvo, but with just over 20,000 miles on the MB, the brakes and rotors are still going strong.... Cry as a few might about the premature brake wear on this car because from the SBC system.... I must say Sorry, I just don't see it. In a matter of fact from tha last three cars we have owned up here in the foothills, none has seen the brake and rotor wear the Mercedes has shown.
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From: fremont, ca
04 E55
Originally Posted by CE750
As for brake-by-wire with SBC, I could be wrong, but an major safety advantage is the way the brakes can read your braking needs using predictive braking algorithms, etc.. that's a step in the right direction, is it not?
There is no need for brake by wire to continous interprete for what I wanted to do.
That's why SBC is going away. It's a dead technology.
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From: fremont, ca
04 E55
Originally Posted by HELL ONA HARLEY
I too love the braking system in my car.... I've said it from day 1 and still do. I've had to make a few "sudden" stops since owning the car and the braking system is just awesome. You will truley never appreciate the system untill you need the slam on the brakes.
For the people that don't like the system, own the system and drive with it everyday, then I say.... What ya crying about... We "owners" of it obviously know it more than the one's that don't.
For the people that don't like the system, own the system and drive with it everyday, then I say.... What ya crying about... We "owners" of it obviously know it more than the one's that don't.
I guess your sole opinion = to all owners.
The brake itself is great. But SBC does not work well. For what you are describing, any ABS with Brake assist would do the same job.
I have done my share of slaming my brakes, conventional brake with brake assist works just as well as SBC while completely deal away with unlinear response from SBC and loud hydraulic noise.
As a owner X2, I will still say this. SBC is a poorly designed product that really serves no purpose.
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From: South Orange County, CA
4 wheels
Originally Posted by krispykrme
I guess your sole opinion = to all owners.
The brake itself is great. But SBC does not work well. For what you are describing, any ABS with Brake assist would do the same job.
I have done my share of slaming my brakes, conventional brake with brake assist works just as well as SBC while completely deal away with unlinear response from SBC and loud hydraulic noise.
As a owner X2, I will still say this. SBC is a poorly designed product that really serves no purpose.
The brake itself is great. But SBC does not work well. For what you are describing, any ABS with Brake assist would do the same job.
I have done my share of slaming my brakes, conventional brake with brake assist works just as well as SBC while completely deal away with unlinear response from SBC and loud hydraulic noise.
As a owner X2, I will still say this. SBC is a poorly designed product that really serves no purpose.
In the new S class Mercedes found a way to get rid of the feel of the ABS pump, while maintaining the features of SBC but in a conventional brake setup. It still has the old SBC Hold feautre and others but its done with a lot more computer input than with SBC.
Im sorry but your opinion doesn't mean much to many of us, since its just that YOUR OPINION. You could say the same about me, but I dont't give a flying **** what you think, or others think of me.
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From: fremont, ca
04 E55
Originally Posted by MB Fanatic
Again, that is just your own opinion. I along with Harley, CE750, and millions of others like the feel, features, and safety that SBC has to offer over say a conventional ABS brake system with BAS, ESP, and TCS.
In the new S class Mercedes found a way to get rid of the feel of the ABS pump, while maintaining the features of SBC but in a conventional brake setup. It still has the old SBC Hold feautre and others but its done with a lot more computer input than with SBC.
Im sorry but your opinion doesn't mean much to many of us, since its just that YOUR OPINION. You could say the same about me, but I dont't give a flying **** what you think, or others think of me.
In the new S class Mercedes found a way to get rid of the feel of the ABS pump, while maintaining the features of SBC but in a conventional brake setup. It still has the old SBC Hold feautre and others but its done with a lot more computer input than with SBC.
Im sorry but your opinion doesn't mean much to many of us, since its just that YOUR OPINION. You could say the same about me, but I dont't give a flying **** what you think, or others think of me.
Millions of other where? Last time I check, i don't think W211 has sold over a million unit already. millions???
The fact of matter is that SBC is a dead technology and has been removed.
Both customers and DCX has spoken. That's why SBC is gone and MB went back to more conventional setup. Truth is the truth.
Opinion based on truth instead of blind faith is much better.
W211 has great brakes. But SBC itself is a poor design. Simple as that. If SBC is so great, DCX would have kept it.
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From: Mansfield, TX
11 ML350W2 / 17 GLC300
The real issue with SBC was the cost. DCX has developed a vacuum assisted system with better stopping ability by developing more advanced software to control it. The new system is cheaper since the vacuum assist is a lot cheaper than the hydraulic pump but still has the brake by wire. The SBC technology isn't dead, it just has a cheaper system to control.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by JimPurdy
The real issue with SBC was the cost. DCX has developed a vacuum assisted system with better stopping ability by developing more advanced software to control it. The new system is cheaper since the vacuum assist is a lot cheaper than the hydraulic pump but still has the brake by wire. The SBC technology isn't dead, it just has a cheaper system to control.
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From: The Earth
Mercedes all the way!
well, all i can say is i know the SBC brakes are really powerful. i've panic stopped both my E and S from around 100mph and the E FELT like it stopped much quicker and surer than the S. of course there's other factors like the S being a larger car, hence more momentum, but the brake pedal is noticeably less "saggy" in the E.
so yes, i'd agree mercedes COULD have gotten another system that stopped cars better than, or as well as SBC, whether they went electronic or not. my guess is they went electronic because it's easier to add features or tweak numbers on a computer than to physically change some physical characteristic. although i must add i've no engineering background to support this view :P
i think the real issue with SBC was the negative stigma attached to an electronic braking system (safety, brake "feel", wear etc). so they've discarded the name, but if jimpurdy is correct, it's still the same thing in principle. it'd be interesting to see what the magazines (many of which have criticized SBC) have to write about the new setup.
so yes, i'd agree mercedes COULD have gotten another system that stopped cars better than, or as well as SBC, whether they went electronic or not. my guess is they went electronic because it's easier to add features or tweak numbers on a computer than to physically change some physical characteristic. although i must add i've no engineering background to support this view :P
i think the real issue with SBC was the negative stigma attached to an electronic braking system (safety, brake "feel", wear etc). so they've discarded the name, but if jimpurdy is correct, it's still the same thing in principle. it'd be interesting to see what the magazines (many of which have criticized SBC) have to write about the new setup.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by krispykrme
that is your opinion.
Millions of other where? Last time I check, i don't think W211 has sold over a million unit already. millions???
Millions of other where? Last time I check, i don't think W211 has sold over a million unit already. millions???
MB's sells some 1 Million or so cars per year, about 1/4-3/8 of them are E class, and the E came out with SBC in 2002... so I would guess we're over a million cars now world wide.
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From: Sydney, Australia
W203 slightly modified
Originally Posted by klenbore
Last night I had a young driver blow through a stop sign in front of me at and intersection. I was traveling about 35 mph, the other driver was going a hell of a lot faster than that. A collision was avoided by inches. There is no doubt in my mind the SBC brake system prevented a serious accident.
I’ve never had a complaint about the “feel” of the SBC brake system. It’s just a matter of getting use to it. After this ordeal, I sold on them. I am still in amazement how fast the system reacted and there wasn’t a collision........Bill
I’ve never had a complaint about the “feel” of the SBC brake system. It’s just a matter of getting use to it. After this ordeal, I sold on them. I am still in amazement how fast the system reacted and there wasn’t a collision........Bill
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by MB Fanatic
Perhaps I should have said thousand. As far as I know the E, SL, and CLS are the only ones that come with SBC brakes. I apologize for saying millions.
Last edited by CE750; Jul 17, 2005 at 10:27 PM.
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
Originally Posted by benzmodz
I dont know if you are aware of this but suddenly releasing the gas pedal brings the braking pads a lot closer to the rotors so that the distance they need to travel for braking is greatly reduced.
