bADNEWZ

What else would you expect from Mercedes Benz E 320 's. All these scumbags care about are their Profits. If you think they care about your SAFETY.. Guess again.
Hit them where it hurts on Social Media
Here is a link to their Youtube Account Tell them how you feel in the comments section or the dealers FAcebook/yelp accounts.

JBruceBryant

I experienced a complete brake failure on my 2003 E320 while driving with my 11 year old son during peak drive time. The failure occurred without warning. Research evidences an extended history of complaints about complete brake system failures on the 2003 E320 model. This type of malfunction is inherently dangerous and presents a heightened probability of severe injury occurring to the driver, occupants, pedestrians and other motor vehicle operators. I cannot find where this issue has been addressed by MB.

vettdvr

Your only option is to do what I did. File a complaint on NTSB highway for the car, sell it buy something else. This braking system and airmatic failures are what brought me to the decision of poor quality/safety and not to buy another. Commercials are to sell cars. Customers make the final determination on do they meet the requirements.

GM is also finding out the cost to do right is much less than having 67 family members die in a crash from an ignition switch fail they knew about for 13 yrs.

bADNEWZ

You are correct these scumbags"Mercedes" will hide the truth for as long as they can.. They hate the fact that their customers have the INTERNET to post and advise other customers with Issues.
Hit them were it hurts them .. posts and complaints on social media and the INTERNET...
In the end all they care about are their Profits.. they have turned into a bunch of BEAN Counters

JBruceBryant

I have not heard anything further from Mercedes in regard to the brake failure issue. Initially, MB told me that they would get back with me in a couple weeks. To date, I have not received any further correspondence from them. I guess they are waiting for a class action suit to a defective brake system. If anyone has experienced this specific, please post so we can get this ball rolling. TNX

hangit06

Please see my sticky "SBC and NHTSA". It is the first listed in the E class forum. This is going to become a very common problem as these cars reach the SBC activation threshold.

I have scheduled the 2yr recommended brake flush next week and have asked for an "activation count" so I know how close to the threshold I am. It's a great car so I plan on replacing the pump when it's close to the limit.

John

willykevj

I experienced the brake failure coincidentally right at the 10 year , 100k mark (10years, 1 month 98k to be exact)

SBC system completely failed on me as I was exiting the highway, but luckily I was able to downshift and e-brake my way to a stop. Pedal went all the way to the floor with zero braking at 65 MPH... Mercedes claims you just need "additional pressure." I'm sorry, but when your brake pedal goes to the floor, it is time to immediately think of alternative ways to stop the car rather than standing on the brake pedal and pray.

I contacted Mercedes USA to let them know about my experience after the dealer told me that I was just over 1 month of it being covered and would cost over $2k for replacement. The case manager was not helpful. Since my car has not had dealer only service they won't do anything for me. My father owns his own shop, has all the specialty tools, and 40 years experience. Why would I pay a dealer to service my car that we can do better ourselves? His only response was sorry, you can't expect parts to last forever. He said all are likely to fail at some point, as that is just the nature of cars... That is unacceptable for a vehicle of this caliber (and expense) when my previous cheaper cars that were 15-20 years old still has original brake boosters/ABS Pumps/etc... This isn't just something that they should be sweeping under the rug as generic part failure. This will very likely take lives (or already has).

My family has owned multiple Mercedes through the years but I can safely say after their poor customer service, my family, friends, and myself will no longer be supporting them.

That is my story...sorry for being so wordy it has just been an extremely frustrating process. MB USA said they were going to talk to the dealer about a discount, but it's been 3 days and haven't heard back. They have had my car 8 days now at this point and say it will be a minimum of 7-10 days just to get the part (from Germany) once repair is approved. No offer of a loaner vehicle or anything.

I will be filing a complaint with the NHTSA, thanks for starting that thread.

VMAX7

I was an inch away from picking up a 211 E500...thank God I didn't.

This is definitely a dealbreaker.

cetialpha5

It's why I went with the 2008. Get a 2007 E550, 2006 was the last year for SBC. It still has airmatic though, you'd have to go with an E350 sedan to avoid the airmatic.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to Mercedes here, just because it's expensive doesn't mean that it's going to last forever. Mercedes does have the reputation that they're expensive to maintain. Once a car hits the 10 year mark, it's not unusual to spend 1-2k a year to maintain it, and not too surprising that Mercedes is a bit more than that, I've noticed their parts are 2-3x more expensive that other cars. Labor rate is about the same though although if they take longer than other cars, that also pushes the price up. An indy is the way to go if you're going to complain about repair prices.

JBruceBryant

I believe all would agree that mechanical parts require routine maintenance and have to be replaced. This is not the issue of this Forum. The complete failure of a properly maintained brake system without any prior notice or indication is the topic. I routinely take my E320 for scheduled maintenance by a licensed MB shop. At no time was I ever told by the MB dealer, the MB shop or MB handbook that the brakes "may" completely fail even with regularly scheduled maintenance. When the possibility of a complete system failure, critical to the safe operation of vehicle, is known or becomes known to the manufacturer, the manufacturer owes a duty to the consumer and the public to correct the defect and make the problem known. MB has neglected this duty. At the very least, MB should issue a written warning, "Constant vigilance is necessary as driver may without warning, experience complete failure of braking system even with regularly scheduled maintenance."

willykevj

Well put JBruceBryant. Did you already file your complaint with the NHTSA? (Sticky: SBC and NHTSA)

cetialpha5

I think there are some unrealistic expectations out there. The master cylinder on my Ford failed after about 180-190k. Symptoms were that one day the pedal went all the way to the floor not unlike SBC failure, car still stopped, just had to put my foot all the way down to get it to slow down. It was alarming to say the least at the time, but no accident. It was a relatively cheap repair though, for Ford it was about a $50 part and an hour of labor. Are people upset due to the high cost of parts and labor with Mercedes or is it really a safety item? Also now that you know the pump may fail, are you going to get it replaced or just wait til it fails?

willykevj

The issue isn't about parts, labor, or cost. The issue is that Mercedes has designed a brake-by-wire electrical system and knows that the electric pump can fail at any time without warning, OR after it has applied the brakes 300,000 times. They designed this system without putting any mechanical backup in place that would actually stop the car in an emergency. Any time you are talking about the main component for safety being 100% electrical and not having a sufficient backup plan, that raises a concern.

Also in your case with a failed master cylinder or brake booster, there are usually fair warning signs if you routinely check fluid levels, etc. With a totally random electrical failure, everyone is at risk.

I believe Mercedes should be checking SBC on every w211 yearly and replaced if found to be faulty, or near the 300k actuations. Especially now that all these cars are 10 years old and more and more failures are bound to occur. It is only a matter of time before a class action law suit.

cetialpha5

Actually with my master cylinder, there's no way to tell it's about to fail, the seals inside the master cylinder fails so fluid goes around it. There were no fluid leaks which is why I knew it was the master cylinder and not something else. Found out about it on the Ford forums, seemed like it was a common thing to go and people there weren't up in arms about having a recall done.

As for your claims about Mercedes, because it's electric, that's why there's a backup battery in case the main battery fails. The notice that it's going to fail is the red warning lights on the dash although to be fair, I think people that it comes on when it fails so it's not really an advance warning, but then again, I had no advance warning when my master cylinder failed, indeed there was no light at all, just the pedal going down to the floor. Also I believe the same thing happens, you have reduced braking power, some say it's about 10% of the regular brakes so I suppose that might be claim for insufficient backup.

mersum1es

Actually there is a direct mechanical (via fluid) connection in emergency mode, like in old school stuff:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14094997/M...ke-Control-SBC

Perhaps piston areas are so small that braking force is much less than conventional system without boosting. Another thing is, that if system is bled without SDS, emergency circuit is the one which is not bleed or flushed properly, and this may cause problems with without electric boosting. In addition emergency valves may not work properly if brake fluid has been contaminated with water and not been changed properly in this circuit too.

Overall I totally agree that this emergency mode even working is definitely not enough, especially when it can come out of blue and driver looses vital seconds before realizing what is happening. Hope ypu US customers can make some difference in reaction of MB, and it will also help us European drivers too (many things are not applied overseas...)

hangit06

Just returned from MB dealer after SBC brake flush, $179 including fluids. They told me that there is absolutely no way to know how many
SBC activations have occurred or how many the unit has left before the service threshold is reached.

It seems a few lines of new computer code could provide a warning at a predetermined limit.

I plan on contacting MB customer service again with this suggestion. Most likely it is going to take a fatality related to system failure and a lawsuit before anything changes.

John

mersum1es

THEY might no have tools to read pump events (it needs developer mode of SDS to read event counter), but they are right that there is no way of knowing which actual fault trigger value is. It depends many other parameters, for example one case reported where new unit was replaced (under warranty). Then less that 6 months brake pipe broken and this new system triggered a service limit fault which was not possible to reset in any way, customer needed to change second unit at his own costs...

irishhitman

Like everyone from what I have read here has had a complete failure of the braking system. We bought the car last November 2003 E320 with on 65,000 miles. Very nice car.... till this morning. My wife called and said she had a failure going to work. She went through a busy intersection no brakes. Thank God she is a terrific driver and has been a professional driver a few years back.

We had the car serviced a month ago and the dealer stated that the system can have issues and if the brakes act up, it might fail. Driving over 30years... I have never heard of a car with a brake failure that does not provide the driver even a hard pump manual brake. Guess I have a decision of having them replaced to the tune of $3000 or dump this car..

hangit06

Please file the incident here. www.safercar.gov

John

irishhitman

hangit06.... Just completed

I have an '03 C230 I use for work. Nearly 200000 miles on it. Love the little thing. I am 6'2 250lbs... so I look like a circus bear getting out of a clown car, but once inside... it is a great car for someone who travels A LOT!
Not happy with this car now. We were really liking the MB line up, but if this is the way it goes, I might as well stick to domestics... at least when they **** the bed, it does not cost more than what they are worth to repair.

cetialpha5

They got rid of SBC in the 2007 model year so 2007-2009 W211's don't have SBC. Even the newer 2010-present don't have SBC. In theory you're supposed to have about 10% braking power left, but everyone seems to say that it feels like nothing.

If you search the threads, there are people who have gotten it fixed in the $1200-$1500 range, hard to get it done for much less as the cheapest the part goes for is around $800. Typically the dealers charge $2k+ so your 3k is a little on the high side.

irishhitman

Just found a local shop... in the town where the (SBC crapped the bed) He got the part from Pelican Exchange made by Bosch for $675.00 will install after bleeding the system and have on the road for $985.00

Guess that beats my MB dealers $3000.00

hangit06

Great price on the SBC unit. Warranty on the part? Was is it from Pelican Parts?

John

kajtek1

Double on posting the pump supplier.
Now I understand that wife was able to stop the car without accident.
Did she had the backup system clicking in, what gives braking with much harder push, or was it no brakes at all?

The Thomas J

I have had brake failure twice in my life.B oth times the brake lines failed Once was a Subaru gl wagon. I wasn't going very fast but because the little 4cyl engine didn't produce a lot of vacuum there was no way to stop it with the pedal, in addition the master cylinder wasn't chambered for front and back brakes I lost all the fluid. I had to use the e brake.

On my 97' Cadillac DeVille with a Northstar motor I was able to stop with the pedal and because the master cylinder was chambered I could wasn't losing all the fluid and use the engine vacuum to assist me as well.

My Corvette needs a brake booster. It's like driving without power brakes and reminds me of my UPS days driving a package car but, it stops fine.

The SBC issue reminds me of the Subaru. Only way to stop it is to use the e-brake. You would be surprised how many people don't know that, panic and crash.