Another brake failure
10-15-2005, 09:59 AM
#26
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by Spartan
This is all bad news and the cars are going to get a reputation as deadly lemons. In fact, I think that US posters should launch a class action law suit to claim undue loses in value due to a design defect.
.
.
10-15-2005, 10:10 AM
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Interesting Article on SBC Brake Failure
Hello,
I am just
a lurker and previous E300 owner. Currently plan to get E500 or CLS 500 next year. Hope this article has not been posted before. The info is a little worrisome. I hope MB will discontinue this in the CLS also.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“We realize now that many of the ideas we adopted came from consumer electronics,” he says. “That was a mistake. We now know they were not all suitable for cars.”
Mercedes did test the components, he says, although suppliers conducted some of the testing. But the auto maker now realizes components cannot be tested themselves.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mercedes once was famous for its over-engineered vehicles. But a new, “leaner” engineering philosophy was introduced by then Mercedes chief Juergen Hubbert and DaimlerChrysler Corp. CEO Dieter Zetsche, who at the time was head of Mercedes research and development.
Their goal was to help Mercedes cut cost while meeting the challenge of competition — particularly from the supremely efficient Japanese.
The new system cut as much as two years from the previously unhurried 7-year development process for any all-new Mercedes model. At the same time, the auto maker added a raft of niche models and greatly expanded the range at both ends.
What followed was a shift from an engineering-dominated product-development process and culture to a marketing-driven environment that resulted in the disappointing W210 E-Class, controversial A-Class and the quality-challenged, U.S.-built, M-Class SUV.
The decision to adopt innovative electronic features for the new SL and E-Class now is viewed as overkill.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_mer...rking_brake_2/
Marina Naumann is driving her Mercedes-Benz E-Class down steeply twisting Camps Bay Drive, just south of Cape Town, South Africa.
Suddenly an alarm sounds and the instrument panel flashes: “Long Stop Brake Failure-Stop Car.” Naumann would do that — if she could. The brake pedal has gone soft as if there is no connection to anything.
The E-Class's high-tech electro-hydraulic Sensotronic Brake Control (SBC) braking system switches to backup mode, but braking power is minimal. Shaken, Naumann steers the Mercedes to a stop on the only slice of near-flat gradient in sight.
Naumann is not alone in having electrical problems with her E-Class. In late March, Mercedes issued a global recall of all 1.3 million cars equipped with the Robert Bosch GmbH-built SBC system.
The system, an early attempt at “by wire” control of brakes that eliminates the physical connection between the brake pedal and the brakes themselves, first was introduced on the current-generation 320 SL and later fitted to the E-Class (W210 series) and CLS.
Mercedes says in its recall that SBC may shift prematurely to the hydraulic backup function due to deterioration of the wiring harness or premature failure of the hydraulic pump.
As a consequence, the driver has braking power sufficient to stop the vehicle, although greater brake pedal pressure is required, and the brake pedal travel will be longer.
Although the SBC brakes can be fixed, the sting of worldwide publicity surrounding the recall has given Mercedes' once-impregnable quality reputation another beating.
The fall from grace can be traced back to the early 1990s decision to retreat from the reality of its slogan, “Engineered like no other car,” combined with more recent moves to incorporate innovative electronic features.
The result is a quality nightmare that has deeply tarnished the Mercedes brand and sent the marque plunging in customer-satisfaction ratings.
Mercedes once was famous for its over-engineered vehicles. But a new, “leaner” engineering philosophy was introduced by then Mercedes chief Juergen Hubbert and DaimlerChrysler Corp. CEO Dieter Zetsche, who at the time was head of Mercedes research and development.
Their goal was to help Mercedes cut cost while meeting the challenge of competition — particularly from the supremely efficient Japanese.
The new system cut as much as two years from the previously unhurried 7-year development process for any all-new Mercedes model. At the same time, the auto maker added a raft of niche models and greatly expanded the range at both ends.
What followed was a shift from an engineering-dominated product-development process and culture to a marketing-driven environment that resulted in the disappointing W210 E-Class, controversial A-Class and the quality-challenged, U.S.-built, M-Class SUV.
The decision to adopt innovative electronic features for the new SL and E-Class now is viewed as overkill. Coming so soon after the auto maker's seminal mid-1990s engineering shift to develop new models according to a pre-determined budget, the mandate only amplified Mercedes' increasingly stretched engineering resources.
For decades, the E-Class has been the nucleus from which Mercedes' entire model range radiates and, because of the numbers — about 300,000 sold annually — the model has been the company's greatest profit generator.
But hurt by the critical quality-degradation publicity, especially in Europe, sales of the E-Class have plunged this year, taking Mercedes into the red. Production for the first three months was down 32% to 56,615 units.
Mercedes' 100,000-mile (161,000-km) diesel-power world record attempt earlier this year wasn't just about confirming the ability of its new V-6 turbodiesel, or selling diesel technology to the U.S.
On a far wider front, the record-setting run, involving three E320 CDIs selected at random off the assembly line, was intended to reinforce to the world the E-Class' superior overall quality and reliability.
The idea of using a record run to shore up a car's or brand's reputation isn't new. Ford Motor Co. Australia Ltd. went the same route for its XP Falcon in 1965.
Michael Kramer, head of development for the C/E-Class, tired of hearing his cars disparaged, devised the plan last September. Mercedes now believes the record run was a success on all three levels.
“We want to prove the electronics of our cars are of the same quality as the mechanical parts,” says Thomas Weber, Mercedes board member responsible for Research & Technology and Development, on hand to witness the run at the DC test track in Texas.
“The (SBC) recall sent a message to the customers that they can trust us. If we have a problem, they know we will fix it.”
Weber admits Mercedes' desire to be first meant implementing an excess of electronic features without fully understanding the potential problems.
“We realize now that many of the ideas we adopted came from consumer electronics,” he says. “That was a mistake. We now know they were not all suitable for cars.”
Mercedes did test the components, he says, although suppliers conducted some of the testing. But the auto maker now realizes components cannot be tested themselves.
“You need to test the whole car to see how they are integrated together in one environment,” Weber says. “That was our biggest lesson.
He also says Mercedes needs to rethink its timeline in order to determine which electronic innovations are important to customers and decide how fast the systems can be adopted.
“We don't need to be as fast as possible; that's not our idea,” he says.
As for the brake problem that afflicted Naumann's E270, Weber says it was caused by vibration that allowed the wiring harness to work loose, triggering a shutdown reaction from the engine's electronic control unit.
The ECU then slipped into a special failure mode that deactivated the SBC system. The recall fixes the harness more securely, and the modification now is being applied to production cars, he says.
Tellingly, however, this year's upcoming all-new S-Class, originally engineered with the SBC system, will use conventional hydraulic actuation instead.
How many flawed cars has Mercedes replaced? Weber is not specific. “Only a few,” he says.
Even so, Mercedes customers demand nothing less than the luxury maker's historic reputation for perfection — the company's bottom line depends on it.
I am just
a lurker and previous E300 owner. Currently plan to get E500 or CLS 500 next year. Hope this article has not been posted before. The info is a little worrisome. I hope MB will discontinue this in the CLS also.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“We realize now that many of the ideas we adopted came from consumer electronics,” he says. “That was a mistake. We now know they were not all suitable for cars.”
Mercedes did test the components, he says, although suppliers conducted some of the testing. But the auto maker now realizes components cannot be tested themselves.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mercedes once was famous for its over-engineered vehicles. But a new, “leaner” engineering philosophy was introduced by then Mercedes chief Juergen Hubbert and DaimlerChrysler Corp. CEO Dieter Zetsche, who at the time was head of Mercedes research and development.
Their goal was to help Mercedes cut cost while meeting the challenge of competition — particularly from the supremely efficient Japanese.
The new system cut as much as two years from the previously unhurried 7-year development process for any all-new Mercedes model. At the same time, the auto maker added a raft of niche models and greatly expanded the range at both ends.
What followed was a shift from an engineering-dominated product-development process and culture to a marketing-driven environment that resulted in the disappointing W210 E-Class, controversial A-Class and the quality-challenged, U.S.-built, M-Class SUV.
The decision to adopt innovative electronic features for the new SL and E-Class now is viewed as overkill.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_mer...rking_brake_2/
Marina Naumann is driving her Mercedes-Benz E-Class down steeply twisting Camps Bay Drive, just south of Cape Town, South Africa.
Suddenly an alarm sounds and the instrument panel flashes: “Long Stop Brake Failure-Stop Car.” Naumann would do that — if she could. The brake pedal has gone soft as if there is no connection to anything.
The E-Class's high-tech electro-hydraulic Sensotronic Brake Control (SBC) braking system switches to backup mode, but braking power is minimal. Shaken, Naumann steers the Mercedes to a stop on the only slice of near-flat gradient in sight.
Naumann is not alone in having electrical problems with her E-Class. In late March, Mercedes issued a global recall of all 1.3 million cars equipped with the Robert Bosch GmbH-built SBC system.
The system, an early attempt at “by wire” control of brakes that eliminates the physical connection between the brake pedal and the brakes themselves, first was introduced on the current-generation 320 SL and later fitted to the E-Class (W210 series) and CLS.
Mercedes says in its recall that SBC may shift prematurely to the hydraulic backup function due to deterioration of the wiring harness or premature failure of the hydraulic pump.
As a consequence, the driver has braking power sufficient to stop the vehicle, although greater brake pedal pressure is required, and the brake pedal travel will be longer.
Although the SBC brakes can be fixed, the sting of worldwide publicity surrounding the recall has given Mercedes' once-impregnable quality reputation another beating.
The fall from grace can be traced back to the early 1990s decision to retreat from the reality of its slogan, “Engineered like no other car,” combined with more recent moves to incorporate innovative electronic features.
The result is a quality nightmare that has deeply tarnished the Mercedes brand and sent the marque plunging in customer-satisfaction ratings.
Mercedes once was famous for its over-engineered vehicles. But a new, “leaner” engineering philosophy was introduced by then Mercedes chief Juergen Hubbert and DaimlerChrysler Corp. CEO Dieter Zetsche, who at the time was head of Mercedes research and development.
Their goal was to help Mercedes cut cost while meeting the challenge of competition — particularly from the supremely efficient Japanese.
The new system cut as much as two years from the previously unhurried 7-year development process for any all-new Mercedes model. At the same time, the auto maker added a raft of niche models and greatly expanded the range at both ends.
What followed was a shift from an engineering-dominated product-development process and culture to a marketing-driven environment that resulted in the disappointing W210 E-Class, controversial A-Class and the quality-challenged, U.S.-built, M-Class SUV.
The decision to adopt innovative electronic features for the new SL and E-Class now is viewed as overkill. Coming so soon after the auto maker's seminal mid-1990s engineering shift to develop new models according to a pre-determined budget, the mandate only amplified Mercedes' increasingly stretched engineering resources.
For decades, the E-Class has been the nucleus from which Mercedes' entire model range radiates and, because of the numbers — about 300,000 sold annually — the model has been the company's greatest profit generator.
But hurt by the critical quality-degradation publicity, especially in Europe, sales of the E-Class have plunged this year, taking Mercedes into the red. Production for the first three months was down 32% to 56,615 units.
Mercedes' 100,000-mile (161,000-km) diesel-power world record attempt earlier this year wasn't just about confirming the ability of its new V-6 turbodiesel, or selling diesel technology to the U.S.
On a far wider front, the record-setting run, involving three E320 CDIs selected at random off the assembly line, was intended to reinforce to the world the E-Class' superior overall quality and reliability.
The idea of using a record run to shore up a car's or brand's reputation isn't new. Ford Motor Co. Australia Ltd. went the same route for its XP Falcon in 1965.
Michael Kramer, head of development for the C/E-Class, tired of hearing his cars disparaged, devised the plan last September. Mercedes now believes the record run was a success on all three levels.
“We want to prove the electronics of our cars are of the same quality as the mechanical parts,” says Thomas Weber, Mercedes board member responsible for Research & Technology and Development, on hand to witness the run at the DC test track in Texas.
“The (SBC) recall sent a message to the customers that they can trust us. If we have a problem, they know we will fix it.”
Weber admits Mercedes' desire to be first meant implementing an excess of electronic features without fully understanding the potential problems.
“We realize now that many of the ideas we adopted came from consumer electronics,” he says. “That was a mistake. We now know they were not all suitable for cars.”
Mercedes did test the components, he says, although suppliers conducted some of the testing. But the auto maker now realizes components cannot be tested themselves.
“You need to test the whole car to see how they are integrated together in one environment,” Weber says. “That was our biggest lesson.
He also says Mercedes needs to rethink its timeline in order to determine which electronic innovations are important to customers and decide how fast the systems can be adopted.
“We don't need to be as fast as possible; that's not our idea,” he says.
As for the brake problem that afflicted Naumann's E270, Weber says it was caused by vibration that allowed the wiring harness to work loose, triggering a shutdown reaction from the engine's electronic control unit.
The ECU then slipped into a special failure mode that deactivated the SBC system. The recall fixes the harness more securely, and the modification now is being applied to production cars, he says.
Tellingly, however, this year's upcoming all-new S-Class, originally engineered with the SBC system, will use conventional hydraulic actuation instead.
How many flawed cars has Mercedes replaced? Weber is not specific. “Only a few,” he says.
Even so, Mercedes customers demand nothing less than the luxury maker's historic reputation for perfection — the company's bottom line depends on it.
Last edited by cannga; 10-15-2005 at 10:40 AM.
10-15-2005, 10:28 AM
#28
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by cannga
Hello,
I am just a lurker and previous E300 owner. Currently plan to get E500 or CLS 500 next year. Hope this article not been posted before. The info is a little worrisome. I hope MB will discontinue this in the CLS also.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“We realize now that many of the ideas we adopted came from consumer electronics,” he says. “That was a mistake. We now know they were not all suitable for cars.” ...........
I am just
a lurker and previous E300 owner. Currently plan to get E500 or CLS 500 next year. Hope this article not been posted before. The info is a little worrisome. I hope MB will discontinue this in the CLS also.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“We realize now that many of the ideas we adopted came from consumer electronics,” he says. “That was a mistake. We now know they were not all suitable for cars.” ...........
It is sad that this brand known for over engineering and superb quality is was sinking so badly... thank God they began to reverse this late last year, and thank God, my car and my mothers car both built in April of this year seem to be rock solid so far.
I hope these idiot bean counters at MB don't ruin that company and the legacy their forefathers built over 120 years!
10-15-2005, 10:31 AM
#29
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by tpliquid
happened to my moms E500 yesterday, brakes just died she couldnt stop and hit 3? cars.. pretty bad.. we have a 2005 E500. i looked aorund and i cant find any SBC recalls for the 05 E500. maybe im nto looking hard enough
PLEASE look in the door sill area on the driver side, and get the build date of the car.. thanks
10-15-2005, 10:54 AM
#30
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2011 E550, 2013 GLK
I'm beginning to think that unexplained SBC failures (reverting to backup mode) is caused by the problem this recall fixes:
Recall Number: 05V133000
Dates Manufactured: AUG 2001 to MAR 2005
This is a problem with the wiring harness connection to the SBC Controller. The fix is to add some small parts to make sure the connection does not come loose.
The connector plugs into the back of the Controller so (for example) if the car is bumped from the rear, it could cause the cable to come loose. If could also just work itself loose over time.
If you haven't had this recall performed, then I recommend that you do so. Dealers are supposed to have the parts in stock but it seems that many do not. You might want to call up ahead of time and have them check to see if they have the parts. Otherwise, they'll keep your car overnight while they wait for the parts.
If you haven't had this recall performed, I'd also check the cable going into the back side of the SBC Controller to make sure it's properly seated.
Nature of Defect:
2. SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
Recall Number: 05V133000
Dates Manufactured: AUG 2001 to MAR 2005
Number of Vehicles Affected: 204000
Date Owners Notified On: N/A
Vehicle: 2005 Mercedes-Benz E-Class
Defect Description:
ON CERTAIN VEHICLES, THE SENSOTRONIC BRAKE CONTROL (SBC) SYSTEM MAY PREMATURELY SHIFT TO THE HYDRAULIC BACK-UP FUNCTION MODE, DUE TO DETERIORATION OF THE WIRING HARNESS CONNECTION, OR DUE TO PREMATURE FAILURE OF THE HYDRAULIC PUMP.
Consequence of Defect:
IN THE HYDRAULIC BACK-UP MODE, THE DRIVER HAS BRAKING POWER SUFFICIENT TO STOP THE VEHICLE, ALTHOUGH GREATER BRAKE PEDAL PRESSURE IS REQUIRED AND THE BRAKE PEDAL TRAVEL WILL BE NOTICEABLY LONGER.
Corrective Action:
DEALERS WILL INSPECT, MODIFY AND REPLACE THE SBC AFFECTED COMPONENTS. THE SBC PUMP UNIT . THE MANUFACTURER HAS NOT YET PROVIDED AN OWNER NOTIFICATION SCHEDULE. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT MERCEDES-BENZ AT 1-800-367-6372.
Recall Number: 05V133000
Dates Manufactured: AUG 2001 to MAR 2005
This is a problem with the wiring harness connection to the SBC Controller. The fix is to add some small parts to make sure the connection does not come loose.
The connector plugs into the back of the Controller so (for example) if the car is bumped from the rear, it could cause the cable to come loose. If could also just work itself loose over time.
If you haven't had this recall performed, then I recommend that you do so. Dealers are supposed to have the parts in stock but it seems that many do not. You might want to call up ahead of time and have them check to see if they have the parts. Otherwise, they'll keep your car overnight while they wait for the parts.
If you haven't had this recall performed, I'd also check the cable going into the back side of the SBC Controller to make sure it's properly seated.
Nature of Defect:
2. SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
Recall Number: 05V133000
Dates Manufactured: AUG 2001 to MAR 2005
Number of Vehicles Affected: 204000
Date Owners Notified On: N/A
Vehicle: 2005 Mercedes-Benz E-Class
Defect Description:
ON CERTAIN VEHICLES, THE SENSOTRONIC BRAKE CONTROL (SBC) SYSTEM MAY PREMATURELY SHIFT TO THE HYDRAULIC BACK-UP FUNCTION MODE, DUE TO DETERIORATION OF THE WIRING HARNESS CONNECTION, OR DUE TO PREMATURE FAILURE OF THE HYDRAULIC PUMP.
Consequence of Defect:
IN THE HYDRAULIC BACK-UP MODE, THE DRIVER HAS BRAKING POWER SUFFICIENT TO STOP THE VEHICLE, ALTHOUGH GREATER BRAKE PEDAL PRESSURE IS REQUIRED AND THE BRAKE PEDAL TRAVEL WILL BE NOTICEABLY LONGER.
Corrective Action:
DEALERS WILL INSPECT, MODIFY AND REPLACE THE SBC AFFECTED COMPONENTS. THE SBC PUMP UNIT . THE MANUFACTURER HAS NOT YET PROVIDED AN OWNER NOTIFICATION SCHEDULE. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT MERCEDES-BENZ AT 1-800-367-6372.
Last edited by BudC; 10-15-2005 at 10:57 AM.
10-15-2005, 11:02 AM
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Hello BudC,
Does the fact that they are not using this system (correct me if I am wrong please) in the new S and next year's E implies that it's more than just a wiring harness working loose? That for some reason, they are not sure they have completely identified ALL the possible causes?
That is, we still don't know yet, unfortunately not until further "users' testing",
that replacing the wiring harness completely cures the failure problem?
Does the fact that they are not using this system (correct me if I am wrong please) in the new S and next year's E implies that it's more than just a wiring harness working loose? That for some reason, they are not sure they have completely identified ALL the possible causes?
That is, we still don't know yet, unfortunately not until further "users' testing",
that replacing the wiring harness completely cures the failure problem?
Originally Posted by BudC
I'm beginning to think that unexplained SBC failures (reverting to backup mode) is caused by the problem this recall fixes:
Recall Number: 05V133000
Dates Manufactured: AUG 2001 to MAR 2005
.
Recall Number: 05V133000
Dates Manufactured: AUG 2001 to MAR 2005
.
Last edited by cannga; 10-15-2005 at 11:06 AM.
10-15-2005, 11:19 AM
#32
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2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Originally Posted by cannga
Hello BudC,
Does the fact that they are not using this system (correct me if I am wrong please) in the new S and next year's E implies that it's more than just a wiring harness working loose? That for some reason, they are not sure they have completely identified ALL the possible causes?
That is, we still don't know yet, unfortunately not until further "users' testing", that replacing the wiring harness completely cures the failure problem?
Does the fact that they are not using this system (correct me if I am wrong please) in the new S and next year's E implies that it's more than just a wiring harness working loose? That for some reason, they are not sure they have completely identified ALL the possible causes?
That is, we still don't know yet, unfortunately not until further "users' testing",
that replacing the wiring harness completely cures the failure problem?Mercedes made a mistake putting SBC into their cars. It was done during a time when the Germans were in a technology race trying to offer something extra that you didn't get from Japanese competitors. They went too far, not just with SBC but with all kinds of electronic widgets. Now they are backing off that approach and eliminating a lot of electronic features.
As for *user testing*, Microsoft seems to have used it to the hilt in thier products. This isn't Mercedes approach. They just had a run of bad management and are now trying to go back to a company run by engineers.
10-15-2005, 07:32 PM
#33
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Mercedes all the way!
i HOPE the company won't go back to being run by engineers, but i hope it won't go to the bean counters or marketers either. the fact is, the whole reason for the shift of emphasis in the 90s was because people didn't WANT to buy mercedes despite knowing its engineering superiority. remember the W140? the best engineered and best built car in the world ever - i dare to say. but it was poorly received in many countries. then enter the W220 - beautiful car, lousy quality at first. yet everyone loves it.
mercedes then oscillated too far toward market-driven cars. i hope management finds a good compromise between the two. so far as i can see, i'm still quite worried about the prevailing trend especially at the cheaper and so more price-conscious end of the market - cars which are very solid (B-class, C-class) but which are now newly priced well above the competition. fact is, unless people are given a reason why these cars are so much better than others, they won't pay the extra.
well, my E-class has been around for 2 years now (celebrated "her" birthday a few days ago) and never had a single problem. one oil change and that's it. none of my friends with E have ever had a problem either - the only complaint i have is that the keyless-go batteries drain quickly.
well, that's my 2cents anyway
mercedes then oscillated too far toward market-driven cars. i hope management finds a good compromise between the two. so far as i can see, i'm still quite worried about the prevailing trend especially at the cheaper and so more price-conscious end of the market - cars which are very solid (B-class, C-class) but which are now newly priced well above the competition. fact is, unless people are given a reason why these cars are so much better than others, they won't pay the extra.
well, my E-class has been around for 2 years now (celebrated "her" birthday a few days ago) and never had a single problem. one oil change and that's it. none of my friends with E have ever had a problem either - the only complaint i have is that the keyless-go batteries drain quickly.
well, that's my 2cents anyway
10-25-2005, 07:36 PM
#34
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My mom just updated me on the situation.
The engineer told my dad that there was no problems in the brake system at all.
so now im wondering can the SBC fault errors that show up be reseted?
The engineer told my dad that there was no problems in the brake system at all.
so now im wondering can the SBC fault errors that show up be reseted?
10-25-2005, 07:39 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by tpliquid
My mom just updated me on the situation.
The engineer told my dad that there was no problems in the brake system at all.
so now im wondering can the SBC fault errors that show up be reseted?
The engineer told my dad that there was no problems in the brake system at all.
so now im wondering can the SBC fault errors that show up be reseted?
10-25-2005, 07:49 PM
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2011 E550, 2013 GLK
There is one important bit of information that's missing. Did the red warning show up on the instrument panel when the incident occurred?
10-25-2005, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BudC
There is one important bit of information that's missing. Did the red warning show up on the instrument panel when the incident occurred?
i duno he not gonna push it, he said hes just gonna fix it and thats it..
well im not gonna ride or drive that car anymore...
10-25-2005, 10:46 PM
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Mercedes all the way!
something strange, surely. you mean the engineer doesn't know how to reset the fault codes? and if he looked at the car and said nothing is wrong, well, it seems very strange that the car would refuse to brake at that particular moment, no?
i just get the strange feeling that there are some pieces of information here that are missing or not entirely accurate. perhaps not surprising as i can never get a straight answer from my own parents regarding what exactly went wrong with our computer - and the E increasing seems like one giant computer :p
i just get the strange feeling that there are some pieces of information here that are missing or not entirely accurate. perhaps not surprising as i can never get a straight answer from my own parents regarding what exactly went wrong with our computer - and the E increasing seems like one giant computer :p
10-25-2005, 11:00 PM
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06 320E CDI, Porsche 911 C2, Pontiac Montana
SBC failures are registered by the computer.
When mine failed, I shut off the engine and restarted and it was like NOTHING happened. When I went to the dealer, my first concern was that they would just tell me that I am crazy but as soon as they plugged it in, they found that it had registered a failure.
When mine failed, I shut off the engine and restarted and it was like NOTHING happened. When I went to the dealer, my first concern was that they would just tell me that I am crazy but as soon as they plugged it in, they found that it had registered a failure.
10-25-2005, 11:21 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by CE750
So I have to ask.. what this "engineer" even German? or was he some MBUSA clown that came out to rubber stamp the car? 
i bet some clown sent over by MBUSA...
i will be hooking it up to my friends star see wat kinda problems came up.
10-26-2005, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tpliquid
My mom just updated me on the situation.
The engineer told my dad that there was no problems in the brake system at all.
so now im wondering can the SBC fault errors that show up be reseted?
The engineer told my dad that there was no problems in the brake system at all.
so now im wondering can the SBC fault errors that show up be reseted?
10-26-2005, 12:34 PM
#43
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im gonna have my buddy hook it up to his star and see if we can pull any errors.
my dad told me hes gonna get rid of the car after the car gets fixed. he is looking at a Audi A6 right now.
my dad told me hes gonna get rid of the car after the car gets fixed. he is looking at a Audi A6 right now.
10-26-2005, 01:44 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
That kind of "service" is PATHETIC. I think I would be looking for a different dealership that had acceptable service.
This is one place where Lexus has MB hands down... MBUSA is not a good example, so why should the dealers be any better.
10-26-2005, 02:02 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by tpliquid
he is looking at a Audi A6 right now.
Interestingly, the A6 is significantly larger and heavier than the W211.
10-26-2005, 04:04 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by jmorgis
I tend to agree, but according to my wife, she had no breaks. But again, im sure she was not pushing with enough force.
But, why would the system fail, on a minor accident? The only damage I have is scrapes and the other cars paint on my bumper. I saw no damage under the car. The first message that came up on the displey, is reduced breaking message, then total SBC Failure. When the truck came to get us, we could not get the car out of park, because the SBC failure.
John
But, why would the system fail, on a minor accident? The only damage I have is scrapes and the other cars paint on my bumper. I saw no damage under the car. The first message that came up on the displey, is reduced breaking message, then total SBC Failure. When the truck came to get us, we could not get the car out of park, because the SBC failure.
John
10-27-2005, 02:01 PM
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
Interestingly, the A6 is significantly larger and heavier than the W211.
The A6 is the same width as the W211 (down to the tenth of an inch!) and is 4 inches longer. Base models weigh within 200lbs. of each other (the Audi is heavier)
10-27-2005, 02:13 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by lig
The A6 is the same width as the W211 (down to the tenth of an inch!) and is 4 inches longer. Base models weigh within 200lbs. of each other (the Audi is heavier)
4" longer and same width is "significant" most cars (smallest to longest) are with in 12" of each other... "displacement" largely effected by the larger dimension, in this case length, is greater on the Audi. It's also taller.
This is why a ship that is panama width, and 800 feet long weighs 1/2 as much as a ship that is panamax and 1200 feet.
My point was, that many think of the A6 as a smaller car, since the later version was.. but the newer A6 is a good sided car.
10-27-2005, 02:24 PM
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
I think in terms of competing cars in their respective classes -
A4 - C Class - 3 Series
A6 - E Class - 5 Series
A8 - S Class - 7 Series
Depending on the styling - a car 4" larger than a different car can look considerably smaller so IMO 4" hardly constitutes a "significant" difference - especially when we're talking about mid-sized cars.
We touched on that earlier when it was pointed out that the Camry and the W211 were within .5" of each other in length even though the E looks far more substantial.
A4 - C Class - 3 Series
A6 - E Class - 5 Series
A8 - S Class - 7 Series
Depending on the styling - a car 4" larger than a different car can look considerably smaller so IMO 4" hardly constitutes a "significant" difference - especially when we're talking about mid-sized cars.
We touched on that earlier when it was pointed out that the Camry and the W211 were within .5" of each other in length even though the E looks far more substantial.
10-27-2005, 02:26 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by lig
I think in terms of competing cars in their respective classes -
A4 - C Class - 3 Series
A6 - E Class - 5 Series
A8 - S Class - 7 Series
Depending on the styling - a car 4" larger than a different car can look considerably smaller so IMO 4" hardly constitutes a "significant" difference - especially when we're talking about mid-sized cars.
We touched on that earlier when it was pointed out that the Camry and the W211 were within .5" of each other in length even though the E looks far more substantial.
A4 - C Class - 3 Series
A6 - E Class - 5 Series
A8 - S Class - 7 Series
Depending on the styling - a car 4" larger than a different car can look considerably smaller so IMO 4" hardly constitutes a "significant" difference - especially when we're talking about mid-sized cars.
We touched on that earlier when it was pointed out that the Camry and the W211 were within .5" of each other in length even though the E looks far more substantial.
The V8's are 3816 and not sure for the Audi.. but I think we're well over 300lbs and 4"
I'm sorry, but I call that significant, ESPECIALLY when were in the same category.. i.e. mid size.
That said, I'm not knocking the Audi for it.. Weight is good if it's managed well, as on the A6.
