Tony Musgrave

As a European user of MB GPS system (DVD based) I also found the system crap.

Apart from being so slow to locate a destination, the POI directed me to fast food outlets when I input Restaurants.

MB have a big problem in Europe as they segregate their customers into 2 groups; those who buy cheap cars have to eat at MacDonalds and those who buy expensive models can eat at proper restaurants. The new 164 series ML is considered by MB to be a cheap car in Europe.

I got so pissed off with the system and faults on other MB models I owned, I voted with my feet and bought Porsche.

glojo

When an owner is unhappy about a certain issue then I believe the only way we will change things is to voice our dissatisfaction. Adults should surely be able to ask who is satisfied and who is not, then list the reasons for either their satisfaction\dis-satisfaction without hysteria or name calling.

Now the difficult bit

Once the information is obtained, write a letter to Mercedes-Benz.

NOT a pathetic E-mail\telephone call a proper written letter of complaint. Maybe a link could be enclosed directing the reader to the relevant thread? Writing a letter will invoke a response and hopefully this response will come from the relevant department??

Now folks seem to be blaming Mercedes-Benz for the lack of data??

Correct me if I'm wrong but I am of the opinion that Mercedes-Benz get the data from different sources. The E-class uses Navteq\Navtech (not sure which) as the supplier of information? This company also supplies a good many other car manufacturers including some of those named on this thread, plus Pioneer.

The actual navigation system is also outsourced???

However Mercedes-Benz purchase the product and put their name to it then add the functions we play with when we get carried away pressing buttons.

Voice activation\Post Code accuracy
That is a mystery as you have already found out the European version is very accurate and the full post code is accepted, so it is WRONG to blame the manufacturer for a local (US) problem.

M-Class COMAND
In the UK owners of the new M-class are already complaining about their 'cut-down' version of COMAND and wish they had the 211 system. European COMAND has the navigation system built in. (It is impossible to have it without this 'option')

I have no idea if the US has Traffic Management Control (TMC) on their COMAND but we have finally had our systems activated and it is a huge improvement.

Toys are nice in a car, but are certainly not the be all and end all. Of course there will be cheaper cars with better toys, I don't care, I don't care one jot. I would like my Mercedes-Benz to have quality options that are functional and user friendly. I am perfectly happy with what is in our vehicle.

S-Class
I am told the new S-class has a hard-drive based system that gets its updates from DVD's so the system will be very fast, but I guarantee some folks will cry that it is not as good as brand 'x' or 'y'

Just my two penarth.

John

A misty afternoon in Torquay

steph280

Those Eclipse unit are also from Denso, with display almost identical to the Toyota/Lexus navs. I agree the 3 routes option are good feature. Plus you can enter "area to avoid" which the route will go around.

Like I said the Toyota/Honda/Nissan nav system is probably 1 if not 2 generations ahead of the COMAND. If it wasn't for COMAND's tightly integration with other components, I'd swap it out with an Eclipse in a heartbeat.

IllCDI

The Eclipse units are very distracting to use... The cars that have these OEM along with their climate control etc makes it even more difficult to use..... You have to look down at the screen, then recall if you can call up climate control via a hardware key or "virtual key" once you figure this out (mostly by trial and error) then u can adjust the fan speed, its just a pain in the *** to have to do all this to just change how fast the fan blows. Changing the radio is even more difficult as for some functions (like on my Lexus) they have touch screen keys and no hardware keys for some functions, and vice versa for others... So you must remember if a certain function is done with either a "virtual key" or a hardware key... What a pain. Unless you are exploring new territory or need a yellow pages in your nav unit its really not that much better.... I rarely leave the county I live in so, I use it mainly for orientation purposes, and to locate small streets that I have never heard of.

steph280

AFAIK only Lexus and Toyota Prius have the climate integration control you're speaking of. The OEM nav in our Toyota Sienna are much simpler to use. Even my wife who is not too technically inclined was able to enter address and found her way to the destination.

Entering an address or city name in the COMAND takes a lot of patience with the stupid cursor or number keys. Are you actually saying this is less distracting than having a full touchscreen keyboard?

Changing from nav map to radio on the COMAND: press Audio once to get to audio menu, and then FM soft button.
Changing from nav map to radio on the Denso nav: press the FM button.
How is that more distracting?

Why else would you use the nav other than exploring new territory? I would trust my Denso nav to take me to any city in NA, but I wouldn't trust my COMAND to even my friend's house next city over.

IllCDI

You can do it via steering wheel buttons and it all appears in the instrument cluster so I would say YES the Denso would be more distracting in that scenario.... The cursor is so much easier to enter destinations with because you get "positive action" I think hardware buttons are easier to use for functions than "phantom" touch screen buttons. I can memorize the location of certain buttons and certain routines, without even looking while driving... With a touch screen it is difficult to do this because you must look over at the screen to see what you are doing....... I used to work for Denso's R&D/Vehicle Navigation System Design group and we compared our units with a bunch of others and without fail the Infiniti (which is a non touch screen unit) was the best in terms of useability, safety, and functionality... Trust me touch screens nav units are by far the most inexpensive nav units to design and manufacture, this is the main reason why the Denso units have so many more "features." In terms of safety you cant beat the Infiniti/BMW/AUDI/MBZ units.

vraa

It's not like the buttons move around from spot to spot. After a few minutes they become second nature to you.
The biggest drawback with the lexus setup is that you can't use it while in motion.

I think (probably because I'm used to it) that the BMW X5 has the best navigation system in the world.

Tony Musgrave

Sure, I am Blaming MB for the Data content on their European DVD based discs.

The Data is collated and sold By TeleAtlas. MB licence the data and have Discs produced.

There are currently two versions of the DVD based COMAND systems, and dependent on which Model car you have, you get COMAND type A or B.

The discs available for European DVD based COMAND are not inter changeable between Type A and B COMAND.

For the sake of simplicity, type A COMAND is fitted into cars that MB percieves will be driven by people on low income.Type B COMAND is fitted to the cars driven by persons in the high income sector that drive E, S,SL,and R Class vehicles. The ML has an A type system.

My written complaint to MB was referred back to the Dealer who verbally agreed there was a problem with the differences in Data.

What did MB have to say to me about this problem ?

Sweet F A.

steph280

COMAND also uses "soft" buttons, those right next to screen. So there is no sense to "memorize buttons" since they will be different depending which screen you're at. you still have to look at the screen when you push those buttons. Except the COMAND sits really low in the W211 console compared to the nav in Toyota which is at same level as the instrument cluster.

You can do what with steering wheel buttons? Change volume and that's about it. last I checked the lame enginners at DC can't even get it to change radio presets. BTW there are also steering wheel buttons on the Toyota that works properly and they DO change radio presets AND scans.

The biggest complaint with Toyota navs was they lock out most functions when vehicle start rolling, just like what Ricky said. But couple months back somebody discovered a secret menu where you can temporarily override the lock. Eventually somebody will come up with a permanent override.

Ever wonder how Tele Atlas collect map data?
http://autoblog.com/2006/01/06/tele-...nav-gets-made/

glojo

Hi Tony,
It would be totally wrong for me to comment on your specific complaint, but TeleAtlas does NOT write the data for the UK 211 E-class.

TeleAtlas does indeed write data for some models and I will not put my foot into the wrong orifice by guessing what models.

Sorry to be a Kill Joy but I am certain of my facts.

Regards,
John

Nevada Jack

Here is the URL for the W220 forum post:

https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w220/132970-mb-nav-s-great.html

IllCDI

On my Gx470 I can only control minor things with the steering wheel buttons....CD track up etc..With the voice command I can control the temp,icons on the screen, etc.. but its usually misdiagnosis my voice commands. Maybe its a personal thing but I like the ability to be able to memorize a certain set of key sequences that will allow me to "for sure" get what I want (without looking). I have sirius on my e-class and it allows me to either go through the presets or go through each individual channel on my instrument cluster via the steering wheel controls, i have never tried it with regular radio, as I never listen to regular radio, but I will give it a shot.

On the sienna i think you are referring to the volume up down up down key sequence which opens up the override submenu. Touch screen is great and user friendly but not very safe...These are just my opinions from dealing with various nav units.

Oh yea forgot to mention Denso doesnt just use "teleatlas" for map data they also use navteq...compare some of the map geometry you can see that its not all TA geometry, some of it is Navteq as both are in some cases accurate or inaccurate.

Its no fluke that all german auto manufacturers use non-touch screen nav devices as trying to use a nav unit that has touch screen at 100mph on the autobahn can be distracting

glojo

Interesting link and it sounds like the US has finally started to use the full potential of navigational Linguatronic that is fitted to European 211's.

ILLCDI
Navteq and TeleAtlas are not interchageable. A Mercedes-Benz Navteq DVD will not work on a Mercedes-Benz TeleAtlas system, likewise a Pioneer Navteq DVD will also not work on the Mercedes-Benz system.

I've tried

Regards,
John

A beautiful cool sunny morning in Torquay

IllCDI

I think you misread my post Teleatlas and Navteq are two companies that provide raw Map Data (i.e. map geometry, ramp locations etc) the actual formatting of this is done by the navigation system manufacturer; Some manufacturers use one or the other to generate their navigation DVD's I was merely pointing out that Denso uses both (since there are some missing map geometry items if you you solely use one or the other). Teleatlas and Navteq do not design the actual DVD's they merely provide the physical map data which is used by Navigation System manufacturers. The Navigation system manufacturers use TeleAtlas/Navteq data to make their own properietary Navigation DVD's. Everything is proprietary

glojo

Got yuh! Totally agree. NavTeq has an excellent site where you can input information that they then use to preiodically update their database, they then pass on these updates at set periods to Mercedes-Benz who hopefully then add it to the next update.

Here in the UK there is no subscription service and each DVD has to be purchased at a rediculously high price.

John

expat5

Wow - what passion on the subject!

For what its worth, I have an E320CDI over here in Germany. It is an APS50, CD based system - not the COMAND system I believe is in the US cars. 1 CD covers practically all of Europe (and I have been in some pretty wierd corners of it over here, let me tell you)

Unlike a previous post from a German resident, I am *extremely* happy with the system. It has made life far less stressful on long trips into areas where I do not speak the language of the locals (Spain, Portugal, France, and Italy being the obvious ones for me). I am able to dial in exact addresses, and it takes me there. True, I do not usually search for restaurants, and it has occiassionally told me to turn right in the middle of a long bridge, but overall I would not change the system.

Heck, I'm rotating back to my company's US facility in March, and I'm planning on bringing the car back with me. I have a separate post in the Electronics section to see if anyone can help me figure out which Nav discs will work in my system in the US

aceman

Gotta Say,

I've had the Nav since thanksgiving (US Comand unit) and i think its fine, even with the whole house number range entry. I think i've used it like 7/8 times, and it always gets me to the street, most times spot on.

I do think it needs work - route calculation could be better. FWIW - i could live w/ the street number range issue because i give a huge THANKYOU to MB for allowing me to enter info while the car is moving (and yes i ahve a 2005 sienna w/ nav and i know about the bypass).

Aceman

Lucci

I tried enterring the GPS coordinates for the street address and it worked great; in that it got me right to the front door of the specific address! On the downside; it still took me in a huge loop, several miles out of the way, I guess to get to a freeway. It is longer in both miles and time so that is just stupid. If I go the way I know and hit the detour buttons a couple times it finds the roads I go on so can't blame it on not knowing the roads are there.

The Eclipse unit is very easy to use and has a lot of common sense options, like pick your choice of 3 routes...

Someone posted in this thread earlier about adding an Alpine system that would still use the OEM screen. Our local dealer is at training on the system next week, so I will look into that when he comes back. Has anyone else tried this already? I think it is the Alpine NVE852-A....

krispykrme

I will disagree with this.

The touchscreen buttons are bigger and easier to use. The DCX command buttons are too small especially the sub-menu buttons.

I still don't understand why taking your eyes off the road using small unmarked buttons is better than bigger on screen touch buttons. This does not make sense.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Put both nav systems in front of a blindman and lets see which one is easier to use.... Ever hear of "brail"......

csumt76

I agree the Nav is garbage...

Everyone gets in my car and starts touching the screen thinking that it will change radio stations or something... I'm like, no, you don't get that for 60K...

IllCDI

Then take it out and put in a 1500 dollar Eclipse or Alpine system in... If you feel the nav unit is garbage its very easy to fix. You already spent 60k on the car might as well put in another 1500 more, and enjoy the car... If you wanted a touch screen nav system you should have went with a Japanese car no German car has touch screen nav units, for good reason.

IllCDI

Krispy,

How do you like your M45 nav? do you prefer your Solara Navi to it?

apdesign

i have one on my CL500, for a high price car like this and they put in some piece of **** navi. even a honda navi is better than mercedes..how embrassing.

steph280

If I could reaplce the COMAND with an Eclipse I'd have done it already. You can't just remove the head unit and expect everything else on the COMAND network to be ok. Each component talk to each other and if one's missing, it's going to throw fits.