bljhmb

Hi All,

I am new to this forum and am hoping to find some wisdom and guidance here. I live in California and so am only able, at this time, to buy a used (7500+miles) turbodiesel. I understand that MB will release a new 320cdi this fall that will have a V6 diesel and use the new ultra low Sulphur S15 diesel fuel. California is also supposed to standardize on the S15 fuel between June and October of this year for all 2007 and beyond diesel engines which will alledgedly make the 2007 cdi available in California. My question is what would your considered recommendation be: Buy a 2006 Certified pre-Owned with low mileage or wait for the 2007 model? Your thoughts and recommendations are most welcome.

cdiken

1) Let someone else get hit with depreciation. The CDI holds value well, and you will have an even better scenario if you buy used, and later need to sell.

2) The Inline-6 is a much more seasoned design. It is constructed with an iron block. The V6 is a new engine, and the first V6 diesel ever from MB. It has many, many more moving parts than the I6 (three turbos, correct me if I'm wrong) in addition to the basic V6 engine which has more moving parts the I6 engine. The V6 is all aluminum.

The only good thing about the V6 is it should lighten the nose of the car a little. Don't believe the hype about more HP, the torque is really about the same, and the V6 has to rev to higher RPM's to achieve that HP. Its just software that makes the HP higher, you can chip the I6 (I did with Carlsson) and it responds very well to the chipping. I now have 240 HP and 425 lb-ft from my I6.

LNL

I'm going through the same quandary, although not being from CA or the other stringent air quality States, I don't have quite the same issue you have.

A couple of things point to the 2007, depreciation and initial cost to buy a car aside. I've read that Mercedes estimates the '07 Bluetec will get 35 mpg combined mileage. If EPA tests confirm that, it will be 5 mpg more than the CDI, or an increase of 16%. The '07 will have a newer brake system, supposedly more direct steering, updated safety systems, and the "new look" (I like it, but it is a subtle difference). In addition, certain optional items will supposedly be "no charge" standard: Glass Sunroof (414), harman/kardon LOGIC7 Digital Surround Sound System (810) and the 6-disc CD Changer (819). See the post at https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/143658-dealer-info-2007-e-class.html for more details, including what the option packages should look like. It's possible the MSRP of the '07 will be less (or no more) than the '06's when similarly equipped (but will probably not be discounted very much due to "newness" and likely high demand).

I've been looking for a nice '05 (or an '06), and some things point there as well. The '05's had dynamic drive seats and ventilated seats available, gone in '06. Plus rear side curtain shades are standard with the rear shade, options in '06 (I like the ones in my BMW, and would like to have them). However, finding the "right" used car is not an easy task; some I've seen are close, but are lacking in a couple of important items (to me anyway). And when I'm dropping that kind of money, I'd like to get what I want (including colors, bi-xenon lights, full leather, folding rear seat, nav, heated seats, etc.).

Low mileage used CDI's I've seen are advertised for asking prices in the high $40's to low $50's. Mercedes dealers are starting to close out the '06's with low lease rates and/or good finance rates + cash incentives, so buying a new '06 now isn't going to run a whole lot more than buying a used one.

From my perspective, getting the newer technology, the updated car, and ordering exactly what I want has some advantages. However, you won't go wrong with a preowned CDI. Depends if the differences and extra cost make a difference to you.

Lou

jimbo1mcm

I might be wrong, but I thought I read that the Bluetec would be legal in most, but not all states. Don't know about CA. I have the full leather, and drive dynamic seats, which are really neat. My recommendation would be to find a nice 05 or 06 CDI. The engine is very smooth. The mileage on the new Bluetec will not be different than the 05 or 06.

cyclerider

I believe you are correct. The BlueTec will only be legal in the same 45 states as the current diesel model. Here is a link to a Car and Driver article which has some more info.

http://www.caranddriver.com/autoshow...0-bluetec.html

LNL

I've read some articles to the contrary. According to a some, the E320 Blutec, which uses a "DeNOx storage catalytic converter" (and not the "AdBlue" urea based tank system, to be used on larger vehicles like the M-class) will be clean enough for all 50 States emission standards.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...es_to_int.html

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...rchrysler.html

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=108818

A bit confusing to say the least.

Lou

shoes

I am also confused about whether Bluetec will be available in CA this September. As a previous owner of a 2005 diesel, I am looking forward to being able to spec out a car since I hated the SBC brakes.

Have you guys heard that VW is bringing back the V10 diesel Toureg for a limited time and it will be available in California as a new car. I have confirmed this information, but as yet, haven't figured out why this diesel can be sold new in CA and wondering if this rule will also allow the sale of the MB diesel E Class.

KosherBenz

2007+ aluminum v6 < 2005-2006 cast iron I6

cdiken

May sneak through on gross weight classification, since it is so much heavier it may be considered a truck, lumped in with the Duramax/Cummins/Powerstoke types.

Liebenz

I've got a question about Bluetec vs CDI. Bluetec is supposed to be cleaner, however the new gizmos that scrub the exhaust apparently make CO2 as a waste product. Does anyone know if the Bluetec will produce more greenhouse gases in order to produce less NOx and particulate?

mbr129

IMO, if you are looking for a diesel RWD sedan, get a 2005-2006 CDI.

OTOH, I want a diesel AWD wagon, so I have no choice but to hope MBUSA becomes enlightened and brings the car over in the future, so I'm stuck with the V6 regardless of whether it is better or not (if they ever offer the wagon).

KosherBenz

the bluetec will have 4matic!

LNL

That would be excellent! I know that the 4Matic is available in Europe, but I have not seen anywhere that MBUSA is planning on bringing the diesel 4Matic to the States (wagon, or the sedan also?). What is your source?

Lou

CDI

Make no mistake : the V6 is a better engine than the I-6. It doesn't have 3 turbos, only one turbo. The new V6 has the 7g-Tronic 7-speed automatic gear box wich is far superior than the excelent 5-speed of the previous CDI. It also has better performances (in Europe, this V6 CDI has the same performances as the BMW's 5 series 3 lt twin-turbo diesel with 272 hp altough the MB only has 224 hp) and is even more quiet.

Besides that, the E-class with V6 CDI has established a speed and durability record in a track in the USA because 3 E-class 320 CDI have made 100 000 miles at a speed of 225,9 Km/h without any malfunction. The FIA gave a price to Mercedes because of that. Looks like that the days of the problems are gone again for Mercedes

TPAbnz

MBUSA said "No" to me too.

What is your source for this? Please post it here.

KosherBenz

I cant remember offhand the site where I read it, but if I rememeber correctly the the advantage to going to a v6 as the engine position. On the I6 could not hook up to the 4matic system and the v6 could. Maybe I am mistaken, but time will tell I guess.

Germancar1

That is correct, the old I6 takes up too much space for the 4Matic hardware. The new V6 is much more compact so 4Matic fits.

It would be a true shame if MBUSA doesn't offer the new diesel with 4Matic when E350/550 4Matics are very popular in certain areas.

M

silberrosa

The MY07 E320 Bluetec (45 state) will not be available with 4matic. Yes, it is technically possible with the new V6 CDI engine in standard form as it will be in Europe. However, 4matic is not possible for the USA Bluetech version. The packaging of the DeNox filter uses some of the space which is required for the 4matic system and therefore it is not yet technically possible. If all of a sudden huge demand develops for a diesel 4matic (x,xxx's) then MB could probably figure it out.

LNL

That's too bad. You'd think the demand would be there for a low mileage diesel + all wheel drive. I wonder what percentage of the E-class cars sold are 4matic and what percentage are rear wheel drive.

Lou

TPAbnz

Here's some comprehensive information on the V6:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...edes-e-320-cdi

LNL

Interesting, and quite technical, article.

Given all I've read, I'm still leaning toward the '07 model.

Germancar1

Yeah that is a bummer, a 4Matic diesel would have been a killer car and so unique in the marketplace. That GS450h Lexus doesn't have AWD either.

M

harkgar

Would you recommend the installation of a Kleemann tuning box? Any problems or comments? Any experience with Carlsson or other diesel boxes?

Many thanks!

harkgar

_______________________________________
1) older engine is a straight six with iron block. It is inherently more balanced than a V-6. Iron block is sturdier than alloy & therefore better for a high compression diesel engine.
2) the turbo sits in the valley of the V-6. Heat buildup must be crazy. Everytime you want to get at the engine the turbo has to come out. The straight 6 has the turbo to one side.
3) there are 3 different "filters" in the Blue Tec. Think of replacement costs & trouble lights when any one of these things go wrong.
4) if urea injection happens as planned you have to take the car back to MB to fill up every time. No such thing with the straight 6.
5) Straight 6 is a tried and proofed engine in Europe using ultra low sulphur diesel.
6) I am sure there will be a price increase with the Blue Tec.

oilbelcher

if you are that worried about types of emmisions, buy a small electric hybrid car.