harperb

I'm nearing the purchase of a E320 CDI, partly to be able to use biodiesel in it from a local, very highly regarded co-op here in San Francisco (and others in the bay area). I was wondering if any of you run biodiesel in your CDI's, and if so, how has it been? I know the kicker here is that biodiesel fuel quality can very greatly, but assuming it's first rate quality (and from many places it is), how has it worked for you? Any problems? Better/worse fuel economy? Better/worse running engine, etc? I don't want to spend a fortune on this car, only for it to have issues with the running biodiesel, although I know Willie Nelson has a CDI over in Maui, fills up at pacific biodiesel, and has had nothing but good things to say about his car running on B100.

Any info would be appreciated, before/if I take the plunge!

Thanks,
Ben

TPAbnz

Not approved per Owner's Manual.

harperb

Of course not. There's no way for any auto company to ensure consistent quality of biodiesel. There are standards out there, but not every place that sells it adheres to those standards. It's certainly understandable why that is the case, but it doesn't make it any less viable for places that sell quality biodiesel - it's often better than the high sulfur garbage sold here in the US until the fall of this year.

BudC

***** Nelson uses biodiesel in his CDI and (he says), it works fine. http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/u...ts/willie.shtm

His wife has a Jetta diesel which also runs on biodiesel.

harperb

Yeah, I also heard him on Fresh Air on NPR this week, talking about how he has had zero problems, and actually gets better gas mileage with biodiesel in his CDI than with regular diesel in it. Go Willie!

DavidNJ

Now there is person with impeccable engineering credentials. I get all my technical info from him. A person without any other agendas clouding his judgment.

KosherBenz

you can expect about a 10% drop in fuel economy and power. Its to be expected as there is less energy biodiesel than regular diesel. When mine goes off of warantee, and if I can get bio I will start using it then.

harkgar

How do you like your Kleeman tuning box? Any problems? What is the mileage on your new car? 425 lb-ft is way more torque than my 1999 E-55 and 40 mpg is much superior to 17 mpg. You need to change the rear tires regularly though. How much did you pay and was it dealer installed?

Many thanks!

KosherBenz

No problems at all. There is a bit of smoke if you floor it for more than 3-5 seconds. Under normal load, you there is no more smoke than normal. as for milage, it has increased about 3 mph on the highway. I got about 13K miles, but I baby it so the tires still look good, and they are stockers so they are kinda of a hard compund. As for install, 30minutes - 1 hour. Same for deinstall.
R/
Evan

harkgar

I am trying to get my MB dealer to sell me one of his 6 brand new 2006 CDIs cheaply without success. There is a dealership in Maryland advertising a $7,000.00 reduction which is great. Like the idea of fuel economy and performance rolled into one.

Love the sound of your Kleemanized 2006! Did you dyno it? How does it feel at WOT before and after? Please share the information with us. Thanks.

Hark

TPAbnz

How much more than $7,000 do you expect them to discount?

khaug

M-B says: "Only use commercially available vehicular diesel fuels No. 2 or No. 1 (ASTM D975 No 2-D or No 1-D)." No way would I use anything else! If you used an alternative fuel and it caused problems, your warranty would be void.

The E320 CDI is a unique combination of power and economy. IMHO, if you plan to screw with this great example of German engineering by using an unapproved fuel touted by some ignorant celebrity, you're asking for whatever results you get!

Best regards and good luck!

harperb

Mercedes and VW are in the process of certifying these "alternative fuels" touted by "some ignorant celebrity" for use in their cars. The biodiesel/biofuel industry in the US isn't quite mature enough yet for them to certify it, but it will be a reality in the near future. If you have a quality manufacturer that meats the ASTM standard for biodiesel, then you should be fine. I certainly wouldn't put biodiesel in any car from a remotely questionable merchant.

DavidNJ

biofuels will be an interesting concept in the 23rd century. Since coal replaced wood, mined or pumped natural fuels have more affective.

I wouldn't say the MB diesel is a unique combination, except for the US and Canada. There are many equally good or even better diesels in Europe. And VW's twin charger (a direct injection, stratified charge, 177hp 1.3L engine with a supercharger and turbocharger) may be an indication of ways to get similar performance on gas.

harperb

Very true. I've driven some amazing diesels in europe (especially the BMW 320d), that i'd love to have available in the US. The 320d had AMAZING performance, and AVERAGED 45mpg whilst driving around in mix of city and autobahn driving. I'm only getting the Mercedes because i've had so many VW/Audi products that it wouldn't excite me very much, and obviously, no BMW diesels in the 'states for the next few years.

I think diesel has almost reached the end of it's limits in terms of fuel economy and emissions - now petrol looks like it will be catching up within the next several years. No easy way to run "home-grown" fuels in petrol cars (ethanol is 10000% times worse than biodiesel in terms of performance, fuel economy, and taking as much energy if not more to make it than it produces [tho that might change within the next few years]). Should be an interesting time as the US struggles to get off of foreign oil - and oil in general. I hope honda indeed has a viable hydrogen-powered car out within 3 years, like they say they do - and the infrastructure to power it. Also, congrats to BMW for sticking their neck out and announcing the 7 series with a hydrogen/gas engine combination coming out in a few years.

harkgar

I am happy if he knocks off 7 k but he said 2 k. I am waiting for the 2007 Blue Tec diesels to come in. Prices for the 2006s will come down then.

harkgar

TPAbnz: I do not know what I did but I sent my reply to Harperb instead of you. The answer is I will buy one if the dealer takes off 7 k.

rsatmans

Hey guys you could try some b20 out in your car its only 20% bio and 80 % petro i use in my 99 e300 turbodiesel and it drives alot better with less noise and im not sure about more power but the car has less tubo lag smoother it semms just some input

bryatl

glojo

In Europe it is a very strict no, no for our engines. There have been very knowledgeable folks explaining how it will eventually destroy fuel pumps etc. but that is way above my expertise. All I know is it will invalidate our free thirty year warranty.

As has already been stated, it's a free country, use what you want to use, but don't cry when, or if it goes bang.

John

cyclerider

...and mine only comes with a four year warranty. I've GOT to move to England!

glojo

In fairness I might be guilty of not explaining this warranty.

Mobilio commences on the second year of ownership and is renewed after every service at a main dealer, but the vehicle MUST be serviced at least once every two years. This 'warranty' covers bodywork against corrosion from the inside out, and also breakdowns. If your vehicle breaks down anywhere in Europe, yes Europe and not just the UK, then you will be covered for roadside assistance, removal to a main dealer, free hotel accommodation (for a limited period) or free courtesy car if yours cannot be fixed straight away.

People that don't like using main dealers criticise this warranty, but those that have needed it speak very highly about it.

On a UK forum I have recently read about a 211 owner who was in France when their car blew a turbo. This vehicle was just under four years old, the incident happened late one Friday evening, the owner was put up in a hotel for the week-end, the turbo was replaced and the owner went merrily on his way late Monday evening. The cost??? Free, completely free for a repair that would cost well in excess of £1000. This was a goodwill gesture on behalf of Mercedes-Benz, but if the owner did not have Mobilio then no 'good will'

At present there are hundreds, if not thousands of claims for corrosion, and again this comes under the thirty year cover.

http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/cont...pt_secret.html

Regards,
John

MagicO309D

This is just a guess but I believe that BioDiesel should not be an issue with the engine and fuel delivery system itself. My concern is what Bio fuel would do to the emmisions system especially the catalyst. This should be even more of a concern as of MY 07 since Bluetek runs 3-4 different types of soot filters and catalysts in the exhaust system. I'd be afraid that they would clog if the biofuel makes the system run cold or burn through if it makes the system run too hot.

Anyone know for sure?

revstriker

The bottom line is that Mercedes does not authorize the use of this fuel in their cars. If you decide to use it, and then have a problem, it might not be covered under warranty.

With that said, I suppose Mercedes would have to know you were using a bio product vs a regular one. I'm not sure how easy this would be for them unless you admitted it.

cyclerider

Actually MBUSA is softening their position on BioDiesel. This is a direct quote from the 2007 E-Class brochure:

"Mercedes-Benz approves the use of B5 bio diesel (approved diesel fuel with a maximum 5% bio diesel content) in all CDI/BLUETEC engines. The only approved bio diesel content is one that both meets ASTM D6751 specifications and has the oxidation stability necessary to prevent deposit-/corrosion-related damages to the system (min. 6h, proven by EN 14112 method). Please see your service station for further information. If the B5 bio diesel blend does not clearly indicate that it meets the above standards, please do not use it. The Mercedes-Benz limited warranty does not cover damage caused by non-Mercedes-Benz-approved fuel standards."

So, as you see, it is all extremely simple!