SAguirre

The 4-Matic system is a great system as it stands. If you really want to stagger the wheels it is only for aesthetics. I suppose that your point of having lower tire pressure (significantly lower) is probably worse than the difference of a few revolutions per mile in a staggered setup, but you need to know that you are going to have some real warranty claim issues if you ever have any problem with the 4-matic differentials or sensors. Even if the problem has nothing to do with the staggered setup, they WILL scapegoat the tire diameter difference (however small it is) as the culprit. Once the car is out of warranty though, then it really does not matter.

If someone drives with low tire pressure the tire will fail relatively soon. It is common practice on all AWD cars to always buy 4 tires at once, rotate them and keep them within recommended tire pressure. If you get tires that are already different when they are new, you will not be able to rotate them, they will most likely wear very differently and they might cause differential wear (at least).

Aside from looks, I really don’t think that the juice is worth the squeezing. I personally think that it would look like a wasted modification to the car since the 4_matic already gives you great traction.

Steve

cyclrder

points well taken.....

but.. in the end my goal is to put 18s on the car.. for handling and aesthetics.

1.I want to stick with factory optional wheels and I think that the current AMG E63 wheels are awesome.

2. it is a lot easier to buy someone's take offs rather than paying full boat from the dealer... and can you imagine trying to buy 2x 8.5 fronts (and using spacers on the rear) from two different people selling them? (I don't think so)

3. (speaking of width) If I understand correctly.. the car is basically a rear wheel drive car (unlike an Audi/Subaru until slippage occurs then the power is sent to the front wheels to a maximum of 40/60 split (the newer 4matic goes to 35/55) .... now, my thought process could be flawed (just wanting to imitate the looks of a AMG wagon might be cause enough for most on the forum viewers sans the guys on the AMG threads to question my thoughts) .. but the wider tires would improve traction and push the threshold higher before that to occur. So the penalty of having to drive all 4 wheels instead of the original two is delayed longer.

4. (speaking of circumference) if I use 245/40/18s front and 275/35/18s back, depending on tires... I should have about 11mm +/- difference (using the AMG setup of 265/35/18s would give you 33mm +/-)... I'm betting that it would be negligible to the computer in the car (thus the car stays in its normal state of rear wheel drive). The problem arises when people are using AMG or going more aggressive and the circumferences are significantly greater than what I am describing. That causes the computer to send torque to the front of the car all the time.. over time, I would suspect that it will destroy the transfer case.

I am taking the car in for service on Thursday.. will talk with the service manager at length about my dilemma.... will update after.

ATS

After all the messages in here I am perplexed. It seems no matter what, you want to do it.. Knock yourself out.

The car is not built for it, period. If you could do it, Mercedes would offer it in Europe (take a look at their options over there, there are thousands of different combinations while we have a less then 100). Send an email to AMG in Germany and watch what their reply is.

55fanatic

you know its going to eventually destroy your vehicle... and you want to do it because you still think its going to make a difference... its not a rear wheel drive car... a rear wheel drive car puts 100% of the power to the rear wheels... what you have is a RWD Biased vehicle, not rear wheel drive...

you can put the wheel on there thinking your Gaining something but in fact the telemetry of your vehicle will be throwing all kinds of strange numbers at your ECU and then it WILL cut power(engage ESP) as much as it needs to keep wheels "from spinning" as it thinks they are, OR it will throw a check engine light because the numbers its calculating are impossible.

If you are looking for something sporty, get a new vehicle... its not an E55wagon... or an E63 wagon, its not designed for staggered wheels... Anything you MAY gain, will prolly be hampered by the extra weight of the wagon rear end... and will go unnoticed.

If you would like some new wheels so your station wagon doesnt look so family oriented... order a set of aftermarket wheels... Check with forum sponsors and see about getting a set of TSW bremmas(duplicates of the AMG twin spokes)... to work with 4 matic... not AMG staggered wheels

putting wheels on knowing they are gonna destroy the transfer case is very dumb, I have some investment oppurtunities if you throw your money away like that...

and YES I know what your going through... Im from boston and I got myself a REAR WHEEL DRIVE E500 sport sedan, regardless of snow or not, its what I wanted as its more fun to drive then a 4matic... thats also why god created snow tires...

Alan Smithee

Yo, cyclrder...

Don't kid yourself that you are contemplating wider rear wheels/tires on an AWD car with a front weight bias for the sake of improved handling.

It's your car...if you think it looks better, go ahead (plenty of folks throw 'dubs' on their cars for "the look" regardless of compromises in performance)...but potential long-term mechanical damage aside, wider rear wheels/tires WILL degrade the handling dynamics by increasing understeer.

cyclrder

Alan,

thanks for the support.... it looks like I will stick with the non staggered wheel arrangement.... I will probably buy 4x 8.5/245/40/18s style VI. Wheel Tech said that they would sell the style VI for $625 each or IV for $575... (anyone have comments about Wheel Tech?)

Interesting enough.... I was told by the Kleemann people that the air shocks in the E500 4matic and the E55 wagon are the same (irregardless of part numbers) ... theoretically, he said that I could switch the airmatic brain between the two and I would have the more aggressive suspension of the E55 .. clearly, I would have to add the AMG sway bars (a pair are in the classifieds) as the non-AMG cars do not have sway bars.. I have not looked under my car to see for sure.. I am simply relaying what Kleemann USA had to say.

ATS

I believe the E500 has sway bars, just not the same ones that are on the E55/E65.

SAguirre

If they don't have sway bars it must be because of the airmatic, but I can tell you for a fact that non-airmatic cars do have sway bars. However, the AMG sway bars have always been much thicker and stronger than the stock models.

Steve

cyclrder

nope.. the Director of Kleemann USA told me specifically that the E500 4matic does not have sway bars (steel framed cars do... non-4matic..dunno about 6 cyclinder wagons as some of them have a self raising rear.. sort of a passive airmatic)..

He said that the mounting points are all there.. but that the system is active and that putting the AMG bars on would be counter productive unless I switched the brain...

as he has been under more of these cars than any of us.... I will go with his comments.

He also commented that the specifications that I suggested for a staggered setup would work...
he had seen a car that had put 22k on a setup that did cause the diff to fail.. but the circumference differences were way more than the 11mm I'm looking for.. or the 33mm that a straight E55/63 swap would give you... (just passing on the info)

health services

Just wondering If you are going to buy a new set of wheels and tires, why not just go with 18 x 9 and 265s all around? As soon asd my tires wear out I'm going with 275 all around. Of course I'll need another pair of 18 x 9s

55fanatic

cyclrder: If you speak with the folks in the AMG forum... the suspension systems are different, part numbers and all... I even created the thread in the E55 section seeing if I could do a simple airmatic ECU reflash to use the 55s...

Here is the best response to my question...

cyclrder

55fanatic; I had seen that thread also.. and I have to admit that I would have to assume that it is something more than a simple ECU flash to make the cars handle differently. Maybe you could get a 5-10% change??? again... I was simply relaying the Kleemann people (clearly, skeptics are amongst us!)

Health services: I'm in NYC... so the potholes are a major factor.. a 245/40/18 profile is about as low as I want to go.. I also don't want to go with more than 8.5 on the front. That would be the size that comes on the front of the new car.. I would suspect that 9s would make the car handle poorly. If you notice in the accessory catalogue.. you will see that MB does not recommend certain 18 wheels unless they vehicle has the airmatic system.

TheGreatOne45

can you use 4 front e63 wheels which are 18x8.5 ET38 with 245/40/18 tires all around on a 4matic with no probs?

psoas

I had the same idea for my gl450 (also 4matic).

I had bought 22 inch rims all the same size, but much like the factory rims, the rears are "tucked in" more than the front. That to me is the biggest net gain of the staggered set up.

What I did was buy 2 15 mm hubcentric h&r spacers, you'll need to get longer bolts too (15 mm might be too much for your set up, I'd guess 10mm).

This will give you the "look" of staggered set up. You wont have that big rear lip that most get from a wider rear rim, but mercedes factory "sport" rim set ups dont have that big of a lip anyway.

you will have the same O.D. front to rear, and you will be able to rotate your tires.

cost of spacers is under 100.00

Running spacers is something that many won't do, but I think in this situation it is the only thing that can be done to get the look you are after, short of buying different offset rear rims(which you couldnt rotate)

good luck

cyclrder

for what is it worth.. my wheels are off of an CLS55 AMG... they are 8.5 and 9.5 in wide.(that is up over an E AMG by an inch with a 5mm diff offset that in my opinion looks better as they give a very wide stance without the negative attributes of spacers.. plus.. the CLS is an "E" in drag.. so basically it is the same car).. you could easily do 8.5s all the way around.. or even the rear s off of a E55/E63 ...

If I had to do it all over again.. I would go with the CLS63 fronts all the way around and spacers in the back.

TheGreatOne45

do u need to use spacers in the back if ur using E63 fronts all around or would u b using the spacers for show?

cyclrder

I would think more for show.

TheGreatOne45

oh ok thats what i thought bc im gonna get E63 fronts all around on my car and I didnt wanna use spacers

psoas

exactly...the spacers are just to give the appearance of a wider rear rim.

jason3977

YOU CAN RUN STAGGERED RIMS IF YOU LIKE BUT YOU HAVE TO MATCH THE TIRE SIZE TO SUIT. I AM RUNNING 20" RIMS ON MY 4MATIC. THE FRONT RIMS ARE 20X9 AND THE REAR ARE 20X10. THE FRONT TIRES HAS TO BE 245/30/20 AND THE REAR HAS TO BE 285/25/20. THERE IS NO OTHER TIRE SIZE THAT WORKS. THE TIRE SIZE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE OF THE OVER ALL HIEGHT OF YOUR TIRES THEY HAVE TO BE THE SAME. GOOD LUCK!

Polar Bear

Anyone know if the AMG Style VI will work on a CDI staggered?

psoas

According to bigwheels.net the follow are the O.D.

245/35-19...654mm
285/30-19...654mm

255/35-19...661mm
295/35-19...660mm

275/30-19...648mm

I would thinks any of above combinations would be fine

fyi I am running the 255/295 set up on 19x9 fronts, 19x9.5 rears. both with et35 off sets on a rear wheel drive e500. no rubbing

I dont know if the offsets are the same for 4matics

dave