cyclrder

I am trying to figure out what wheel sizes will work on the my 05 4matic wagon?

is staggered not recommended because of the 4matic sensors? I am thinking of using 245/40/18 8.5 front / 275/35/18 on the rear .. this will give me about 11mm diff in circumference (2052.1mm and 2041.1) (326.6 mm radius and 324.8) .... note that different tires are slightly + or - vary by manufacture.

the E65 comes with 8x18 ET 30 245/40/18 9x18 ET 39 265/35/18
the special addition option is 8.5 and 9.5 (see the AMG catalogue)

would the be offsets be diff on a 4matic vs a non 4 or vs an AMG55/65 wagon/sedan?

thoughts, ideas, and cold hard facts welcome.....

thnks

Benz-O-Rama

I'm pretty sure it's not healthy for the car to run a staggered setup on a 4matic. I'm sure someone here will confirm though.

hazehk

actually i'm wondering about the same thing.

Barry45RPM

I can tell you that if you order the Sports Package option on a 4 matic, it will not be built with staggered wheels. All 4 are the same size. Now, since it makes a negligible "cost" difference to MB which wheels/tires the car is getting, it would seem to me that the engineers of the car feel one shouldn't have different size wheels/tires on a 4 matic.

Besides, why would you want to give up the ability to rotate your tires, and get 1/3 more life out of them? The performance gained by having staggered wheels isn't worth the tire life trade off. A passer by won't notice the staggered set up either... I'd just as soon have all four the same on my incoming car. These cars really aren't race cars... its all just marketing.

cyclrder

I was at the MB dealer here in NYC yesterday.. was talking to the service manager.. he said that it wouldn't be a problem...(hmmmm )

my real question is if other than the size of brake rotors.. would the axle dimensions be different from a 4matic and the standard car (AMG or not).. I'm sure that the front assembly is definitely different...but can't imagine the rear axle being different.

AMG wheel package is 8.5/18/ET 38 245/40/18 all around (code791)

Barry,

for me.. it is two fold
1. 18 inch wheels will give a crisper feel while driving.
2. it looks cooler.... I am not looking for a baby hauler... my 05 sport package E500 wagon is a compromise for two cars as I live in the city.. It will take my dog, girlfriend, and any future additions quite nicely... so if I can make it look anything closer to a E63 wagon.. then I will. Let's face it.. if your heart doesn't pound a little faster when you see a E55/E63 wagon...then you need to pump up your Geritol dose...

so back to my question... has anyone successfully installed AMG wheels on a 4matic? what offsets?

Barry45RPM

I do agree, the ride "Feel" is crisper/sportier... arent you worried about NYC "Quality of Pavement" (High Sewers, steel plates, Potholes) bending rims on 18's w/ lower profile tires? ...or are you just looking for a wider tire for the rear?

...and The E 63/E55 are superb cars but don't even belong in NYC/Long Island, due to the crappy roads, 5 million stop signs, and income producing Radar traps. (I think the entire Borough of Staten Island's budget is funded by traffic stops alone, and everyone on Staten Island IS a Cop or lives with/is married to/or is the kid of a Cop. LOL

Of course I'd like to own one, but paying that much to sit in an identical looking car to an E 350 with Sports/AMG packages/effects, and never get to experience the driving thrill of one, leaves me in an E500, watching my wheels, and looking for who is lurking behind a Stop Sign.

I myself would rather my car came with 17's that looked as nice as the 18 Sport Pkg wheels, all the same size for those reasons. ...but thats why we're all different!

cyclrder

I agree about the roads... thus I am not going 19s. And you are correct about Long Island... my jaunts are usually upstate or PA/VT.

so far.. from reading the AMG download PDF.. I believe that these wheel sizes will work on the 4matic (unless I am corrected..thus this open forum)

8 (8.5) x 18 ET30 (offset) 245/40
8.5 x18 ET38 (offset) 245/40
9 x18 ET39 (offset) 245/40 (rear only)


question... can anyone explain the diff it would be from a 30 offset to 38?

lkchris

8mm!

lkchris

You won't find a 4WD manufacturered anywhere in the world with staggered front/rear rolling diameter tire/wheel sizes.

Same reason you don't mount different size wheel/tire rolling diameter wheels/tires on left and right side of same axle.

There's a front/rear differential on 4WDs in addition to left/right differentials.

Just like the fact in a turn the outside wheel is going farther than the inside wheel, the front and rear wheels aren't in the same track and are therefore not necessarily going same speed either.

cyclrder

thanks.....
in or out? how off center does it make the wheel to the alignment that the suspension is designed to be otherwise known as camber? ... c’mon.. anyone with some intelligent answers other than internet desktop experts throwing out advice that they picked up reading a crutchfield catalogue?

cyclrder

Kent! news alert... I think that you need to send an urgent note to Porsche and explain the terrible engineering mistake that they have made!


(see... another example of a desktop expert)

AsianML

IIRC, the AWD systems in Porsche and Mercedes are different! Kent was also referring to the diameter of the wheels, not the width (if I read correctly).

cyclrder

clearly we all know that the systems are diff..

why may I ask.. if you match the the revs / mile as close as possible

using the http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html .. that it not work?

I can match 245/40/18 (784 revs/mi) with a 275/35/18 (788 revs/mi) ..would the 4 revolutions per mile be a problem? the width of the tires should not make a difference in my humble opinion.

I was thinking 8.5 front and 9 or 9.5 diff

Roupin

If you can clear the 4matic sensors and if the rear axles are the same width, then wider wheels/tires out back will work. The tires will be the same diameter and will not be a problem. The Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 follows a similar setup as the 4matic and has staggered wheels. Keep in mind though that if you drive on snow or ice, you will have slightly less traction because of a lower weight per square inch on the tire's footprint (wider footprint while the weight of the car is unchanged).

The easiest way I'd guess is to go to your local MB dealer, tell the SA of your situation, pop a guy $20 and have a rear set of wheels and tires from a sport package W211 testfitted on your wagon. Before anyone freaks out here, you're not roadtesting your car with the wheels, just testfitting them.

55fanatic

if your planning on keeping the car long term... just get the same wheels for the front of the E63 all around.

the added stress of staggered wheels is usually not great for your 4matic system.

Also keep in mind your ESP will be somewhat thrown off in unequal amounts with a staggered set up

KosherBenz

don't do it, dont try it even.

my06clk

YOu can do wht you want it;s your car... Just understand that Staggering the wheels on you car is like putting staggered wheels on an ML.
When you have an ALL WHEEL DRIVE car the ESP works differently that the two wheel cars, All 4 wheels must turn a precisely the same speed. When you use staggered wheels, there is going to be a difference in overall wheel diameter between the front and back. SO, my guess is you will have ESP warnings all the time.

Be AWARE.. since the Factory Doesn't Support this Set-up by design,
you will get laughed at when you drive up to the dealer with Tranny, ESP, or Tire wear issues on warranty and they see you have been running staggered wheels on an all wheel drive car.

I'd venture to say that any MB CSR who says "it should be okay" to do this knowing fully well that you can't even get a car from MB like this should be working the beverage stand not handling service.

But it's your car, and I wish you the best of luck.

Roupin

Not arguing with you guys, but I'm curious why you'd say that the ESP would act up in this situation?

The RWD sport package cars have the same ESP system and have a 0.4" diameter difference between the front and rear tires. If he goes with a 245/40and 275/35 staggered setup, the difference between the two in diameter would only be 0.15" which should be negligible. In fact, I bet you can find a difference like that on most 4matic cars now, due to inflation differences or uneven tire wear between the axles. On all AWD cars there's always a certain amount of play allowed between the axles, but I don't know how much it is on these cars.

ESP doesn't know anything about the width of the wheels and tires, it only measures the differences in speed between the axles, which would be sensitive only to the diameter of the tires.

As I see it, the main issue would be the width of the tires, and if there's enough clearance to mount them or not.

cyclrder

I had also talked with the Tirerack rep (from here on the board) .. He also said that it could be done... but would have to take particular attention to what tires chosen as they can vary from tire to tire even if they are the same series (ex. 265/35/18).. besides, how many soccer moms are riding around with 22lbs of pressure in the rt front and left rear... It is a sin committed every day.

the real issue for me is going to be offset. (cause if I am buying aftermarket or from non MB sources or they are take offs from another car...so I won't be able to send them back!)

Alan Smithee

I always get a good laugh when I see a FWD or AWD Audi with wider rear wheels/tires. Don't be that guy.

55fanatic

Why? because on a AWD car... ESP kicks in on ALL 4 WHEELS and transmits power amongst 4 wheels...

RWD, kicks in on Rear wheels... it may apply brakes to front wheels but it cant transmit power...

when the equations are calculated they are coded for certain ratios... SO by putting in staggered wheels... you throw everything entirely off...

Roupin

But why would ESP even intervene if you are running the same diameter between the axles? When all the tires on the four corners of the car are the same diameter, ESP wouldn't have any clue about the staggered setup.

This is exactly the same scenario as the new Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8. They come with a staggered setup from the factory, and the AWD system on that car functions the same as 4matic. The power is sent to the rear wheels until there's a difference in speeds, then the front axle kicks in. That car arrives from the factory with staggered wheels and tires, but they are the same diameter all around.

Trust me on the Jeep issue, I was seriously looking into one before getting the E. I'm just not sure if there are any differences between the Jeep's system and 4matic.

55fanatic

they were designed to run a staggered set up... not only diameter makes a difference, the WIDTH of the wheel makes a difference as well.

Any awd car could run a staggered set up or even different size rims, if its designed to, the E class was designed to run equal diameter and equal width, mechanically it COULD be possible, but electronically, the amount of force its calculating on the rear wheels is going to make it think that the front wheels are lacking traction(smaller width, less contact area, less traction) hence on a normal turn, your going to see a blinking orange triangle on your dashboard

Roupin

Gotcha. I didn't think the system is sensitive enough to measure a weight difference. Thanks for explaining it.

55fanatic

its not "weight" that it measures... but certain calculations, it reads...

The SRT8 uses a dumb down version of our ESP... I believe version 1 type of thing while our cars are on a much more advanced system...

this is part of the technology sharing with Chrysler, they get older technology from MB...