Tschuss_Bill

Do it the right way, use non-modified base bulbs in a projector designed for HID. You'll have a bixenon setup. Suggest retrofit resource for all of this stuff. On W211 the projector swap is a bolt in project, no dremmeling required. If a hundred bucks is all you got towards this car, go for it. I'd spend a little more and do it right.

jcat

the ONLY difference between xenon and non-xenon projectors in the w211 as far as I can tell is the bulb base. You're saving yourself a TON of money and time by not swapping projectors over. Don't forget, you'd also have to get the appropriate factory harnesses and ballasts to connect up to your car's headlamp harnesses. It's not as simple as you're making it seem.

DDM sells error eliminators (version 3) by the pair. You need one error eliminator per light, or one pair per set.

I did my heads and fogs for $108 all together. Even with cutting the spring steel baskets and putting holes in the dust caps to run the wires out I've driven over potholes and rough roads, for about 4 months now since I installed them with not even so much as a flicker. Everything is still exactly where I left it and is running perfect.

I'd rather not purchase a set of OE xenon projectors (you'd likely have to buy the xenon headlamp assemblies at ~800 used or more), then if they didn't come with it, source the OE ballasts, intermediate harness from the body harness to the ballasts, then source OE or aftermarket D2R or D2S (don't recall what the w211 uses) bulbs. Even philips D2R bulbs at autozone are ~$120 a piece.

Will it look "more factory"? Yes. Will it be more reliable? I don't think you could say definitively yes.

When you look at the cost of it all, you're likely going to drop about $1500 all said and done. That means my DDM kit can catastrophically fail (bulbs, ballasts, error eliminators and all) 14 times over and still not cost as much as an OE xenon swap.

Even if you get away with it for $500 which I doubt is possible, I can go through 5 ddm kits before I break even with your swap.

Tschuss_Bill

I won't buy factory projectors, I'll by E55 replicas. You can get Philips bulbs for under $100 per pair. See my reference in the original post.

I don't think the projector math is the same. Why would it be? The bulbs are not configured the same, dimensions etc. You don't need a factory harness to make the conversion, but it is easiest to get the ballasts along with an aftermarket (~$30) bixenon harness setup. I've done a couple conversions, have yet to my w211. If you want it be as good as factory (or even better) in terms of light dispersion and cutoff, throwing HID bulbs in halogen projectors ain't going to do it. But it may be good enough for you. Cheers.

jcat

please see my post (in here somewhere) with the cutoff lines with a pnp kit and the factory halogen projectors. Go ahead and take a similar pic (anyone, please) of factory xenon projectors. I guarantee they're no different to the naked eye. Should they be different? Sure, you'd think so. Am I missing something? Maybe. But the difference (which I've seen with my own experienced eyes) is unintelligible.

The intent of my post wasn't to **** on you and your opinion, it's just not productive to make it seem as though a pnp kit is a waste of time or in any way not equivalent to factory HID. The ONLY difference I've recognized is the dynamic function which cannot be retrofitted (as far as I know) onto a halogen housing.

Tschuss_Bill

jcat

Clearly there is a difference of opinion here, that's ok. It gives folks more to chew on in making their own decision. To clarify, for ~$100 you get low beams only(?) and high beams(?), and no bi-xenon, right?

To get bi-xenon function and the added benefit of proper (or factory like) voltage and controls to the ballasts (relays, harness etc), one would need to spend a bit more money and commit considerably more time in the conversion. Is that fair?

I don’t have a comparison of the halogen projector to the hella evox-r. I would suspect the spotty light dipersion that I see in my current halogen set up will improve. Here is a single shot that someone posted of the hella evox-r projector, FYI

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...voxrcutoff.jpg

bernard farquar

I just got a set of HID bulbs and ballasts from ebay seller "hidny" who was selling the kits as "error free" and not needing the addition of a capacitor.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261044935569...ht_5679wt_1194

I seem to have gotten one bad ballast, and so at the moment I have one HID and one halogen bulb, as I wait for a response to my issue from the seller. I have been comparing the two sides, and they appear to have identical cutoff points, the right side has the same pattern wedge of light.


I fail to see the down side of converting the halogen projector housings to hid instead of the much more involved process described above. I am aware that the hid bulbs and the original H7 bulbs have a differing focal point, but this does not seem to be an issue in the projector housings, as it often is in a standard reflector housing.

I forgot to take pictures of the beam patterns, but will do so tonight, you can easily segregate the two beams by use of a leather jacket on the front of the car.

On a separate note, the "error free" plug and play ballasts seem to be what the seller claims, as the one that works did so without an additional capacitor, and was a simple ten minute swap.

jcat

I paid $108 (not including shipping) for headlamps AND fog lamps with error elminator harnesses, or $54 each. No bi-xenon, because the factory headlamps are not Hi/Lo, there's no need.

I can't say your next statement is fair. Given the error cancelling harnesses, the fact that these kits run on the power provided by the factory systems (halogen runs differently than OEM HID), the only benefit to your setup that I see is the bi-xenon. You're not even adding the benefit of adaptive beams at that point. As for controls I'm not sure what you mean, but there's no difference in operation from halogen to one of these kits that I've used. To get the bi-xenon functionality (which renders your factory high beam useless by the way) and dynamic adaptive headlamps, yes, one would have to spend a LOT more money.

While that picture of the Hella evox-r projector is impressive, I honestly don't see THAT much of a difference in the cutoff there compared to my halogen projectors. I'll try and get a better picture but with only an iPhone 4S to do so I'm not sure it'd be accurate. As the member above me said, the same point to which I can't stress enough, there's NO intelligible difference between OEM HID and Halogen projectors. I've even had my car parked next to another w211 with factory HID and you literally cannot tell who's car is factory and who's is aftermarket PnP, until I turn on the fogs of course because his are stock.

It's your car, if you'd like to spend a fortune to accomplish the same goal with mere percentage points difference in the cutoff line vs. the projector that's already on the car, by all means go for it. I, along with many others on here, would prefer to save that kind of money for more noticeable modifications, or just simply to be able to do more things to the car. You can spend $500 to get your projector retro and all that done, I'd rather spend $120 on my headlamps, another $150 on lowering links and put the remaining $230 toward tinting my windows or a new set of wheels.

jcat

For the record, and I'll disclaim this by saying I don't have real experience with them, I don't trust any of the ebay sellers that say their ballasts are error free. To produce can-bus compatible HID ballasts for that low of a cost just seems to me that even if they are error-free as they advertise, I doubt they'll last long due to the corners they inevitably had to cut to keep costs down.

For a mere $15 added onto a DDM kit, the error eliminator harnesses make the BCM and Ballasts/bulbs happy, and I know that DDM's stuff lasts.

bernard farquar

I received my replacement ballast from the Ebay seller (hidny), and now have both lights hooked up and working. One light the second day wouldnt come on until I turned the lights on and off two or three times, but that has been the only issue. I am confused, if the error eliminator is a "mere $15" to add, why is it inconceivable that it can be added to the internals of a ballast without "cutting corners to keep costs down"? I paid 85.00 for the set, which is actually a little bit higher price than the sets that do not mention being error free. Those seem to be available for 55-65 dollars.

So far so good, I will let you know how it ages.

OEMPlusW211

I think it is trial and error. I bought "cheap" ones as I have had them on other cars for 3+years with no problems and on my Benz they seem to work fine. I always look for the slim ballast with error eliminators and that say digital ballasts...I don't know if they really are all of these things but they always seem to work for me. Knock on wood

mhass350

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tschuss_Bill

Do it the right way, use non-modified base bulbs in a projector designed for HID. You'll have a bixenon setup. Suggest retrofit resource for all of this stuff. On W211 the projector swap is a bolt in project, no dremmeling required. If a hundred bucks is all you got towards this car, go for it. I'd spend a little more and do it right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcat

the ONLY difference between xenon and non-xenon projectors in the w211 as far as I can tell is the bulb base. You're saving yourself a TON of money and time by not swapping projectors over. Don't forget, you'd also have to get the appropriate factory harnesses and ballasts to connect up to your car's headlamp harnesses. It's not as simple as you're making it seem.

DDM sells error eliminators (version 3) by the pair. You need one error eliminator per light, or one pair per set.

I did my heads and fogs for $108 all together. Even with cutting the spring steel baskets and putting holes in the dust caps to run the wires out I've driven over potholes and rough roads, for about 4 months now since I installed them with not even so much as a flicker. Everything is still exactly where I left it and is running perfect.

I'd rather not purchase a set of OE xenon projectors (you'd likely have to buy the xenon headlamp assemblies at ~800 used or more), then if they didn't come with it, source the OE ballasts, intermediate harness from the body harness to the ballasts, then source OE or aftermarket D2R or D2S (don't recall what the w211 uses) bulbs. Even philips D2R bulbs at autozone are ~$120 a piece.

Will it look "more factory"? Yes. Will it be more reliable? I don't think you could say definitively yes.

When you look at the cost of it all, you're likely going to drop about $1500 all said and done. That means my DDM kit can catastrophically fail (bulbs, ballasts, error eliminators and all) 14 times over and still not cost as much as an OE xenon swap.

Even if you get away with it for $500 which I doubt is possible, I can go through 5 ddm kits before I break even with your swap.

Thanks for the advice, info, and input guys.

I have to say though, I was never really concerned with having a bi-xenon setup (I can't remember the last time I even used my hi-beams). I just wanted brighter, whiter light and for my low's/fogs to match in color/temperature output. And, if I could achieve that for $100 great, if it cost $500, that would have been fine too. In hindsight I could have held out until I found an e350 with P2 --oh well, lesson learned.

I purchased the DDM kit with error eliminators. Total was just under $110. They arrived from China weeks later and the box was in bad shape. Everything inside seems to be in order though.

Now for the potentially "unsettling" news. I've gone to a few shops in my local area in the past few weeks for estimates on having my replica e63 bumper painted and installed. While this was happening I wanted my HiDs (lows & fogs) installed too --no point for me to go in there, make a nice fitment only to have it get in the way-- so I brought them with me. I was told by a majority of the shops (including a Audi/BMW/Mercedes Performance Shop) that the lights I received from DDM are no different than the cheap eBay versions.

I wrote this off as the shops wanting to make more money as the performance shops mentioned doing an OEM HID retrofit instead --one guy even took the time to show me the retro fit he did on an e36 M3. He mentioned doing a retro would more than double the current estimate of $850 (painting & installing bumper and DDM HiDs). Truth or not it still plants that seed of doubt.

I've decided to use DDM kit and hope for no problems. And, should I have any I am banking on DDM providing pretty decent customer service and certainly better than what I would expect to receive from one of the fly-by-night eBay companies.

And, using jcat's logic (which I agree with) I can do this a few times over and still be ahead financially. I'd rather take that $800-$900 and get a matching AMG rear bumper instead of OEM HiDs... but thats juts me

I'll be sure to post pics to this thread when this gets done in late-September.

Tschuss_Bill

I agree. If the bixenon part is not important to you, go the DDM route. As for your math there is no $800-$900 difference. It's about $300-$350 difference plus considerably more effort to do the projector retrofit.

mhass350

I guess I could clarify....

The $800 difference was in the quote from the shop. The estimate for bumper paint/install was $650-$800 (depending on fitment). The DDM HiD install was $100-$125.
If I went with the OEM retrofit that HiD install piece jumped to $850-$1000 because of 1) higher cost for parts and 2) extra effort to install ---both of which you have mentioned.

So, for me its a matter of $750-$925 or $1500-$1800.

vbnBbnNAng

Greetings everyone, this is my first post and its regarding Hid kit conversion I tried on my 2008 E350. After installation they seemed bright as they did on my other car with same kit. This is day time/afternoon.
During test drive at night they were embarrassingly dim. No projection power.

Has anyone had dim/weak Hid bulbs after installing an Hid kits?

About the Hid kit:
They are 100W with cancelers for this E350.
I have used the same 100w kit on my other cars for the past few years and no issues. Of course my other cars have the same projection style headlights like you find on 08 E350.

If anyone has used an Hid kit on this application please let me know if you have had any issues alike these.

Thanks in advance,
Ray

Tschuss_Bill

100W does not sound right. Stock is 35W and optional is 50W. 50W is less reliable than 35W. But if both headlights are exhibiting same output, you may have another problem.

vbnBbnNAng

Hello Bill, Yes 100 watts is what I've been using.

You can find them at HID Geeks.

Tschuss_Bill

I don't want them. Suggest you call the geeks to resolve or wait until the 150W version is out. I hear those are really bright!

harshybar

What temp are you using BNA?

vbnBbnNAng

I favor the 6000k and that's what I've been using. They are blueish at the start but once they warm up they become whiter and project good lighting even during rain. I've been using this set up on my Mazda 3 since I bought it new in 09.

I am debating should I go with the Halogen Philips Diamond vision for the E350 and be done with it.

I will try to research couple of other areas before I make the call.

vbnBbnNAng

I didn't really mean for you to buy them. Just a reference and to show they are available if someone on this Forum likes to give them a try. I've seen the 150w in South America and boy they are blinding.

One thing about Hid Geeks, There replay timing/customer service is not good in responding. I had to email them couple of times before I could get them to reply. Since I know the bulb applications and once installed everything has always worked, I never had to contact them except this time with E350 dim lightning problem.

vbnBbnNAng

Over this past weekend I spent some time trying to figure out how to solve the Hid dim lighting problem on my 08 E350 using 100W ballasts conversion kit.

I have come to realize that without an Hid wiring harness added to the kit I am using my problem will not be solved. I contacted DDM Tuning and the another place in GA where there kits costing $150 and both companies were offering hid wiring harness for +35W applications. They both of course advised to stay with 35W for my car app.


Hid wiring harness (suppose to) provide/regulate more power directly from battery to headlight system. On 08 E350 the battery is in the trunk.

Knowing this and before ordering anything from online I visited a local automotive custom shop borrowing a hid wiring harness for fitment and visual testing (hood wide open) and it became clear that:

Only power supply I found in engine compartment was at main power supply going into fuse box near windshield on driver side. Negative or ground is not problem but you also have to map the rest of the hid wiring harness to each head light. This will look very tacky even if the wiring is long enough to where you can run it in fender or around radiator support.

That was very helpful and Now my option if I want to use the current hid kit is to down grade to 35W ballasts. I already have the canceler so it will be strait forward plug and play.

Conclusion: For late model Mercedes, stick with 35W ballasts.

PewterGreyBenz

ummm, thanks for the info, I have always wondered where the power supply comes from, ground of course is no big deal, but a power source , hummmmm. you take pic?

vbnBbnNAng

Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures, I wish I had.
However I have a pic of wiring harness that illustrates where exactly each end of the harness connects to.

I will also attach a second pic showing the engine comp fuse also called Relay box on Driver side/windshield area. In this pic pay attention to the far right of the fuse box and you should see a nut. This is the nut holding down a positive cable (red) powering the fuse/relay box and this is the point I found for connecting the hid "C" harness.

On 2008 E350 this fuse box is hidden under a black cover that can be removed very easily.

I personally will not use (or recommend) this power supply connection in the fuse/relay box for any AUX/after market electronics.

Nero Tenebre

I bought a couple DDM Tuning HID kits years ago, I heard they were buying in bulk from China and reselling from California. They all had problems and when I tried to call in the "lifetime warranty" I was put through a gauntlet of troubleshooting steps before they would let me return them with an RMA number. I tried endlessly to trouble shoot them, testing their voltage, switching the bulbs from left to right, tried the bulbs on different ballasts, etc. and could not figure out their mystery problems. It was a hassle to remove them and I bought them for family members so I never heard the end of complaining about how their lights wouldn't come on. I ended up throwing their ****ty kits in the trash and going back to stock halogens for them. By comparison, I paid $400 for my McCulloch HID kit on my NSX-- and not a single problem for the past 6 years. IMO, you pay for what you get in HID kits. You can just google DDM Tuning problems and see what comes up.

vbnBbnNAng

Hello Nero,

I might end up like you if the 35W ballasts don't do the trick.
I paid $45 for cancelers, Slim 100W Ballasts (Which are the problem). The bulbs were from old order. These are not from DDM Tuning.

If the access to the headlight bulbs were easier I could have cared less.

When I get it up & working I will take some pics and post them.