akbro93704

Our 2006 E350 has about 16,000 miles on it. We've had nothing but trouble with the brakes! At around 8,000 miles, we noticed that the steering wheel would shake when the brakes were applied. We took the car in, they said that the rotors had warped, and that there were heat marks on the rotors from overheating. The service manager at our dealer blamed it on my moms driving(its her car) that she must "ride" the brakes or be driving in mountainous areas alot. First of all, in 8k miles, the brakes should not be warped, and second of all, my mom doesn't drive any different than any other person,does not ride the brakes, and we do not live in moutainous areas. She has had many other cars(Mercedes) and never had this problem before. We went to hell and back with the dealer and they finally but reluctantly agreed to have the rotors covered under warranty.

So slowly but surely, the steering shake starting coming back again. The second time, we took the car in, it had about 13k miles on it. They replaced some kind of steering/suspension bushing and that stopped the steering shake.

Now, at 16k miles, theres no steering shake, but the whole car pulses back and forth as the car is coming to a stop. Obviously, the rotors had warped again. We took the car in last Wednesday, and finally got a call today from our Service advisor that ALL 4 rotors had warped once again and have heat marks on them. He talked to the service manager and said that the rotors will NOT be covered under warranty this time. I understand that brake related items are not usually warrantied, but having eight rotors warped in 16k miles cannot be something normal!! We are sick of the dealer blaming our driving when it has nothing to do with it. These cars should be made to withstand stopping in normal city driving which this car 90% of the time does, nonetheless slowing down from Autobahn speeds So is there something really wrong with this car? And has anyone else had warping problems with their W211's and what was the dealers response? thanks for reading.

seahonu

Could there be something wrong with the SBC? From what I understand, the SBC pre-pressures the brake system. Now what if the SBC is malfunctioning and over pressuring the system, ie. like someone is riding on the brakes...

cyclerider

If you do a search for "SBC" you will find lots of reading material. Short pad life and warped rotors are common.

loudbmw

May be far out on this one - I always drive my car for at least a couple of blocks after washing on my driveway to dry the brakes/rotors. If you put the car away right after a wash with the brakes wet, you can get corrosion which feels like warped rotors. It will go away over time.

tlbeedy

It's also a very good idea not to wash the car immediately after driving it as the extreme cold water on the rotors can also warp them. I always wash my car in my driveway, but prior to washing I feel the rotors to assure they are somewhat cool. Just something my good-ol-dad always said.

NCE500

Unless someone is sneaking out at night with your car and doing high speed bonzai runs while you are sleeping, and overheating the brakes, it sounds like there is something fundamentally wrong with your car.

If you look at the number of posts about brakes, there havn't been all that many, certainly not with the later model years, aside from folks with higher miles replacing them, as the 211 brakes are pretty darn good out of the box IMHO.

If I were you, I would try a different dealer and determine what the real problem is.

KosherBenz

33K miles. Original pads and rotors.

no problems here. Best of luck to you.

glojo

I would very politely suggest there is something wrong weith your specific car, or your driving. I have no idea if your vehicle has SBC, but that is a red herring anyway. Do a search for your specific problem and then decide for yourself if it is a design fault.

Overhere we have 211's used as emergency rsponse vehicles, they are kept for three years, or 300,000 miles. Each of these miles is usually very hard earnt and the vehicles only have routine main dealer servicing (a requirement) These vehicles are extremely reliable and certainly do not suffer from the problems your describing..

If when both the discs and pads get replaced the vibration goes away, then is it the car?

Good luck resolving the issue.

Regards
John

Sunny Torquay

sosh

Happened twice?? I would think that this is operator error. Someone is on the brakes much too much and causing an overheat situation. You or your mom??

akbro93704

I rarely ever drive her car and when I do I'm always easy on the brakes....and I drive with my mom in the car all the time and she's not hard on the brakes at all...very normal driver. Plus she rarely ever goes on the freeway so no high speed braking. I dont know...the dealer replaced them but would not budge with not covering them...which I guess is understable...and they charged a nice 1,100 dollars...for 4 rotors AND pads. But if they warp again...we'll know theres definitely something inherently wrong with the braking system. Because warping in so few miles is rather unheard of.

vettdvr

I have actually watch someone drive with foot on the brake and gas . Just imagine what that does to pads and rotors.

Wore out both pads and rotors on a NEW vehicle at 20,000 miles. So driving habits do have a part even if the car doesn't get on the highway.

Musikmann

X2. Not all dealers are alike, some are good, some bad, and some mediocre. There has got to be something wrong somewhere, and you are probably taking the car to where you bought it, correct? They are the ones who should be trying their best to solve your problem and make you happy but they are evidently not.

Also, Mercedes has tightened the purse strings on warranty repairs and replacements because of their sorry state of financial affairs, and it is now harder than it used to be for the dealers to get paid for certain warranty repairs.

You might have to push your dealer to contact the MB regional rep about this. I don't think this is severe enough to warrant a buy-back or to give you a new car, but I would politely suggest this avenue to your service manager, or to the dealership owner if he refuses. I know this is a big hassle, but it might have to happen.

glojo

I wish you luck but don't follow the logic. Would the dealer also be correct to say that if they do it again it is definitely down to what the driver is doing?

I am NOT passing judgement, I am NOT saying it is anyone's driving style, I am simply trying to understand your point.

Something is clearly causing this problem and if it is all four discs then what about using a rolling road to see if any brakes are misbehaving?

You will need proof the brakes are faulty and getting it might not be easy?

Good luck
John

sosh

I am willing to bet that there is nothing wrong with the car. Perhaps your idea of easy on the brakes is incorrect. Maybe you or your mom is riding the brakes, braking with the left foot, coming to panic stops frequently. If it was the ESP or ABS the problem would be on only one or 2 wheels. If it was the SBC to the extent that you are talking about you would notice a very reduced fuel mileage and would smell the brakes burning. In addition, even if it is you it only takes a little abuse to warp a rotor. One overheat could do it. I do not blame the dealer for not covering the problem as the likely and most probable cause is the driver(s). On my E I have never had a pad change or warped rotor to date and I happen to really like the SBC system.

harkgar

I find the SBC system hard to get used to. The braking power is excellent but there is little or no feel in braking. The brake pedal feels dead like stepping on a block of wood.

I would agree that the rotar fault is likely to be driver creatured. The worse way to drive is using 2 legs instead of one. You can brake and accelerate at the same time like doing a burnt out.

UK Texan

Hi,

I wonder if I can make my first post on this forum a little helpful. As an old-timer who has just purchased his first Mercedes, I have a lot to learn about the brand, but I have spent many long days trying to get my Caddy SLS to stop the shakes.

Rotors is a word that I haven't quite got used to yet. LOL, nor the word gotten.

During my reading up on this, a guy that used to be involved in the production of the Ford GT40 in the 60's, put forward a long technical ‘paper' saying that most times the disc was NOT distorted, but the surface had patches of material imbedded into the metal. This would cause the varying ‘gription'. One of the chief causal factors was sitting at the lights etc., with the brakes hard on. Certainly, in aircraft, the crew take off the parking brake the second they get the Chocks In signal. Not doing so, causes the discs to be patched with the same type of black areas.

I changed the Caddy discs to another brand, and from that time crept very slightly every time I was stopped with hot discs. No further problems.

I have very strong opinion as to why discs simply can not be skimmed with a cutting tool. Such a process is not the answer...ever.

I have to say that when I get fed a load of BS from a dealer-- such as a genteel lady wrecking a set of 150 mph rotors -- it makes me want to hang onto their pants like a terrier with rabies.

Seeking independent opinion from an engineering shop would be something to arm yourself with when you go back to the dealer. They should take a reference from the inner surface that faces to the hub by cleaning it then putting that surface to the jaws of a lathe chuck. Then they measure the disc very accurately.

It is vital that they also measure the thickness of the metal at 10 - 20 places.

You have to go prepared when you want to win. Good luck.

wolffox

I own a 2005 E320 CDI. After about 5,000 miles, my steering wheel and brake pedal began to shimmy after applying the brakes. The dealer replaced the rotors and indicated the driver's side rotor was out of tolerance. At about 15,000 miles, only the steering wheel began to shimmy again after applying the brakes. The dealer replaced the 2 hollow rubber bushing suspension arms with 2 solid rubber bushing suspension arms. The suspension felt much firmer after replacing the suspension arms. The dealer also reprogrammed the braking system because of a recall. At 25,000 miles, the steering wheel is again beginning to shimmy after applying the brakes. The brake pedal does not shimmy, however, it does feel like the brakes are going on and off during braking. The car is fantastic except for the steering wheel shimmy during braking. I just had my CDI into the dealer and the technician informed me that the front brake pads had caused a spot on each rotor (I had left the vehicle parked in the garage for 7 days in January and again in February. Apparently, I won't be able to take another winter vacation). This resulted in the vehicle giving the sensation of applying and releasing the brake pedal while the brake pedal was consistently being applied. The technician also stated that the rotors were not out of round, however, he identified the problem as disc thickness variation (DTV). Regardless of what it is called, both rotors and pads need to be replaced. The front brake pads have about 10% remaining and the rear brakes are not far behind. The technician suggested that I drive on a lone stretch of highway and apply the brakes one or two times without locking up the wheels (repeat on several different occasions). This might remove the shiny spots on the rotors and if it doesn't improve the braking shimmy, nothing has been lost. I did some research on the EBC website under their question and answer section. I found the referral to DTV. I do not want to replace the rotors with MB parts for a third time and this time at my expense and potentially have the same problem occur again. I am considering the EBC drilled and slotted rotors and red ceramic brake pads on all four wheels. I can't put the red ceramic pads on the front and leave the MB pads on the rear because the braking action is not similar. The dealership will install them for $600 and the rotors and pads will cost approximately $700. I understand your dilemma and strongly believe the brake system is defective.

UK Texan

What I was trying to say was that the fault has to be defined before you can argue. This is sometimes very hard to do.

I very much doubt that hard use of the brakes will help, the whole point is that when the patch starts, it builds up from there on.



I seem to remember that this guy said not even to use wet & dry emery paper...the bits get into the metal. He sanded the patches off with some other paper that I can't remember. I have searched for the posting but can't find it yet. Not much help I know.

I had the privilege to be able to drive high-performance cars on winding British roads – late at night–at a time when there was not much traffic and no cameras. The discs were so hot when I got home that I wouldn't put the car in the garage. Never, ever, did I have this kind of problem. Things are supposed to have got better...haven't they?

sosh

You are incorrect about aircraft brakes, many air carriers in their ops manual require that the brakes be set at the ramp even with the chocks. Unless a brake overheat warning is lit the brakes will certainly be cool enough to set the parking brake at the ramp. The cost of seeking an opinion from an engineering firm is rediculous as the cost of doing that will be far in excess of the cost of brakes.

frogstaple

It could be something simple like improperly tightened lug bolts. Dealer monkeys may use an air wrench to install your wheels after servicing your perfectly good brakes.

UK Texan

The cost first. Well, at home in the UK I knew several folks that would do it for the price of a beer, and agree I have little idea of the true cost today...but, with a little care in picking the worst, only one disc would need to be done, and that should only take about 20 mins. What would be the cost of giving in, and paying for 4 new ones?

Airplane brakes...as I said, I'm an old timer, but you can trust me on the fact that it was true until the wide-body twins like 767 and 777 became the norm. Patching of the discs would totally confuse the (what was then) advanced ABS and cause serious vibration during braking.

Getting back to the car. If a part of one disc grabs but not the other, the resultant shake is obvious...imagine how bad it will get if the good grip part of a disc is 180 degrees out of phase with the one on the other side of the car. Come to think of it, this is what gave me the clue on the Caddy. One moment it would be okay(ish) then I would make a few turns and it would be bad...as they became out of phase. A few more turns and it would improve. It took a while for the light bulb to come on over my head.

I did have the discs skimmed as a matter of urgency. They were done on a Hunter machine and I have to say that they gave a distinct sound of not being true as they were cut, but this may have been build up. The stuff that was being cut off was very black, and certainly very hard. They were then torqued up very carefully, as it was said on the forums that not following the normal sequence, and/or over torquing could cause them to warp. I found that very difficult to believe, but I followed the rules because it's good engineering. A few days later I threw the discs away and got Raybestos.

I'll also admit that it's annoying for others if you let the car creep at the lights etc., but I guess just a little would do the trick.

akbro93704

wow!! Youve had quite a problem too. Nearly the same that we had, although the dealer didnt say DTV was the problem with ours. There was a reason that MB got rid of the SBC brakes on the '07's and the warping/short pad life on these brakes probably has a lot to do with it....

Frank Wiesmann

I have discovered that the brakes on US-spec E-classes correspond to the size of the next lower model in Europe. For example, when I got new front rotors on my 2003 E500 Sport, the part number on the invoice read 2114210912. I took the time to look it up, and sure enough, these are the 312 mm rotors that European E320s were equipped with. The 330 mm rotors that European E500s had have the part number 2114211012. The current European E550 (E500 in Europe) is eqipped with 350 mm rotors in the front and 320 mm rotors in the rear, European E350s have 330 mm rotors in front. By contrast, US E320s and E350s have the rotors that 4-cylinder models in Europe have. This may be the reason why US customers have more problems with rotor life.

cyclerider

Our USA speed limits are so low that we don't need better brakes. Most of our cars are governed to 130 mph. The fast Mercs have the good brakes.

TTopJohn

This is a can of worms I'm opening here, but in my experience warped rotors, or rotors that feel like they are warped because of uneven pad material transfer/deposits on the rotors, can be caused by using the brakes to gingerly. That easy driving, with no hard stops that the E350 in question is getting, means the pads never get heated up enough to transfer a good even layer of friction material to the rotors. The uneven deposits created by this could lead to a warped rotor feeling.

Here's what I would do, given that you already replaced the pads & rotors - if the warped feeling comes back, before spending 1100 again, try bedding the brakes. Good instructions on bedding here http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm