CALBenzo

I'm finally almost at 5K miles, and am about to change my oil. According to this site below referencing the new standard for MB oil is 229.5.

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

which is 0W-40 European Car Formula (which I have never seen, but also haven't looked for in particular. Anyway, a while back I had purchased the 0W-30 Mobil 1 in ancitipation of changing the oil at about 4K miles, which I never got around to. As listed in the website above, the 0W-30 Mobil 1 is not a recommended oil. Unfortunately, I had purchased 12 quarts some time ago, and failed to return it at costco (just lazy).

My question is, is there any other differences between the Mobil 1 synthetic oil (US vs European), besides the viscosity? I can see MB recommending a wider viscosity weighting to cover all driving conditions. Here in the Bay Area, however, the temperature rarely exceeds 80-85 Deg F., and rarely drops below 40 Deg. F. Hence, would the 0-30 weighting be fine for these conditions (especially since it will only be this one time from 5,000-10,000 miles).

I posed this question a while back, but never got a straight answer.

Thanks!

guanabara

I would go to costco and return the oil and get the recommended 0W40.
I have seen it selling at Auto parts stores. May be even at Sam's club.

Your car is still almost brand new. MB still does its maintenance.
They use Mobil1 oil and the fleece filter, so they should know what is the best for it. It seems that you need to wait until the FSS system says at least 1000 miles life left before they will do the service for free though.

I found the following site for a well know auto parts store that sells the 0W40 european blend for M1.:
http://www.advanceautoparts.com/

guanabara

BTW, Steve
your TBN dropped from 8.45 to 4.0 in 6 months? That is quiet a drop. At that rate you probably had less than 3 months to reach your goal of 2.0.

I will try doing the same on my Amsoil for the next oil change and report it too.

Thanks

even if AMSOIL were to degrade as fast (which it doesn't from the same report you saw) I would still be way ahead as my starting TBN would be 12.2.
See that's what I am talking about on who makes the best oil for those who drive long distances.

Look at it this way. There are people who drive around the US for business or other reasons. They easily put 30,000 or more miles per year on their cars. Can you imagine doing 10 or so oil changes in a year? besides the cost, there is also the time lost incovenience. So if for some reasons they cannot do the oil for 10000 miles and their TBN drops below 2.0 what happens to their engine?
So for those cases AMSOIL is the only game in town that I know of.
For most of us who drive no more than 10,000 miles a year than Mobil1 is probably good enough, as long as the oil is changed at 5000 miles or 6 months interval.

I don't think that there is such a thing as an oil that fits all user needs. I decided to spend the extra bucks and be covered while following the FSS oil replacement period for the conveniences it provides.

As far as AMSOIL's european blend formulation I found it at the following site, (type european on the search window that comes up)
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/def...spx?zo=1265580

when the products are listed just click on any of the 4 listings and complete details on that blend will show up, I see that they call it 5W40 and its TBN starts from 12.2. I also see that it is API approved along with other things .
It also meets or exceeds MB 229.5 and other european latest standards.

guanabara

Steve,
one last thing, TBN is an important factor as it indicates the oil capacity of preventing corrosion in the engine parts, but another factor even more important is the prevention of wear by friction.

The test details are as follows:

Four Ball Wear (ASTM D-4172):

The Four Ball Wear Test determines the wear protection properties of a lubricant. Three metal ***** are clamped together and covered with the test lubricant, while a rotating fourth ball is pressed against them in sliding contact. This contact typically produces a wear scar, which is measured and recorded. The smaller the average wear scar, the better the wear protection provided by the lubricant.
The AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30 Motor Oil produced the smallest wear scar among 10 top brand lubricants. The next best oil produced 50% larger scar. The worst oils had more than twice scar sizes.

That is a good example of quality too for me.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Good reading.... Even if it's posted by an AMSOIL salesman.... We get these "commercials" on the Harley boards too..... Thanks for the informative posts, But I'll stick to the "free" Mobil 1 for as long as MB is giving it.

Mirage

no question guanabara, AMSOIL is the far superior Motor Oil on the market and has the edge on all of the competitors.After all they are the first co. to make synthetics, the rest just follow. As far as Mobil1 used in our beloved Mercedes' cars, the fact that they are changing the oil for free under FSS , I guess you can't beat that.I am an avid user of AMSOIL , have been since 1989,in all my cars with the exception of my E500. I will just let MB do the changes for now and when it s up , you can bet I will be using AMSOIL in it.
Mobil1 is just fine for now, and as far as they are concerned, no matter the car manufacturer, whatever they say the oil should be changed , that s when you should change it. There is really no "extended drain interval" with Mobil1, unlike AMSOIL , it can be used for up to 25000 miles or 1 year,with an oil filter replacement every 6 mos or 12500 miles. Now for us MB owners, I don't think that will go over to well.It s an oil change mentality that many have , geared to change every 3000 miles etc. now with MB,it s up to 10,000 miles, (AMSOIL saw the European extended oil change interval coming years ago)
Interestingly enough,Mercedes Benz had to settle an $32 million class action settlement sometime back in '03 because they failed to specify the use of synthetic motor oils with its FSS plan.Many motorists used conventional oils with the system and had experienced premature engine wear problems.The settlement required MB to cover repairs estimated at $20 million and supply 350,000 owners and lessees with vouchers for free synthetic oil changes.The MB FSS was included on nearly all MB models sold in the U.S. from 1998 to 2001.
So boys and girls ,make sure that at a minimum , you use a synthetic like Mobil1 or the best,AMSOIL in your Benz.


p.s. and they make a 0-30 grade as well

HELL ONA HARLEY

Steve... I'm going to be very interested to see your next oil test results. My hunch is the oil will be perfectly fine and would be good for more service than the FSS system allowed.

guanabara

You have a nice bike and car too.
congratulations.

for those concerned about the oil brands and formulations that meet the MB standards 229.3 and 229.5, I just had saw someone post the following interesting link:

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

enjoy it. Some of the oils listed are of european origin. Several AMSOIL oil formulations are listed there too.

p.s. gas prices on the east coast are about 10% cheaper but still quite higher than what they used to be not long ago. Makes me wonder how high they are going to get in the next 2 years.

SAguirre

My TBN was actually 4.5. At the time the oil was changed the car was actually 9 months old since the car was produced in March of 2004 and I changed the oil in December of 2004 with 5,100 miles on the clock. If you think about it, the oil held up quite well.

As per the starting TBN, I think that you are committing a fatal flaw if you are comparing the TBN or one oil viscosity to another. My oil is Mobil One "0 W 40,” Since I do tend to start my car when the outside temperature is around -5 F, I think that the "0" number is quite important for my use. I have a heated garage and I keep it at about 50 F, when I am out skiing up in the mountains however, my car does not rank high enough in the family to garage it.

I would be more interested in seeing the comparison charts that actually compared the Mobil One 0 W 40 to the AMSOIL equivalent. Just so that one can actually compare the proverbial 'apples to apples." Also, even if AMSOIL is as good as everyone thinks it is, you need to understand that the difference in lubrication characteristics would only truly make a difference if you ran your engine totally overheated or other extreme instances where the real problem is that there is a person behind the wheel who does not heath warnings or read idiot lights and messages. I know a few of those people . . .

I truly like how you have been communicating on this thread, but as "Hell on a Harley" said, you sure sound like an AMSOIL salesman. IF you are, then please tell me why this company does not have the marketing savvy to be accepted as OEM oil on mainstream car manufacturers or to place their oil on the shelf of automotive stores. I hate buying products from Amway-like organizations. It simply is not very practical.

I will keep on making oil tests whenever warranted and I still think that the end-difference between Mobil One 0 W 40 and an AMSOIL (of the same grade if it exists) is like splitting hairs. I personally don't drive more than 18,000 miles are year if you add my driving of both my cars, my bike and the cars my family has that I end up driving. So as stated before also, if I do end up switching to AMSOIL after the warranty is over, I doubt I would extend the interval past the 13k mile maximum allowed by the FSS under best circumstances. Also, at the last oil change, I had them use a felt filter.


Steve

SAguirre

That is what I also think. Lab results are great in eliminating the question of oil life and quality. Also, as the report showed, the oil lubrication quality was still fine, but there sure was a bunch of break in debris with a bunch of anti-wear additives added at the factory, which also tend to lower the TBN on some tests.

Steve

SAguirre

I would also suggest returning the oil to Costco. Prices have gone up and Costco will probably give you more money than you paid for it. Costco has a great return policy. I personally don't think that using 0 W 30 would not hurt anything, but why worry about it, just return the oil and buy the correct viscosity. If you get to it, I can totally relate to your dilemma.

Steve

guanabara

Each car company has to choose a certain manufacturer of oil, tires, etc. to put in their cars when they ship out and also for dealer maintenance.
That does not mean that the other brands they did not choose are worst than their "chosen" one. In most cases their choice takes into account several complex issues, such as of course, performance (is it good enough), price for volume purchase, business relationships, etc. The important thing is to check to see if the oil brand meets the latest specifications.

The link I provided before shows all oil brands and types that meet tghe 229.3 and 229.5 specs.

I will go ask my friend who posted that AMSOIL site to see if they have an "apples to apples" comparison as you suggested. That would be qute interesting, I guess. In the meantime I will get my oil analysed when I change it in the next few weeks and let you know the results.

Have a great and joyful journey,

Frank Wiesmann

My oil change interval is 15,000 miles according to the FSS computer of my 2003 E500. I drive about 6 miles to work, other than that occassional freeway driving, some of it in traffic jams. Does anyone else get so much mileage out of their oil? When I got the car, I had it changed at 1000, 5000 and 11,000 miles (B service).

guanabara

You are probably covered by the free oil change service for the first 4 years.
If the oil being used is Mobil 1 I would try getting the dealer to have that changed within their free program at intervals of no more than 10000 miles.
Given the number of miles you seem to be putting on the car, another thing that may be of concern is the oil longevity due to evaporation and also the oil filter life. All good european car mechanics I have been to, have told me to get at least the filter replaced each 5000 miles. If your filter is the fleece element type then you should be fine to wait for the 10000 miles period or earlier based on the FSS indications.

If you stay with the 15000 miles cycle then keep on checking the following at regular intervals:
1. Park on a level surface. Take out the dipstick and make sure that oil is between the min and max levels.
2. Open the oil inlet cover on the top right hand side of the engine when facing the car front. It is a black color cap. A bit difficult to unscrew sometimes. You may need a rag to get a good grip on it. When you get it openned , make sure that you don't see a light brown thick foaming deposit on it. If you see then that oil needs to be replaced soon.
3. Find out what is the oil they are using at the dealer. It better be at least Mobil 1 extended service type. That is the only oil the manufacturer guarantees for 15000 miles. If they are using the Supersyn oil and not the extended service type then it may not even be guaranteed to go up to 15000 miles. I have not seen many people putting more than 7000 miles on the supersyns and not get concerned. See below for some background data:

For some reason I think that 15000 miles may be an indication of an oil sensor failure, as the max I have seen people read besides myself has been no more than 12000 miles. Please ask about it at the dealer.

I never got to your situation, but I believe the FSS system will revert to a time based counter when you are getting close to 1 year without service. So eventually it will be counting down days until service, hopefully.


Background data :
http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d....ows_amsoil.htm

SAguirre

At the rate I am going, the FSS want to get 14k out of the oil. Of course, I had it changed once and that added almost 1,000 miles to the service interval. Mercedes will still pay for your oil change if you have 2,000 miles left on the oil. What I am trying to say here is that if you change the oil and don't reset the FSS computer (which in your cases at 1k and 5k you should not have), you will gain oil life because the sensors are working correctly and see that your oil is still good. The standard FSS interval starts at 13,000 miles. Since you changed the oil twice already, it makes sense that you gained almost 2,000 miles and you would be close to 15,000 miles of oil life. The system is not bad and it knows what it is doing. However, I would always get it changed when there is 2k miles left on it. This would give you 13K, which is the standard interval on a FSS car. The 2005 models have a fixed 10k interval, but don't have all the sensors (that is what I was told).

Also, guanabara, the W211s don't have an oil dipstick anymore, the tube is there, but there is not stick. The computer will check it for you and tell you on the MFD if you are over or under the recommended amount of oil. If you go into the service menu, then you can get the exact oil amount to a tenth of a quart.

Steve

guanabara

This is what I have been able to get for the Amsoil European formulation oil so far (virtually the same performance as the 10W30 extended interval oil the other reference had).

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 European Engine Oil


AFL

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 14.5
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 83.6
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 182
Viscosity CCS, cP @ °C (ASTM D-5293) 5241 (-0)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) 232 (449)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) 246 (474)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97) -51 (-59)
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) 5.5 (lower by many percent points than an oil brand made by anyone in the world today)

Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172B @ 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hr), Scar, mm 0.35 (at least 40% less than anything you can get a hold off at the stores/dealers)

Total Base Number 12.2 (same as for the other Amsoil data posted earlier) Do you know what is the starting TBN for the oil you are using that is compatible to this? There is nothing else known out there that exceeds 9)
HTHS (cP) (ASTM D-4683) 4.2


Are the points above relevant for everybody?
not necessarily, if you are still within the "free" maintenance period you may want to stick with it, but just don't go over 10000 miles or 1 year without an oil change. Make sure that they are using the new Mobil extended service oil and also fleece element filter.
If you are the kind of driver that puts a lot of miles on your car and want to be able to go for 25000 miles or 1 year with no oil changes, but just the filter replacement (each 5000 miles (paper element) or 10000 miles (fleece element)), then there is only one oil brand out there that guarantees its oil performance that far, even up to 35000 miles for their extended service blend..

SAguirre

As usual for AMSOIL, the numbers look impressive. But I see that they don't have what MB recommends: 0 W 40. Since you have not yet found it, I guess they don't have it. As I stated before, I like 0 w 40 since it makes a lot of sense for me in the winter.

You are not telling us to violate the manufacturer’s recommendations? Are you?

Steve

guanabara

Of course Steve, I would not do that.
you just need to read their list of recommended oil in the link below that meets the latest specs 229.5. Surprisingly enough there is only one oil blend that is "rated" 0W40 for the extended service period. Read your car manual and tell me where you see it say that only 0W40 shall be used? The technical data link, I posted for you before is for the Amsoil oil blend listed in the approved oils list below (Amsoil Synthetic 5W-40 European Engine Oil (USA)).
I find it hard that you are driving your car in a place that a 5W40 oil would not do the job a 0W40 oil does, but if you are please drive safe and use snow/ice tires.

Have a great day. out to enjoy life now.


taken from: http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

MB sheet 229.3 approved oils
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain interval indicator FSS up to 20,000 km, or 40,000 km - 25,000 mi, min. 1.0% fuel saving compared to 229.1, based on ACEA A3 B3. For gas engine of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with Euro 4 diesel particle filters).

AGIP EXTRA HTS 5W-40
AGIP Synthetic PC 0W-40
AGIP Eurosport 0W-40
Amsoil 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
Amsoil 10W-30 Synthetic
Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel (It says Diesel but can also be used in gasoline cars)
Aral HighTronic 5W-40
Aral SuperSynth 0W-40
Aral Super Tronic 0W-40
Aviasynth 0W-40
Castrol DCO TOPUP SAE 0W-30
Castrol Formula RS Road and Track 5W-40
Castrol GTX7 DYNATEC 5W-40
Castrol Formula SLX 0W-30
Castrol TXT SOFTEC PLUS 5W-30
CIFAB Synthoil Hydrocrack HC7 5W-40
Elf Excellium LDX SAE 5W-40
Esso Ultron 0W-30 (fuel economy)
Esso Ultron 5W-40
Fuchs Silkolene Pro S 5W-40 - 100% Synthetic Oil For All Race Engines
Fuchs Silkolene Pro S 10W-50 - 100% Synthetic Oil For All Race Engines
Fuchs Titan SuperSyn SL 0W-30
Havoline Synthetic DS 0W-30
Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic 5W-40
Liqui Moly Diesel Synthoil 5W-40
Liqui Moly High Tech 5W-40
Liqui Moly HC7 5W-40
LUKOIL SYNTEETIK 5W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-40
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-50
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40
Mobil Synt S 5W-40
Mobil Synt S Turbo Diesel 5W-40
Mobil Syst S 5W-40
Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40
Pennzoil Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Pentosin Pentospeed 0W-30 VS
Quaker State Full Synthetic European Formulation 5W-40
Schaeffer Micron Moly 5W-30, 10W-40
Schaeffer Supreme 7000 5W-30, 10W-30, 20W-50
76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40
Shell Helix Plus S 5W-40 (Mercedes-Benz)
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40
Sunoco Synturo Gold 5W-40 (introduced January 2002)
Total FINA First 5W-40
Total Quartz 9000 5W-40
Valvoline DuraBlend MXL 5W-40
Valvoline SynPower MXL 0W-30
Valvoline SynPower 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40
Veedol POWERTRON 5W-30
Veedol SYNTRON 0W-30

MB sheet 229.31 approved oils; LA "low ash" Oils
This is a new spec pioneered by Mercedes for passenger cars with diesel engines with EURO 4 soot particle filters, e.g. W211 E200 CDI, E220 CDI. The spec was introduced 7/2003. They are called LA "low ash" oils, low on sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulphur to limit particle filter pollution. Oils high in e.g. ZDDP additive can not qualify.

Aral Tronic 229.31 5W-30
Castrol GTD Magnatec 5W-40 New
Fuchs Titan GT 1 5W-30 (zinc free)
Mobil SHC Formula LA 5W-30
BP Visco 5000 MB 5W-30
Castrol TXT Softec MB 5W-30

MB sheet 229.5 approved oils; "MB Longlife Service Oils"
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain intervals beyond 229.3 oils, to 30,000 km, min 1.8% fuel saving, first oils introduced summer 2002. For gas engines of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with Euro 4 diesel particle filters).
229.5 engine oils must be used with fleece oil filter designed for use with 229.5 engine oils.

AGIP Formula LL DC 5W-30 (I)
Amsoil Synthetic 5W-40 European Engine Oil (USA)
Aral SuperTronic M 5W-30 (D)
Castrol DCO TOPUP 0W-30 (D)
Elf Excellium 229.5 5W-30 (F)
FormulaShell Ultra AB 5W-30 (GB)
Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL MB 5W-30 (D)
Labo MB 229.5 5W-30 (F)
Liqui Moly Longtime High Tech 5W-30 (D)
Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 / Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 0W-40 (USA)
Mobil SHC Formula MB 5W-30 (USA)
Motorex Profil M-XL 5W-30 (CH)
OMV full syn MB 5W-30 (A)
Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30 (USA)
Premium Synthetik Motorenöl 5W-30 (DaimlerChrysler, D)
Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30 (USA)
Shell Helix Ultra AB 5W-30 (Mercedes-Benz) (GB)
Shell Helix Ultra DC 229.5 (GB)
Total Quartz 229.5 5W-30 (F)
Valvoline SynPower MB 5W-30 (NL)

Frank Wiesmann

[QUOTE=guanabara]
1. Park on a level surface. Take out the dipstick and make sure that oil is between the min and max levels.
2. Open the oil inlet cover on the top right hand side of the engine when facing the car front. It is a black color cap. A bit difficult to unscrew sometimes. You may need a rag to get a good grip on it. When you get it openned , make sure that you don't see a light brown thick foaming deposit on it. If you see then that oil needs to be replaced soon.
3. Find out what is the oil they are using at the dealer. It better be at least Mobil 1 extended service type. That is the only oil the manufacturer guarantees for 15000 miles. If they are using the Supersyn oil and not the extended service type then it may not even be guaranteed to go up to 15000 miles. I have not seen many people putting more than 7000 miles on the supersyns and not get concerned. See below for some background data:

For some reason I think that 15000 miles may be an indication of an oil sensor failure, as the max I have seen people read besides myself has been no more than 12000 miles. Please ask about it at the dealer.

Hello Guanabara,

to answer your questions:

-My oil level has been at 7.8 quarts for the last 6,000 miles since I found out how to check it in the menu.

-The oil cap does not show any abnormalities as far as I can tell

-The oil being used is Mobil 1 0W-40 as far as I know

Mirage

Corporate Website


Just some more info on the extended drain intervals and the differences between XOM and AMSOIL...
Enjoy


ExxonMobil Follows AMSOIL into Extended Drain Market

Motor oil technology has gradually progressed since the days of the earliest automobiles. In those days, standard motor oil drain intervals were between 500 and 1000 miles, and motorists had to switch viscosity grades with the changing of the seasons. The development of oil filtration and additive technology in the 1930s allowed drain intervals to increase to 2000 and later 3000 miles, while the development of viscosity modifiers in the 1940s allowed the formulation of multi-grade oils that could be used in both hot and cold temperatures.

When AMSOIL introduced the world’s first synthetic motor oil for internal combustion engines in 1972, it set all new standards for quality. Its premium synthetic base stocks were comprised of pure, uniform molecules not subject to the shortcomings of conventional motor oil, such as volatility and shear. Based on engine tests, drain intervals could be increased substantially, and AMSOIL recommended 25,000 mile/one year drain intervals. AMSOIL continues to be the leader in synthetic lubricant and extended drain technology, blending its oils with top-of-the-line synthetic base stocks and premium additive packages that provide optimum protection and performance and extended drain intervals.

ExxonMobil recently announced a new line of motor oils recommended for extended drain intervals.
It was only a matter of time before another company followed the path forged by AMSOIL over 30 years ago. Some motorists may recall that Mobil also followed AMSOIL into the synthetic motor oil business, introducing its synthetic motor oil several years after AMSOIL. The technology for extended oil drains is obviously available, but until now, the major oil companies have had other agendas. Marc Graham, who is president of Pennzoil-Quaker State-owned Jiffy Lube International, was quoted in a 2001 Lubricants World interview as saying, “At [PQS] we use a number internally that if we [shortened the drain interval] by 100 miles [for each car serviced], it would mean an additional $20 million in revenue for the company.� He also explained that “if we could move our customers to get one more oil change per year, it’s worth $294 million for the oil change alone and $441 million in revenue, when you include the ancillary products and services customers typically buy along with the oil change.�

Mobil backed off 25,000 mile oil change intervals in 1974.
Mobil briefly recommended 25,000 mile oil drains in the 1970’s. It’s not difficult to figure out who they were trying to compete with. AMSOIL was the only other company offering synthetic motor oils and recommended 25,000 mile drain intervals. However, it may be that because vehicle manufacturers weren’t yet comfortable with extended drain intervals, Mobil retracted its extended drain recommendations and simply recommended motorists follow the intervals specified in their vehicle’s owners manual. Of course, traditional oil change recommendations also allow Mobil and other motor oil companies to sell a lot more oil. Everyone wins but the customer.

AMSOIL stands apart from the competition.
AMSOIL has always formulated its products to be the absolute best, continually researching ways to make its already outstanding products even better. Other oil companies, however, are beholden to shareholders, and one could speculate that their incentive is to maximize profit. They formulate oils down to a price, rather than formulating them to be the best they can be. Then, they price their products to maximize profits. In addition, AMSOIL has 33 years of experience blending premium extended drain synthetic oils. That’s 33 years worth of proven performance in the field.

A close look at ExxonMobil’s new long drain motor oil line reveals that two are petroleum based, one is a synthetic blend and only one, Mobil 1 Extended Performance, is a full synthetic. The petroleum based products are recommended for 5000 mile drains, the synthetic blend for 7500 mile drains and Extended Performance for 15,000 mile drains. However, a look at the fine print reveals that ExxonMobil is still recommending drivers follow the oil drain recommendations listed in their owners manuals during the warranty period. AMSOIL synthetic motor oils are recommended for 25,000 mile or one year drain intervals in both new and older vehicles. The AMSOIL warranty stands behind this recommendation.

AMSOIL has recommended 25,000 mile/one year drain intervals since 1972.
AMSOIL delivers the highest quality lubricants on the market. It’s the AMSOIL identity, and it’s what customers expect. Al Amatuzio coined the phrase “extended drain interval,� and from the beginning, AMSOIL synthetic motor oils have been formulated for extended drain intervals.

Vehicle manufacturers are pushing for extended oil drain intervals.
Vehicle manufacturers in Europe have been recommending extended oil drains for years. In fact, the average drain interval in Europe is 10,000 miles. Vehicle manufacturers in the United States are definitely coming around to extended oil drains as well. Most owners manuals from recent model vehicles recommend 5000 to 7500 mile oil drain intervals. In addition, oil life monitors have become increasingly common on today’s vehicles, allowing and encouraging motorists to increase drain intervals up to 12,000 miles, even when using conventional oil. Vehicles equipped with an oil life monitor no longer recommend oil changes based solely on mileage. The system measures engine operational data such as temperature, revolutions and speed to determine when the oil is nearing the end of its life.

The motor oil industry is faced with the extended oil drain interval issue.
The success of oil life monitors has posed a threat to motor oil companies who insist oil must be changed every 3000 miles. It becomes increasingly difficult to maintain this position when vehicle manufacturers are recommending significantly longer intervals with the use of their oil monitoring systems. This is no doubt one of the reasons ExxonMobil finally introduced a line of long drain motor oils.

AMSOIL products are available for less.
The suggested retail price of the top oil in ExxonMobil’s new line, Mobil 1 Extended Performance, is $5.79 to $5.99 a quart. That’s right in line with AMSOIL 5W-30 and 10W-30, which retail for $5.95 a quart. By registering as an AMSOIL Preferred Customer, customers pay only $4.65 a quart, and even less when purchasing by the case.

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guanabara

That was a long history, but it does set the records straight.
I am glad to see that there are other happy and satisfied MB car owners bucking the trend.

I got some updates since my last postings here.
As I indicated before, I went ahead and did the oil change on my 2 cars (99 E320 , 99 C230 and 01 Pontiac Aztek) this past week.
2 of the cars had M1 and the 99 E320 had Amsoil 10W30 (25,000 miles rated). They all had about 6 months of oil use. I collected a sample for lab analysis on all 3 cars. I am mailing that in on 3/22. Results shall be coming online shortly.
While replacing the oil I installed all AMSOIL blends (european 5W40 for the MB cars and 5W30 for the Aztek) on each car. So 1 year from now I will do 2 lab analysis on the MB cars to see how that compares. Note that I will wait 6 more months on the AMSOIL oil when comparing to the M1 which was used for 6 months only. Why? It would be an overkill to drain the LONG life AMSOIL at 6 months mark.

Another interesting thing I would like to bring to your attention is that in all cases I drained the oil through the drain plug, after the engine had warmed up and allowed 5 sec of oil to drain first before taking a 3 oz sample.
An interesting thing that I noticed is that on the 99 E320, if you drive up on ramps, like those used for home car maintenance, the drain plug is not located on the lowest part of the oil tank. I pulled out my Topsider (oil sucking machine) , stuck its hose through the oil dipstick pipe and was able to remove an extra 8 oz of oil (a full large cup's worth). I was really surprised with that. The same did not happen for the 99 C230 because the drain plug is located on the lowest corner of the oil tank when you drive up a ramp. Maybe if you drive up only the left front wheel of the E2320 then you should be able to get most of the oil to drain naturally.
If anybody does oil change at home, you may want to look at those oil extractor machines. They do a great job and cause a lot less mess (I had to pressure wash a part of my driveway (after using absorbing material to remove the oil excess), as some oil spilled over the little drain collection tank I had)

I have seen a good fluid extractor for sale (58-20=38) on Boat US store flyer I received this week (It is valid from 03/24 to 04/03). their web site is westmarine.com or call 1-800-BOATING. Those oil extractors work just as well on car fluids extraction, except fuel of course for safety reasons. Proper care shall be exercised to avoid getting dirty on to the draining hoses and also to avoid mixing fluids if using it to drain something else besides engine oil. Use kitchen plastic bags to keep the used hoses clean and also to avoid having a mess with the oil that will invariably drip from the hoses after use.
Next week I should be able to report the oil analysis results and even offer the site links for your viewing pleasure.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Won't add to the "great oil debate", but that's good advise about the topsider oil extractor.... As soon as my 4 years of "free" maintenance is over I will definatly be in the market for one.

Mirage

AMSOIL recently completed its tests against the other oil Manufacturers and here are the results if anyone is interested...


https://www.amsoil.com/performancete...971/index.aspx

guanabara

The oil analysis for my 3 cars came out on 23 March.

here is a summary. For those who would be interested on the full summary please send a private message.

Car======oil used======Iron=Boron==Molybdenum=Visc100=NITR=TBN
99 E320==AMSOIL 5W30===5===86=====10=======10.20==1.0==11.8
99 C230==MOBIL1 0W40===11==135=====80======10.27==17.0==8.7
01 Aztek=MOBIL1 5W30===50===166====102======10.93==24.0==9.3

All the cars above had their oil changed about 6 months before the test was done. The lab indicated that the results were normal and that no corrective action was necessary at this time. All oils were indicated as good for continued use, but I was planning to change all to Amsoil for a future comparison, so I went ahead and changed the oil on all cars to start at exact the same tiime.

Note the major indicator of engine wear which is iron (WOW, double the wear with Mobil1 on MB engines?). Moly is also a good wear indicator, but Mobil1 chooses to use it as an "additive" so the comparison is not straight forward (I believe that the starting value for Moly is 60 on Mobil1 so that would equate to an adjusted value of 20 and 42 for the above last 2 cases).

I have no doubts on what to continue using from now on, based on scientific evidence.

Note the TBN value for Amsoil way higher than the Mobil1 oil. Note that it is ok down to 2.0 in general, but a higher starting and standing number after 6 months has a lot to say as to what oil will protect my engine parts against rust better.

all the cars above have had their oil changed to Amsoil european formula (5W40) (MB) or Amsoil 5W30 (Aztek) at this time. I will do the same test 1 year from now (no sense in wasting money changing the oil anytime sooner with Amsoil. I will definetely change the oil filter at 6 months intervals though)

A final note: (documented by photos of cruise computer displays)
My 01 Aztek average mileage (indicated on cruise computer) was 18.6 MPG on Mobil1 prior to oil change (total of 5600 miles or 6 months). It went up to 19.9 after replacing the oil with Amsoil 5W30. This is not added to brag about any oil quality as it is common sense to expect that a fresh oil with lower viscosity and more additives will be better for the mileage than an used oil. I have just done this test to debunk an online garage test site reported elsewhere on this thread, who posted that when they changed from Amsoil oil (with 14000 miles) to a fresh Mobil1 their test car mileage improved by 10%.
If with 5600 miles on the Mobil1 oil I got 7% better mileage when switching to a fresh Amsoil, then who knows how much better the savings would have been if I had waited another 8 months or 8,000 miles?

Voila, here is the truth. It might hurt some feelings. That was not the intention.

I am glad now that I will be able to go through the full manufacturer recommended mileage on the engine oil (10000 miles or 1 year) without worrying about doing any damage or causing any abnormal wear. In the process I will actually save a lot of time (and $$$) for the combined waiting time for all 3 cars oil change at the absurd 3 months or 3000 miles intervals many are still stuck with by virtual ignorance. In the process, I will be doing my part to reduce our dependency on middle east oil and reducing environmental polution.
I understand that Amsoil is made in the USA with US synthetic oil base materials.

guanabara

Hi folks,
back in April 05, I reported the results of the lab tests on the engine oil for my 2 1999 MB cars in one of the related threads.

This week I got the results of a follow on oil lab analysis conducted recently on the engine oil for the 1999 C230K. It was done after it had run 8+ months on the same oil. At this time I just replaced the oil filter. There was no need to top off the oil. I will continue using the same oil installed in Mar 05 until it reaches 12 months of use or the FSS flags it as time for change (currently the FSS display indicates 6000 miles to go on the current oil.)
The lab results state the following for the current oil:
NO CORRECTIVE ACTION REQUIRED, OIL IS SUITABLE FOR CONTINUED USE. RESAMPLE AT NEXT REGULAR INTERVAL

here is the summary of potential wear related metals for the 99 C230K:

=oil ========Iron=Molyb=AL=Co=Si=Visc100=TBN==miles==mo nths_use
Mar 14, 05
MOBIL1 0W40==11==80===3==6==5==10.27==8.7==3700===6.5
Nov 27, 05
AMSOIL 5W40==10==18===3==5==4==12.72==5.6==4360===8.5

The other wear metal counts were virtually the same.

As you can see there is something definetely going for the Amsoil oil here. It is not just a bunch of lunatics pushing for their team colors that post their satisfaction with results they observe and better yet, get it to be quantified scientifically.
I have on purpose done the test on the same car and consequently with about the same mileage (about 55,000 miles) and under the same daily driving conditions (city/highway 75/25% driving) and driver. This defuses some of the brush offs I got when I posted the initial results in Apr 05.

So here you go, Another myth debunked. There are other companies out there that make excellent quality oil without resorting to heavy promotinal and paid sponsorship. In fact the money they save in not doing that can be better benefit me when used to improve the quality and quantity of better materials in their formulation.
Another myth debunked most FSS based car owners should know by now is that, if you use a top of the line excellent quality synthetic oil it should be safe to go through the full FSS period of 10,000 miles or 12 months without an oil change in most cases of well taken care of engines still operating well. A lab analysis which costs less than 20.00 serves mostly to check the conditions of the engine or transmission components on occasional basis or when buying a used car. So in that case it is good to reduce the middle east oil dependency and brake the 3000 miles/3 months chain around your neck.
The oil filter (if not the new felt element type) should still be replaced each 6 months and oil should be added routinely (after engine has been stopped for more than 15 min), if needed to keep the level near the max on the dip stick.