jimm

The 2 year lease on my ’08 E-350 Sport will be up next June.

The 2010’s will be out by then but .. “at this time” .. I don’t plan
to get another Mercedes because of the outdated electronics. I
realize, from earlier postings, that I‘m probably in the minority ..
that most of you don’t care about that.

But, at 77, the latest and greatest auto electronics is of KEY
importance to ME. Starting with the Nav and everything else
on down. Over the years, I’ve had other MBs and, as I look back,
they have always been behind in the LATEST electronics.

I know I’ll get criticized for putting too much importance on
electronics, because I’m supposed to just talk about “how well
it handles.” But, believe it or not, there are other cars today
that handle quite well. At least for a 77 year old guy.

When I turn it in: do ALL dealers ALWAYS soak you with a
500 turn-in fee? (I know they waive it if you repurchase, but
I won’t be doing that.) Is that fee STRICTLY the dealers option?

Thanks.

cleankutazn

I've returned bmws before without any fees and not repurchasing

Blk04cobra1

It is not a dealer fee, it is a fee from your leasing company (whether it be MBF, USBank, Chase, etc)...most of the time, if it is with MBF and you re-lease a Mercedes, they will waive the turn-in fee or disposition as it's called.

Rainman15

I am in the same boat with my 06 C230. My 36 mo lease ends in Feb 09, and though I will be getting another MB, it will not be from a MB dealer so I'll have to eat that lease end disposition fee as well. I'm about 6k under on my mileage so at least I don't have that to worry about, and the car has sat in the garage most of the time I've had it so it there should be no recondition penalties. Like previously posted, that disposition fee is levied by the finance company, not the dealership. The dealer only covers that if you are buying something else from them when you turn in your lease. My wife has worked for a dealership nearly 15 years so I have this first hand info.

Once I turn my current car in we will be a one car family (no big deal, we live in NYC) for about 5 months then I plan to buy an 08 E350 sport in summer 09. Having that couple of months extra time to look around without any pressure will hopefully allow me to find just the right car with everything I'm looking for at the right price. I want a RWD white 08 E350 sport with keyless go, navi, tan or ash interior, and the woodgrain steering wheel. I think that would be the P2 package. I don't want the pana roof or 4 matic options but that is about all I'm really against having.

jimm

Sounds like you’re looking for exactly the car I have .. EXCEPT that mine is
black. (I really prefer white too, but my previous car was white so I decided
to change.) I don’t like the sliding roof either, but I “think” it comes with the
p2 package, which I have. (I have NEVER opened one on any car I’ve had,
but all luxury packages on all cars seem to include it.)

By the way, I bought the wood steering wheel AFTER the car came in. (Think
it was about 700 buying it afterward.) They refused to give me credit for it
in the lease value set-up. It’s a tiny bit off-shade from the other wood. By
the way, I didn’t get the “black” wood. To me, the “black” wood doesn’t have
the quality wood look.

I’ve had wood steering wheels on other cars and always liked it. BUT, it DOES
get hot after sitting and, for a MB, I probably would not get it the next time.
(The push button start also gets frying hot.)

Good luck.

NCE500

Jimm,

Agree that the Comand electronics on our cars are a generation behind, but the new S Class, C Class and also the 09 E seems to rectify that, based on my playing with a C Class demo and the 09 E product literature anyway.

I can't speak for lease turn in fees etc, but I would suggest that you check out the new electronics before giving up on the Brand.

Just my .02.

pmb600

I agree. Electronics are very important to me as well, which is why I have waited for the 2009 CLS or E because they will have the same functionality (actually more) than the new S/CL/C. The new E-Class COMAND will get HD radio, the new ipod interface which is amazing, bluetooth standard built in, Sirrius traffic etc etc.

Jimm--don't you think that assuming the W212 will be outdated is unfair? I think that MB has proven that when the car is first released it is usually cutting edge (look at the 2007 S-Class). I have no doubt that the W212 E-Class will have similar new technology. The 2008 E-Class is now in its 6th model year, of course some things will not be cutting edge.

Also what types of things other than the COMAND in the 2008s do you find outdated?

termigni

Jimm, MBs are great cars but if your priority is the latest electronics, do not look back and go for a Lexus or Infiniti, something Japanese. Japanese cars have the best electronics out there, do not expect that from any other manufacturers because it will never happen.

Japanese - Electronics
German - Engineering
Italian - Design

If you combine these three into one car, we will have one ultimate car.

yes, you do have to pay disposal(or something) fee at the end of your lease... unfortunately...

jimm

Maybe I AM being unfair in assuming that the 2010 E will be
behind OTHER 2010 cars in electronics. That’s just my hunch
from previous knowledge and experience with MB.

I didn’t realize that the 09’s had drastically updated electronics.
So, maybe everything’s totally up to date now.

You asked what I don’t like about my 08 E electronics. There
are many things, but to name just a few:

* The radio and Nav should be TOUCH screen like everybody
else has! The pathetic Nav, with pick & peck entry, at least
through 08, has to be an embarrassment to MB.

* Any Nav should take you to the EXACT location, like the $250
hand-helds have done for YEARS! (I bought a Nuvi to put on the
windshield. Isn’t it a shame to have to do this to get “complete”
directions in a MB?)

*The seat should be fully automatic when you get in and out.
(Having to “hold the button” while it slowly slides up or back
is infuriating for 2008! Makes me mad every time I get in or out.)

*Should have back up and side cameras available. (I’m assuming
now that the 09’s have these.)

*Doors should automatically LOCK (like my C6) when you walk
away. (They auto unlock; why not auto lock?) I know .. pushing the
button is not HARD .. but, my problem is, since my C6 auto locks,
I forget to push the button on the E.

*A/C should be digital and adjustable in ONE degree increments, not
TWO.

The above items are probably meaningless to most of you. And, maybe
I AM being too critical. But, to me, it’s what a LUXURY car should have!

cleankutazn

I agree with everything you say up there....coming from a bmw i've gained nothing but lost everything

pmb600

Just a few comments below. I do agree with your frustration on the 2008 nav system it is far behind the times. The 2009 really is much better and will be on my E350 I'm getting in the next few weeks.

Maybe I AM being unfair in assuming that the 2010 E will be
behind OTHER 2010 cars in electronics. That’s just my hunch
from previous knowledge and experience with MB.

I didn’t realize that the 09’s had drastically updated electronics.
So, maybe everything’s totally up to date now.

You asked what I don’t like about my 08 E electronics. There
are many things, but to name just a few:

* The radio and Nav should be TOUCH screen like everybody
else has! The pathetic Nav, with pick & peck entry, at least
through 08, has to be an embarrassment to MB.

This I do have an answer for. MB doesn't believe in touch screen technology for a good reason. In order to place the nav screen up high on the dash where it should be for safety (so you don't have to look down while driving) making it touch screen would force you to lean over to push the screen. I realize this argument is void in an E-Class since it has the nav placed low where you still have to reach down. But for all new Mercedes (S/CL/C and next year E and CLK) the nav system is placed up high on the dash and the control knob is right next to your natural resting place for your hand. The combination of the control knob and the really great voice control is what Mercedes believes is the safest way for a driver to operate the nav. So not having touch screen is really a design philosphy choice on MB's part not a behind the times thing.

* Any Nav should take you to the EXACT location, like the $250
hand-helds have done for YEARS! (I bought a Nuvi to put on the
windshield. Isn’t it a shame to have to do this to get “complete”
directions in a MB?)

Agree completely. 09 navs seem to have corrected this and you can enter the exact numbered address.

*The seat should be fully automatic when you get in and out.
(Having to “hold the button” while it slowly slides up or back
is infuriating for 2008! Makes me mad every time I get in or out.)

I'm not sure why you have to move the seat everytime. If someone else had moved the seat and then when you unlock the door with the remote, the memory should restore the seating position for you. As for why you must push and hold the memory button to get into a different position while in the car, that is again an MB saftey thing. They believe it is dangerous to not be able to stop the movement of the seat. In most cars you push the number for memory and then the seat keeps moving until it gets into position potentially crushing fingers or squishing legs in the back seat. By forcing you to keep your finger on the button until it reaches position, they built in an automatic way to stop it instantlly. I know this is a bit much, but come on they are German.

*Should have back up and side cameras available. (I’m assuming
now that the 09’s have these.)

Agree. 09 wouldn't have this though, this is something I would expect on the new gen W212.

*Doors should automatically LOCK (like my C6) when you walk
away. (They auto unlock; why not auto lock?) I know .. pushing the
button is not HARD .. but, my problem is, since my C6 auto locks,
I forget to push the button on the E.

Could you clarify here? You mean after you get out of the car you want the doors to automatically lock when you walk away from the car?

*A/C should be digital and adjustable in ONE degree increments, not
TWO.

Agree this is just a cost saving measure as the E550 has the fully automatic digital climate control system. E350 is Thermatic and E550 has Thermotronic in Mercedes speak.

The above items are probably meaningless to most of you. And, maybe
I AM being too critical. But, to me, it’s what a LUXURY car should have!

Not meaningless to me certainly, I am always interested in the latest technology as well. I am of your mindset that Mercedes should have a lot of features and be on the cutting edge, which at times they are not. Overall though I just would encourage you to give the 2010 E-Class a chance. I really think they will do a good job on it and it will be the most advanced car in its class when it comes out.

konigstiger

Juergen Schrempp, former CEO – Daimler replaced by Dieter Zetsche

Barry45RPM

Its interesting that on my '04, the Keyless Go Push to Start button on the top of the shifter was plastic, and the one on my '07 is satin aluminum, which gets "frying hot" from sitting in the hot car all day or in the sunlight. You can burn your fingertip by pressing it at 5PM. The 04's plastic button got warm, but not burning hot, and could be pressed without injury at any time.

konigstiger

I hear what your saying, MY04 button was also recessed more and surrounded by leather, have you explored replacing your current handle with one from MY04 ( part # A2112673510) on MBUSA’s dime for safety reasons if it bothers that much?

Polar Bear

Please take a moment to see what you DO get with the E-class. You get a very solid, reliable, safe beautiful car that's an absolute pleasure to drive.

I am sure you could create a similar list on the C6 Corvette you own. I had several Corvettes in my younger days, and really enjoyed them, but they have their issues too.

For me, it was a no-brainer with my E320 CDI.

1. It is a car I enjoy to drive.
2. It is engineered well.
3. It has good enough electronics.
4. It has nice extras such as dynamic seats, ventilated seats, bi-xenon lighting, trunk closer, folding rear seats, Keyless-Go ignition, rear sunshades, neat motorized door for the CD-Changer, iPod integration kit, and many other features and gadgets.
5. It has a DIESEL engine that is good for many, many miles (Why on earth doesn't any other manufacturer make a nice Diesel sedan in the US???).
6. It has a huge amount of torque and is a blast to drive.
7. It gets 40+MPG on the highway.
8. It looks really nice.
9. Diesel equipped cars have excellent resale even with higher mileage on them. I can drive it all I want and not worry about taking as big of a hit when I sell it compared to a gas model.

I absolutely love my E320. I can pick little things all day long about any car, but the positives far outweigh the negatives for me.

How well does XM pick up in your C6?

pmb600

I recently heard this from a salesman when I was shopping around for my new car. He warned me that some complain that the Keyless Go button gets frying hot. At least MB still leaves the regular key option for you. Most companies replace the normal key operation with only a button when equipped with this option.

Interestingly, the switch to the new style shift knob is no doubt a result of Dieter Zetsche's observation when he came into his new role as head of Mercedes-Benz Cars that the company had too many parts variations. I remember reading somewhere that he pointed out that there was some rediculous number of steering wheel variations, which is why we see more carry overs on basic parts. The 2007+ E-Class now shares the steering wheel with the CLS, CLK, and SL-Classes. The 2009 CLS/SL/SLK share a steering wheel design. And pretty much every car that MB sells here that still has a regular shift knob (instead of that Direct Select lever on the steering column) uses the same shift knob design.

Barry45RPM

The hot start button is not a deal breaker for me... just more of an observation of de-evolution and a design error. Besides... I'm doing so well in not needing to be in the shop, thats the way I want to keep it.

..and the PMB600 is right. There are so many variations of trim and other tiny subtle option choices within MBUSA and world wide with this car, its amazing that they roll off the assembly line with the correct build. Its like when the Beatles were recording... They used to record in Multi Track Stereo, and mix it down to 2 channel stereo. Because they also needed a Mono version of the album for stores, they would, for some reason, start from scratch and make a completely different mix down for the mono version instead of simply taking the 2 track stereo version & mixing it down to one track. They were always starting from scratch.

How else do you explain the CD changer and the single slot CD reading & displaying MP3 info differently? 2 different design teams, one working on each unit instead of 1 design team working on both. Too many variations.

Long Islander

I agree with you on all points but this one. I rented a Cadillac STS with their version of Keyless Go and I didn't like the fact that it locked automatically when I left the car (or at least I think it did) because there was no way I could verify that it was locked, since it would only locked if I walked away from the car. There was no audible or visual indication that the car had locked itself up. One time, I sent my wife back to the car to check, while I stood some distance away. I like the fact that on MB, you know that the car is locked because (a) you have to press a button, (b) it gives a subtle "beep," and (c) the lights blink.

pmb600

The Cadillac STS locks itself? My dad has a 2005 STS with their crappy Keyless Go and I always wondered what the point was because there was no button to lock the car from the outside.

I do not want the car to automatically lock by walking away. There needs to be some action to lock it. The button on the door handle for Keyless Go is a perfectly fine solution imo.

mosesgolf

I recently returned our E350 2007 lease and leased an 08. They paid off last 5 payments and waived disposition fee. It was a great deal since we were way over the mileage and would've had to pay about $4500 in mileage penalties had we went to full term. To top it off, I'm paying $110/month less then what was being paid for the 07. $3850 drive off $495 per month and 15,000 miles per year for 27 months. MSRP was over $55,000. They're practically giving these cars away.

In any event, I can't believe that a $55,000 car doesn't have Bluetooth handsfree(gotta pay $500 for some module) and no real time traffic on the Nav. It has it on the 09's but gotta say MB has never been known for their commitment to gadgetry.

Germancar1

How can the electronics be outdated on a 2010 model that anyone has yet to see?


M

jimm

To pmb600:

Yes, I DO mean that the doors should auto lock as you walk away. My
’06 vette has this and it works GREAT! That way, you never forget to
lock it. Other cars may have this auto lock feature, too, I don’t know.

But, respectfully, I can’t agree on your synopsis as to why MB doesn’t
have touch screen, etc. I’ve found MB to be the KING of rationalization
and excuses for why they haven’t kept up to date with their electronics
and sometimes other things.

Their standard excuse has always been “it’s a safety issue.” Because
that’s such a “caring” and “satisfying” answer.

But, one of the mags gave a much more logical reason: MB is trying
to get its reliability rating back up again. Wherein, all the newest
electronics may be more susceptible to failure - thus hurting their
effort back to good reliability.

I believe that to be the “real” explanation. But, I do try to be open
minded and am not saying that I absolutely won’t buy another MB.

pmb600

You are right that MB is concerned about improving reliability and I think they have shown that they are on the right track. New S-Class has won countless awards including one for being best in class in JD Power's IQS.

I can see how you wouldn't believe the saftey rationalizations from MB, but they are true and not having a touch screen nav is just their choice. Since they don't manufacture any of the nav systems anyway (vendors are Alpine, Becker etc.) if they wanted a good touch screen nav that was well tested, either of their companies could help them with it. Anyway, what would make their choice of the COMAND control type of setup more reliable than a touch screen. I would think the other way around since the touch screen setup has been well tested.

I guess bottom line, I just think it's shortsighted to think that the 2010 E-Class will be out of date. That won't be the case, perhaps when it is at the end of its lifecycle (like your W211) is it will have certain things that are not state of the art. But at launch it will most likely be one of the best cars in its class.

Polar Bear

A perfect example of this is the wood trim in a W210. The radio wood trim is different depending on

- Navigation or not
- Headlamp washers or not
- Heated seats or not
- Tow alarm disable or not
- Ventilated seats or not
- same things x 3 for designo, black birdseye maple, etc.

Same for console trim
- Parktronic or not
- Rear sunshade or not
- ESP/ASR or not
- same color issue as above

It's amazing the different parts needed to build these cars...

With the W211 they seemed to have slimmed that down a bit.

Dema

Is not using touch screen against European safety standard?