KL2DC

Don't forget install pics and notes!! Thanks for spearheading this for us, you the man!

KL2DC

Btw, are you pairing this with the factory shocks? What would be a good aftermarket shock? Koni FSD? Bilstein yellows?

AMGTestDriverNJ

I wont, and no they don't have any shocks available I looked into it.

AMGTestDriverNJ

Okay guys heres the deal. Install was a breeze, watched most of it go down no problems whatsoever. Like any other spring install. The information is posted below on R&D sheet they filled out I just figured copy and paste it. The car cosmetically looks great and rides well. I am however, having some trouble with the handling as it is possible the new stiffer spring is too much for the OEM shocks. Vogtland is talking to Koni to see what we can do. For a prototype set, they are pretty good. I am going to keep at this because I really want it to be perfect. Nothing should be compromised. In any event, the car dropped about an inch and a quarter all around and sits really nicely. I've got two crappy camera phone shots for now. In the meantime feel free to post comments or suggestions. Thanks for following I'm sure they'll be more soon.

R&D Data Acquisition
First Article Development

Fuel load Full

Tire size & Manufacture 245/40/18 Conti ProContact

Wheel diameter (lip - lip) 19.5

Driveline configuration
4wd
Dampers P/N: F&R
Ride Height Data
Measurements are to be from center of wheel to fender lip
L/F R/F L/R R/R
Before 27” 27” 27 ½” 27 ½”

After 25 3/4” 25 ¾” 25 7/8 ” 25 7/8”

Difference 0 0 0 0
Suspension Type
Front Rear
Motion Ratio Motion Ratio
Sway Bars
Bar diameter, front 28mm Wall thickness Endlink
Bar diameter, rear
17mm Wall thickness Endlink
Front Rear
Motion Ratio Motion Ratio

AMGTestDriverNJ

suprised nobody has said anything? I hope you guys are dissapointed with the results. I took the car to the city last night and did some things I needed to do there for about an hour and change. The ride quality was good, it wasn't overly stiff and it wasn't like I could feel every road imperfection I drove over so thats always good. No bottoming out scenarios except driving in and out of my awful building's death trap driveway/drivethru area. Its quick and I think its only the muffler tanks so if yours are stock I wouldn't worry about it at all. If for nothing else the car looks great, but I will be putting some more R&D into this so maybe we can have a full suspension kit with shocks and springs together. That would be cool wouldn't it?

JettaGetUpandGo

For some reason my email updates weren't keeping up...

That height looks just about perfect! What still needs to be done before the springs can be put into production?

KL2DC

+1,000,000

I just saw this.

Looks good.

I think you need to have the springs settle first before fully evaluating the bounciness of your set up. Give it max 2 weeks. I think the stock shocks will work fine with the vogtland set up (I can't say about the longevity of the shocks though). From your description, it sounds closer to an eibach-pro kit set up so a more medium stiff shock like a Koni FSD might fit its characteristics.

How's your alignment?

How far along until we get a price and availability.

KL2DC

How soon can we get this??

AMGTestDriverNJ

Hey guys. I'd like to invite anyone in the area to take a test drive on the new springs to see what they think about them. At this point, I would also like to drive a stock 07-08 350 4Matic for comparisons sake. I feel like they may have gotten better since yesterday as I've been driving around today. In any event, the ride quality is great and so is the ride height. Literally perfect. The handling issue I hope will fade as the springs start to become more comfortable in the car but the biggest issue I'm having is during a quick left-right manuever, like say to avoid a pot hole on the highway, when I go to pull back to the other side from the initial jerk, I'm kinda stuck there, like a drag. Its strange. Again, I hope that it will get better as I drive more but I have to be honest. Is it tolerable, yea totally. Most people don't drive like its an SCCA event. I mean, I don't either but I like to take a nice turn ya know? Like I said, I've got the guys at vogtland talking to Koni about a possible shock setup. I am sending them a front and rear spring sample (OEM) so they can look into these handling issues further. It will still be a bit before they are confident to sell these to the public so trust that I'm doing everything I can to make sure they are great for all of you. Overall, I'm happy but it can be improved on, and you know me, it will be. I also want to mention that I have purchased a set of sway bars from Brabus (eibach outsourced) and I'll be looking to either install it straight up (its a regular W211 kit as there is none for 4Matic) or have a new front sway bar made and installed. When the car was up on the lift yesterday I got a good look at both of them. The rear sway bar is the same from 4matic and non, and the front is just slightly different with a few more bends off of the end links. With my situation at this point and Race Technologies working on a Brembo 4Matic brake kit I should have a full custom 4Matic suspension/brake setup for these cars by the end of 09. Stay tuned!

KL2DC

Awesome stuff. Are you sure that handling anomaly can't be cured with a simple (and required) alignment job?

AMGTestDriverNJ

alignment was done right after the springs installed. This is now day 3 so lets give it to two weeks to see how they ride/feel then. In the meantime I shipped out one of each of my stock springs today back to Vogtland for comparison so hopefully they will be able to figue out more with them infront of them. If not, we'll keep trying.

FKD

Can't wait to see what Koni can come up with.

AMGTestDriverNJ

Guys, good news. The springs have settled quite a bit and now are MUCH more tolerable. Not perfect but much much better. Sellable I guess is the word most of you were hoping to hear. Do I think they are, Yes. Its been a little over a week since and they really seem to have improved and gotten used to the shocks and what not. Ride is great, bounce is more than stock but minimal really no big deal even on these Jersey/New York roads and highways.

More good news for us is that I am about 90% sure we are going to get some type of custom valving from Koni @ about $600 give or take which I'm also going to be testing out very shortly.

Vogtland should have my oem springs Monda which may even result in a more refined and better tuned spring for the car, we'll see. Either way, things are really looking up for those of you looking to get more out of your 4Matics.

I also want to note that I have some information regarding 4Matic brake kits so if you are interested please PM me ASAP!

Finally, I'll be testing out some sway bars soon and possibly will be looking to get a custom front bar made for our 4Matic apps. Stay tuned.

KL2DC

nice! we need those springs ASAP!

FKD

Any update??

AMGTestDriverNJ

waiting for shocks from Koni. This may have to be sold as a kit. I'll update you as soon as I know more.

AMGTestDriverNJ

Koni's built and paid for. Waiting on package to be shipped now. A quick note, car's handling has improved noticeably but it is clear there is only so much adaptation the shocks can handle. These new shocks will be much better suited for the car. I was in a high speed/quick-hard braking scenario and saw that under that type of load 19"s on new Falken FKs the car pulled hard left indicating what I'm told is understeer. So hopefully this will be fixed with the addition of the Koni's. Sorry for the slow process but it will get done. All who want should have these available hopefully no later than Summer. Stay tuned.

dannieboiz

Something don't sound right, I have an 04 4matic and i'm using H&R springs for the Sports package for the past 2 years with none of the issues you're experiencing. How's your alignment?

AMGTestDriverNJ

Alignment is fine, if your running H&R springs on a 4Matic they aren't made for your car.

C24owner

H&R does make springs for the 4matic, but they are not available in the US. I had to order mine from a company in Germany.

http://www.orange-tuning.de/shop/ecl...m-p-12190.html

dannieboiz

There are a few folks who used H&R springs on the 4matic with no problem. For me, it's been 2 years and still no problem.

AMGTestDriverNJ

I am willing to bet that this is either a misprint or something that is only suitable for euro model vehicles. I've spoken to H&R at length as well as Eibach and they just do not make 4matic applications. I know in Europe the suspension sits slightly lower as well so idk how that would effect a a slightly higher vehicle *NA spec and so forth. But in any event, I would still be willing to bet that this is the websites typo but I will find out for sure in a few hours. Also, were you talking about lowering springs for your 4matic W203? If so, they came from a group buy through Vogtland suspension which is the company who did mine.

AMGTestDriverNJ

I don't disagree, I was in touch with one member who I know was successful with this. However, H&R and any other shop I've spoken to has recommended against installing parts not specific to the vehicle. I can't disagree, but the added peace of mind of knowing these were R&D'd for my 2008 4matic suspension setup having taken note and measurement of my exact stock spring rates and loads heights and so forth makes me feel alot better. Of course I understand I can achieve the same effects as others have but again, maybe I'm just nuts but I like to know it was made for my car, an engineer looked at it and that it is safe.

That isn't even to say that others set ups aren't safe I just know for certian that mine is and that no long term ware or damage will result from the ones I'm using. With the addition of the Koni's and the sway bars I have in the works this 4Matic will have a pretty tuned suspension, maybe the most worked 4matic suspension on an E class? Can't argue with that right? I'll keep you posted. Thanks for everyone's input.

Those of you waiting for the Vogtland springs give the Orange Tuning post a day for me to respond about it. I will call them and H&R NA and H&R international and find out what the story is with these. Through all the phone calls I've already made if there was indeed a 211 4matic app available I would be pretty upset.

AMGTestDriverNJ

Okay, so I called H&R this morning. They confirmed there is no 4matic sedan application in either germany or north america. The product listed on the orange tuning site is for only a set of front springs, the picture and advertisment here are misleading. The front springs are only 105,00 euro which is about 130 dollars so I knew something didn't make sense right there. The application is only for W211 Wagons with rear airmatic suspension and front spring set ups which I wasn't even aware were available. So that still makes my springs from Vogtland the only "made-for" W211 sedan application in existence at the moment.

dannieboiz

the only real difference between the 4matic and the standard suspension are the fronts. The rear of both cars are exactly identical.

The front struts are shorter to accommodate the additional axle that connects the front wheels, in this case only the front springs would need to be different. This could be the reason why they listed that way.

So the answer is YES H&R do make springs for 4matic.