Pekkle

Yeah, I just learned about this when reading this thread. From time to time I get rough shifting from various speed in Sports mode is really annoying.. I want to get the best performance yet I don't want any of the rough and jerkyness of shifting..I guess I am asking too much.. I will have to drive it a few more thousand miles and see if it gets worse or not..

220S

fwiw, I'm driving a 2009 E350 with only 1k miles on it as a business rental from Enterprise this week. It exhibits the same jerkiness. My previous 2009 E350 also had the issue. But my 2009 E63 AMG has no problems (6k on it.) My previous E350 was "fixed" with a software change (and it also jerked from P to D and rolled back a bit when engaging reverse; all fixed with the software.)

It seems like the older cars have a software and mechanical (valve body) issue(?) But with the newer ones, maybe it's only software After all, the AMGs have the same transmission but it's definitely tuned differently.

Pekkle, using C mode in daily driving is no big deal re: performance. But if you want to start out in first, then stay in C mode but manually shift into 1st before you take off from a stop. It'll shift thru the rest of the gears on it's own as it nears redline (or just return it to D yourself.) That should make life less aggravating, imho.

boghos

Hey Karo,

Its more hard downshifts when in slow speeds ie. traffic. I put it in C mode yesterday and it feels better but once in a while it feels like its about to do the jerking but it doesnt. I have even noticed sometimes if im in reverse and change into drive it does the same jerk as if the car is about to stall if ur drivin stick.

Not sure if it has had the transmission flush with filter change id have to ask the person I bought it from.

I will try the Sneaky ECU reset to see if that helps.

I started noticing it more once I had the sparkplugs changed at the dealer. Oh BTW it has 113K miles on it.

Would you know how much the Valve Body and the update of the software be? Thanks for your help!

W203E35

When you reset your ECU and start driving slow your car will shift slowly (slugishly) but once you reset your ECU and do 5-6 kickdowns and hold it (coupld of seconds) , it will start changing quicker (but you will feel jerking shifts).

If you don't get the jerk in C but you do in S then I have a feeling it might be your Valve Body. Your Valve Body controls the downshifts (mainly). For example on mine it would shift to 1st around 5 mph (so I would feel a jerk). Now after the Valve Body change I feel my transmission changes to 1st around maybe 2mph. I don't even feel it change to first. At one point I thought it doesn't change to 1st untill you come to a complete stop (but it does).

Since you are in C wich C doesn't use 1st gear at all (unless you ar at a stop and press the gas hard then it will downshift) I have a feeling you have the same Valve Body issue that I was having and most members who have the 7 speed transmission.

If you are having jerk when you come to a stop I don't think the ECU reset will fix it. Take it in again and when they sit next to you to replicate the problem the best way is to make sure you get out of first gear and let your foot off the gas and DON"T BRAKE. Let the car come to almost a complete stop (works best if it's kind of uphill). Around 5mph it will shift to 1st and you will feel the jerk.

Also don't let them BS you with Adaptations (the 1st gear jerk is a common problem). When you go there say "It's the Valve Body" and make something up like "my neighbor had the same issue as mine and they changed the Valve Body and I drove it and it's fine". "I have a feeling it's my Valve Body because this will controll the downshift and my car downshifts to 1st too quickly and this is why I am getting the hard downshift to 1st. I don't think the software update might help but if you guys want to do it I don't mind" (makes you sound like you know about the software and that it usually doesn't do much for the hard downshift)
Try to make it seem you know what you are saying and you know of this issue.

On my M272 3.5 I am burning 3qts of oil within 4,600 miles. They gave me a bs about the industry standard is 1 qt every 1,000 miles. Not true they lied to me. On WIS it has a special section of the M272 having a problem of burning oil and procedures. They (MB-WIS) states of oil is being burnt more than .3 liters within 1000KM then there is a problem. Basically what I am trying to say is the dealer doesn't want to deal witht his stuff so educate yourself and go show them you know what you are talkign about. Mention exactly what I said in bold and you should be having a new Valve Body soon.

With mine they flashed the transmission software. Then second time they said it was Adaptations and even said it might be from my rims (i guess he tried to scare me..but I have lorinser rims which mercedes dealers sell Lorinser cars with same rims so I didn't buy it). 3rd time I mentioned the Valve Body that it mgiht have an issue and that's when they changed it.

Good Luck and Keep us Posted,

Karo

W203E35

Hey Boghos,

If it's running that slugishly then you might have few problems.

Find out about the flush and if it hasn't been done yet take care of that first.
Yours might be due to the actual transmission fluid rather than the Valve Body (most these guys have low miles and they are jerking so it's easy to tell what it might be but on your it's harder so we have to go step by step) First thing is to do a transmission flush if you have not done so.

When you put your car in park then to drive does your transmission jerk a little forward? Is this what you meant when you said "I have even noticed sometimes if im in reverse and change into drive it does the same jerk as if the car is about to stall if ur drivin stick"
If so then your transmission mounts are probably worn out. Your transmission sits and these mounts basically hold it in place firmly. Now if those get old (especially if it hasnt been changed in 113k miles) they start to get weak and don't hold as firmly. So when you change gears (P to D) your transmission moves around because it's not in it's place firmly.

But before anything find out if you have had a transmission flush. In the meantime I will find out how much the Valve Body and software will be for your car.

Keep up posted,

Karo

Pekkle

Thanks for the in depth information about the valve body issue. I will certainly use what you wrote in bold to communicate with the dealer and see what they say.

However I have another issue related with the tranny. from time to time at various speeds I can feel rough/jerky when shifting, I believe it was upshift because I was driving at a constant speed, and other times I can feel the rough/jerky shifting when I do a hard accelerate and let go the gas pedal and it will give me that jerky shifting, is that what you called adaptation? or software issue? Just wanted to get a clearer picture to see if the whole issues that I am having with tranny was related to software, valve body or the tranny it's self. Once again thank you for the very informative post!

Pekkle

Woww.. How many Mercedes do you own.. Thanks for the info, I really wish it's a software issue rather than valve body or tranny because software issues are much easier to fix..

W203E35

That is definetly not adaptations. Sounds like a software issue. Tell the dealer "car hangs in up gears and then shifts horribly" basically you are telling the dealer sometimes at high speeds when it's time to change gears the transmission stalls then when it shifts it jerks.

If you take it in for the Valve Body they will update the transmission software as well.

Also mention "sometimes at idle I feel vibrations coming under the car and I feel it might be the transmounts"

Mention all those 3 that I posted in bold and soon you will get a new Valve body. Don't back off if they hastle you take the car back. Be aggressive and keep us updated on what they tell you.

To answer your main question I really feel that it might be a software issue. You might need an update. Have you ever taken your car to the dealer before? Also ask your SA (Service Advisor) to check the computer and see if you have the lastest software.

I had to take it in 3 times before they took care of the problems. Now I have a problem with burning oil

Good Luck and Keep up Posted,

Karo

W203E35

If you take off slow then it will still be in 2nd gear. But if you press the pedal all the way the car will start off in 1st.

Also C downshift later than in S. S slows the car down more when you let go of the pedal but C will cost the car because it wont downshift as quickly.

I'm usually in traffic so I do not prefer C because I constantly have to brake. But in S the car slows down more quicker and I don't have to use my brakes as often.



Lond highway drives use C to coast but in traffic always use S so you car can downshift more quickly.

220S

The AMG transmissions are tuned differently than the regular E Class. Downshifts are more often and quicker even while in C mode keeping braking at a minimum. (The W212 AMG will use MCT instead of the lockup torque converter; should shift faster.) It's something that I noticed right away going from an E350 to an E63.

The 7G-Tronic has a wider spread of ratios and can easily skip gears when downshifting, whether in S or C mode. I think maybe what's happening is it's skipping all the way to 1st, and 1st is pretty short so it's certainly noticeable.

(fwiw, for anyone worried about load on the tranny starting off in 2nd, don't worry. That question was answered on MB's AMG Private Lounge forum by MBUSA.)

W203E35

Great info

I also heard in AMG you can shutoff Adaptations.

220S

I wish.

But it does adapt pretty quickly, doesn't take that many miles. Reset will erase all bad (slow driving) habits, but the 'sneaky reset' doesn't seem to work on the E63s, only the E55s (talked about a lot in the AMG boards.)

The W212 E63 has a race start button (like BMW's 'M' button) that will act like an adaptive 'shut-off' sort of thing.

W203E35

Ohh I see, that's what I'm confusing it with.

I wonder if someone how I can program the "C" to shut off adaptations. So I have "S" with adaptations and then press "C" and this will be "S" but without adaptations

Gave me an Idea there..

Pekkle

Ha, you actually mentioned something I do experience. whenever my car idles, it actually idle pretty roughly (meaning shakes) and I thought that was normal. one thing from my past experience is I am really afraid of letting people change anything related to transmission. when I was young, I drove a honda accord and exhibit a similar problem with hard shifting and dealer has replaced the engine mount and later replaced the whole transmission, and after that my car went downhill the transmission they replaced was worse and I have since sold that car. so I am really worried if they will messed up my tranny by replacing the valve body?

I used to remember a post from this board that MB of Anaheim is not a very good dealer to take your car for service and there was one that they recommended but I don't remember which one now, I think it was by the beach. Do you or do any board member knows a good dealer down here in SoCal? the one I am closer to are either MB of Anaheim or Penske MB in W.Covina and I doubt any of the ones that I am closer are any good.

W203E35

The one that I go to that is OK is "European Keyes Van Nuys". I have been to many other and they are far worse than Keyes. The worst I ever went to was Rusnak in Pasadena. If you don't go there without an AMG or 600 good luck getting good service.
Also before you go educate yourself on the issue so you know they are not hassling you.

Don't worry about them not doing a good job. I don't trust the techs eighter because when I took my car in once for transmission one tech said the transmission problem might be from my rims and showed me a sticker on the door that says not to mount wheels over a certain size.

I told him "Are you kidding me? that message is for stock wheels so they don't mount other tires"

They will always try to find an excuse and almost 90% of the time they tell you to replicate the problem.
I sometimes say the problem is "intermittent" and it happens once in a while and right now I can't replicate it. Never stop, keep taking in your car until they fix the issue. I took it in 3 times before they agreed that there was a problem.

If you decide to take it to Keyes ask for Max. My SA told me everything was fine. Then Max came along for the ride and he instantly said yes there is a problem.

Pekkle

It's a little far, but to get my problem solved I will take the trip. Is Max SA or Tech?

Kar don

220S, AMG's exhibit the same behaviors as the 7g in my CLS550... crap. Drove an S63, same lousy downshift and lazyness that my CLS has. Often times I'll be in traffic slowly accelerating to around 20-25 mph and ill see a break and i goose the throttle and right when i do that it upshifts, yes upshifts... causing superrrrr slow acceleration. Seems like if you catch the 7g once it starts to prefill the clutch it already made up its mind and its making the upshift, really annoying.

MB should take a hint from BMW and Lexus and have an actual sport program for their transmissions. BMW flip the stick to the left, on a Lexus press ECT PWR. MB? turn the key to position 1, mash the throttle, turn the key back, rub the dash three times, cross ur fingers, open the door, speak sweet love to it in German, then hope it drives more responsive for a couple of days. The 7g kills the car.

W203E35

He is a Service Adviser. He really knows his stuff. But before driving that far go to where you go usually and mention the problems in bold that I said. Maybe that will get the job done.

Good Luck

W203E35

I honestly don't blame the transmission in both of those cars but at the same time I'm not saying the transmission on those cars are angels. The one to blame is adaptations. Since you were in traffic adaptations adjusted to that style of driving. So when you pressed the throttle you didn't get a good response. On my car everyday I feel a change in shifts. One day it's very responsive and one day it's crap which is all thanks to adaptations.

In STAR you can reset adaptations (but have not seen it be disabled) which honestly I feel there is a bigger difference resetting adaptations in STAR than doing a "Sneaky ECU Reset".

Just an idea of how adaptations suck (did a little test of my own) I raced an IS300 3 times. First time we were neck to neck till 2nd gear. 2nd time (almost same just felt a little better take off). 3rd time I screeched tires and I had him on first gear).
Also you'll know when adaptations changed towards aggressive when your gears hold more (normal driving after aggressive driving my car switches at 4 -4 1/2) and when you let go of gas the gar is still in gear (3k to 3 1/2 and I've even had almost 5k rpm hold on the freeway).

I agree on the ECU reset part it's a pain in the ***.

But once you do it give it a good 5 pedal to the ground and you'll see how different your car will act. You'll feel you have a new transmission and most of the times a faster car

I totally agree with you Kar Don. Mercedes needs to take care of this adaptation BS. Especially with their AMG cars.

Pekkle

Thanks Karo! Will try my local dealer first and I will go from there.

220S

I guess I just drive it too fast I've never had it upshift like that I usually hit the paddle and do a downshift anyway if I need to really punch it.

Karo's quite correct with the adaptation issue. In theory it's a good idea but it s*cks in real life. So don't let Gramma drive your car anymore

The MCT in the new AMG will fix everything (unless it acts like the early SLs; hopefully they debugged it by now but somebody on the PL got their SL63 lemoned by MBUSA and bought a SL65 just to stay far away from the MCT.)

And the W212 E63 will have the magic button (finally!) An 'AMG button' on the center console....

Kar don

I just feel like that C/S button is useless on our cars. Who uses C anyway? The only time you would use C is starting off in the winter time... so it should be called W -Winter like it was back in 2003. S? Should be sport, but I guess they decided Standard is better.

W203E35

Remember what we covered 3 main points you have to mention.

• Also don't let them BS you with Adaptations (the 1st gear jerk is a common problem). When you go there say "It's the Valve Body" and make something up like "my neighbor had the same issue as mine and they changed the Valve Body and I drove it and it's fine". "I have a feeling it's my Valve Body because this will controll the downshift and my car downshifts to 1st too quickly and this is why I am getting the hard downshift to 1st. I don't think the software update might help but if you guys want to do it I don't mind" (makes you sound like you know about the software and that it usually doesn't do much for the hard downshift)
  Try to make it seem you know what you are saying and you know of this issue.

• Tell the dealer "car hangs in up gears and then shifts horribly" basically you are telling the dealer sometimes at high speeds when it's time to change gears the transmission stalls then when it shifts it jerks.

• Also mention "sometimes at idle I feel vibrations coming under the car and I feel it might be the transmounts" This is a common problem and most of the time they will change it. Also mention this "when putting into drive I sometimes feel a clunk from under vehicle and I suspect it might be the front sway bar links can you inspect this?"
  
  
  Mention all those 3 that I posted in bold and soon you will get a new Valve body. Don't back off if they hassle you take the car back. Be aggressive and keep us updated on what they tell you.

Always remember they might give you excuses and don't be shy. Tell them you know what's wrong. Tell them the 7G-Tronic has had a lot of software issue and Valve Body issue and that you are aware of it.

Good Luck and Keep us posted,

My turn is Thursday got an appointment because my car is burning oil. I burned 3qts within 4,600 miles which the guy BSed me and said industry standard is 1qt ever 1000 miles and that it is normal. THIS IS BS good thing I know the consumption that MB accepts and does not.
Just a tip MB accept 0.3 liter of consumption at ever 1000km.
That is around 0.32 qts every 621 miles.

Anyway I spammed this thread enough already. I check here often because I have the exact same engine and transmission as the E350 but in a C class body lol

Keep us posted Pekkle,

If they give you the run around let me know and we can figure out the next step


I almost forgot 80% of the time when you ask for a manager stuff usually get's done. So don't ever be affraid to ask for their manager. BUT dont be rude when you ask them for a manager. Say something like I know you guys are doing your job and I have to do my job as a customer because I know I have a problem.

Don't threaten them or anything because that won't get you far but at the same time don't be a whimp so they can walk all over you. Also be very confident. What I have provided you is very good info. I went 4 months into hiding and read the transmission info from top to bottom

Here is a 7G Book. It has a lot of info about the transmission. It's a big file so it didn't meet the size requirements so I couldn't upload it on MBWorld.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NA8MGSJE

220S

Great file, thanks for uploading it. It shows the downshift sequence of skipped gears and makes me think more about that maybe this is what's happening to people (the skip sequence going from 3 to 1 in S mode, but when in C mode there's no 1.) It seems like maybe the algorithms written into the ECM's permanent memory of the corresponding valve body could be faulty(?)

W203E35

Sure

I think so as well. When I took it in the first time MB tried to do it the cheap way (Transmission software upgrade) which I believe they try to control the downshift. After they flashed my transmission I did feel a slight difference but the jerk was there. I honestly feel there is no way that the updated transmission software can fix this because the Valve Body isn't designed for the software and still interferes.

I have done a lot of self tests on the updated Valve Body (driving and feeling the shifts) and my conclusion is the car shifts to the lowest gear while almost stopped BUT if you drive aggressive you will still feel this (very minute) which again is thanks to adaptations.

Before I would feel the shift slowing down to almost a stop (around 5 mph). Now I can easily say anywhere from 1-2 mph I feel the downshift to the lowest gear.

I have a hunch that Adaptations is really putting more fuel to the fire by sometimes shifting smoothly and sometimes adapting to hard shift this makes the driver feel like there is a problem with the transmission and sometimes it even interferes with the shifts in general (I have caught it slipping before...it wants to downshift and I start pressing the pedal and it slips out of gear)

Imagine it constantly adapts to your driving and especially in SoCal one minute freeway is traffic and one minute it's open and when drivers accelerate it throws them off.

But yes I do strongly believe the "Hard downshift to first" is not normal. It most likely has to do with the Valve Body. Numerous members have had the valve body issue as well.

Good Luck to Everyone