K-A

To me, what I'd like M-B to continue to do is build the most detail-oriented, quality, comfortable, attractive, luxurious and safe cars out there. That's my demand, handling and the like are great, but I don't stress it when looking for one. If I want that I'd go to a BMW. Right now M-B is in a panic since BMW took over the sales crown, so it looks like they are in a confusion toward the direction they want to go in.... i.e dropping some of the elegantly-refined designs for more Bangle-y, angular, durable and imposing designs that scream Quality before Refinement (M-B's quality problems and BMW free Maintenance plans were what really allowed them to one-up M-B in the Sales BTW). We'll see how it fares for them.

mescaline

Safety?

Have you seen some crash tests around lately? All car manufacturers today are building very very safe cars so Mercedes can't go out and have that excuse anymore. We live in 21st century where cars like "SMART" can be very safe despite their size thanks to our advanced technology.

Quality?

You know yourself that quality dropped for Mercedes insanely, I don't see this improving for some time, I wish but well... Mercedes took like 5th place on German quality test this year, very very...bad.

Comfortable?

As I said, you pick one...handling or comfort. I can bet you on anything that BMW can make just as comfortable cars but then they would be making ...Mercedes heh.

Attractive & luxurious?

You know ESP, Navi, cruise control, electronic seats with memory, park sensors, keyless go systems, rain sensors, automatic parking help .... all those systems are pretty much standard on newer cars... which make them very attractive

We live in a world where technology is not an issue anymore, where car manufacturers need to give us more than a couple of xenon lights, rain sensors and stuff....everyone can do this now. We need...future, we need maintenance free cars, we need cars that will do 100mpg, this is what I expect from Mercedes.... because this is what Mercedes once was, 10 years ahead of everyone else.

mspaul

OMG, I was just checking in and it looks like this thread has taken a wrong turn. MB and BMW are both excellent cars, its just a personal opinion if someone prefers one and not the other.

I don't think I will move to BMW anytime, Maserati may be

I don't like w212 for sure.

gaazmon

The W211 survived this long because that was the production life. You want them to change the car every 4 years? Why? So, the car depreciates even more than it does already. I wish they would keep the same design for at least 8 years, ensures holding of value more.

And when you say BMW is faster, that's not necessarily true.

And that's funny about people moving towards BMW, cause where I live, and K-A knows where I live, I see more S550's and S63's everyday, versus the number of 750's has diminished by soooo much. I haven't even seen 1 new design 750 on the road yet.

Btw, the free maintenance sh*t from BMW, people, you don't really believe that right? I mean they just figure it into the price of the cars. That's why I hate it when people say "oh they give you free maintenance." Ya, I've heard stories about BMW "honoring" warranty work that needs to be done. A BMW will never be as comfortable as a MB. I've sat in 745s and 750s versus S500s and S550s, man what a difference. And there was a reason why BMW was advertising a 750i base for $900 / month lease in the U.S. about a year or so back. They were so cheap, that's why people bought them. That's why my friends parents leased one: cause it was 1300 / month for the 750iL fully loaded versus $1600 for a base S550. Me, I'd still take the S550. BMW just knows how to market better than MB. MB has gone for years thinking it didn't need to market itself, however, they should though.

If I want a sports car, I'm buying a 911, not something trying to be one.

mspaul

Bulls eye. That's another reason I don't like BMW. I just hate when cars try to be something.

As far as advertising is concerned - You rarely see Maserati, Rolls Roys and other high end brands advertising and Mercedes seems to follow the same philosophy.

Boulder GT3

I think Benz is really back sliding in terms of quality and quality of materials with the exception of the S classes. There is a reason why their quality numbers supported with ample data are behind BMW.

I like the E class but the cheap little rings on HVAC controls, hostile DVD nav, and just lower grade interiors than they used to have are bugging me. Having said that, the Benzes I've got drive great.

Some of the stuff in the C's seems downright cheap.

BMW does a much better job of having their entire line be at more or less the same quality level.

I'm starting to hate M/B service. It is the upsell express. No, I don't want to supersize my maintenance and no I don't want fries with that order. Just fix the darn car and stop trying to nickel dime me.

Both good cars, just buy the one you like.

K-A

That's true, I haven't seen one new 7 on the road. I see W221's everywhere in nice neighborhoods.

I also find it interesting that the 5-Series outsells the E-Class right now, since I see W211's in L.A EVERYWHERE, and I mean everywhere, even the '09's look to be selling like hotcakes here (comparatively speaking, with the Economy and all).

I'm glad M-B put the AMG package on the '09's, it makes much more interesting and fun to see around now, if they included it in more MY's (which I'm glad they didn't personally ) the car would have sold even better with the younger crowd, as people love the AMG styling (which is why the C-Class Sports sell so much more than the Luxuries, etc.)

BTW, agreed once again on the C-Classes interior, it makes the car so disappointing when I have to drive it.

Edit: Oh, and I agree on the HVAC of the 211. I honestly think the W211 has one of the nicest, most quality and well balanced interiors of any car offered in this time-period, I really love it, but the HVAC system is it's biggest flaw, I don't mind the looks of the rings, but they seemed to skimp out on that area a bit.

gaazmon

Honestly the only MBs I would buy now are the E (W211), S (W221), and CL (W215 and W216). These three cars are just awesome in my book.

I love the current E. It is so nice IMO. The exterior is so elegant and the interior is awesome (even though it could use a little more upgrade). One of the only things about the interior of the E that bothers me is not having a 4-zone AC system in the E320s. I noticed this as a huge drawback on a trip to Laguna Nigel once when I had to sit in the back cause the whole family was in the car.

Boulder GT3

That observatoin might be a little tainted as the new 7 hasn't been out long and there are a lot of 221's already in service.

The recent sales of big sleds like the A8, 7 and S class have gone off a cliff.

I would avoid the first year of any of them including the 212. History has shown the higher end MB's and BMW's to be much better cars after the first year.

Dema

You guys are biased towards MB. BMW are amazing cars. New 7 ser beats S class in any way, performance, luxury, style, everything just top notch. MB is like a Sony, too much marketing noise and very over engineered cars.

gaazmon

Nothing like over-engineering. That's how MB's are supposed to be, like the good ole days

mescaline

8 years? oh rly? As said before, we live in 21st century...where world moves very fast and where we have new innovations every day. Volkswagen is giving out new GTI every 4 years or so, Audi is kicking out new models every 4 years and continues to make them even sooner now. Nobody wants to see Mercedes do nothing for 8 years... except you but you are concerned for your cars value more than you are concerned about your car manufacturer keeping up with rest of the industry.

BMW is not faster? Well sorry to inform you...but it is. Anyway this is not the point, the point is getting most out of your car. When we say MB we think big bucks...and for big bucks I want to get ...a lot. This is where MB is falling behind lately. You guys are impressed by stuff that is pretty much standard on ALL cars today, at least in Europe. I don't know but it may be USA and ugly built cars you are used to (blame GM) but here in Europe, honestly, you can't tell a difference today between MB, Audi, VW, Volvo, Saab or any other european car.

K-A

Agreed. And for the record, I LOVE the new 7 Series and think it is in fact an all around better car than the W221. Stylistically as I've stated M-B is moving in a direction (read: copy cats) that I sadly am not into, and Bimmers last generation (which M-B seems to desperately trying to emulate in their own way) were in my personal opinion pretty ugly, then they come out with this beautiful and simply clean and classy 7-Series and make M-B look like fools with their overly fussy new designs coming out....

That's just my bumbling opinion

On a side note, I'm considering getting a newer 3-Series as a daily driver/work long distant trip car to rack the mileage on.

W210

I had a 750Li for 3 years. Before then a few AMGs.

The best thing about the 7 was the individual trim, piano black wood, light leather and that's about it. Well, the ride was quiet but ergonomics was a complete failure.

Mind you, my 2006 was already the mid-life upgraded version. Still no AUX input, clunky transmission (this is in my opinion where Mercedes beats BMW hands down). The abrupt downshift from 2nd to 1st gear when coming to a complete stop on a 7, is a serious problem BMW never managed to resolve.

iDrive was painfully slow, most frustrating gear shift to use, just lots of annoying little things you feel they haven't sorted out.

Mercedes are less fancy but more detail oriented in general, if you ask me.

gaazmon

Value is a big thing when coming to cars. I personally don't want a car that will be outdated within a couple of years, cause in that case, I won't buy it in the first place. I guess in that case Porsche should change the model every 4 years as well or else they might stop selling cars too

220S

Both MB and Porsche are relatively conservative car companies. And that can be a very positive thing.

And it's not to say that they are not technologically capable. We all know that these companies have been in the forefront of innovation.

Other companies (VW is a prime example) are not conservative in the same way. And VW's demographic is very different. Younger people with shorter attention spans.

gaazmon

Agreed, especially about attention spans, LOL. God, I swear I am the wrong age, I should be ten years older with my mind set (at least ten years ).

K-A

Exactly, I mean, look at Porsche for crying out loud, they've had the same basic design look for half a century, and are they not one of the most respected car companies out there? No matter what year, besides some of the "off" models (944, 928, etc.), when you see a Porsche you know it's a Porsche right away. Their buyers appreciate that the brand doesn't do these gimmicky changes every 6 years to outdate the old models heavily.

M-B has always been the same way, they spend tons of money engineering these models that are supposed to be designed to last 7 years whilst still being competitive. Their designs are supposed to be natural evolutions of the past ones, which for the most part they've kept to, with the exception of some new models IMO.

Case-in-point that the life span doesn't hurt them is the E and 5-Series are the top 2 selling cars in their respective categories, with all their 6 and 7 years behind them, over the newer Lexus, etc. models.