Drove 5-series from san jose to san diego
Out Of Control!!
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Midsize sedan is a platform for "utmost of automotive sexuality". With midsize sedans you would have to be total idiot to go wrong with design... now if car is too large or too small..that's another challenge.
Anyway this will go to another direction. What we discuss here is BMW vs Mercedes and bmw's increasing popularity just shows that Mercedes is doing something wrong. BMW shows that you don't have to go for AMG to have a casional sporty car or to shell out insane amount of money for that matter which covers very large range of audience but most of all youth male population that tend to like spiritual driving. This is where BMW gives you more for money than Mercedes does. You may argue this all day long but this is a fact and this comes from an Mercedes owner... now if you are in your 50s with couple of kids and you wanna drive them around comfortably you may opt for Mercedes but it doesn't mean you can't do the same with BMW. This is why I am saying that we as Mercedes owner should demand more, days of Mercedes being just ...Mercedes should be over, we should get MORE...because other manufacturers are doing their job and giving their customers everything once only Mercedes could give. At the end we are just gonna end up with name Mercedes, would you pay extra for the name? I wouldn't.
Anyway this will go to another direction. What we discuss here is BMW vs Mercedes and bmw's increasing popularity just shows that Mercedes is doing something wrong. BMW shows that you don't have to go for AMG to have a casional sporty car or to shell out insane amount of money for that matter which covers very large range of audience but most of all youth male population that tend to like spiritual driving. This is where BMW gives you more for money than Mercedes does. You may argue this all day long but this is a fact and this comes from an Mercedes owner... now if you are in your 50s with couple of kids and you wanna drive them around comfortably you may opt for Mercedes but it doesn't mean you can't do the same with BMW. This is why I am saying that we as Mercedes owner should demand more, days of Mercedes being just ...Mercedes should be over, we should get MORE...because other manufacturers are doing their job and giving their customers everything once only Mercedes could give. At the end we are just gonna end up with name Mercedes, would you pay extra for the name? I wouldn't.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Mercedes E320
Safety?
Have you seen some crash tests around lately? All car manufacturers today are building very very safe cars so Mercedes can't go out and have that excuse anymore. We live in 21st century where cars like "SMART" can be very safe despite their size thanks to our advanced technology.
Quality?
You know yourself that quality dropped for Mercedes insanely, I don't see this improving for some time, I wish but well... Mercedes took like 5th place on German quality test this year, very very...bad.
Comfortable?
As I said, you pick one...handling or comfort. I can bet you on anything that BMW can make just as comfortable cars but then they would be making ...Mercedes heh.
Attractive & luxurious?
You know ESP, Navi, cruise control, electronic seats with memory, park sensors, keyless go systems, rain sensors, automatic parking help .... all those systems are pretty much standard on newer cars... which make them very attractive
We live in a world where technology is not an issue anymore, where car manufacturers need to give us more than a couple of xenon lights, rain sensors and stuff....everyone can do this now. We need...future, we need maintenance free cars, we need cars that will do 100mpg, this is what I expect from Mercedes.... because this is what Mercedes once was, 10 years ahead of everyone else.
Have you seen some crash tests around lately? All car manufacturers today are building very very safe cars so Mercedes can't go out and have that excuse anymore. We live in 21st century where cars like "SMART" can be very safe despite their size thanks to our advanced technology.
Quality?
You know yourself that quality dropped for Mercedes insanely, I don't see this improving for some time, I wish but well... Mercedes took like 5th place on German quality test this year, very very...bad.
Comfortable?
As I said, you pick one...handling or comfort. I can bet you on anything that BMW can make just as comfortable cars but then they would be making ...Mercedes heh.
Attractive & luxurious?
You know ESP, Navi, cruise control, electronic seats with memory, park sensors, keyless go systems, rain sensors, automatic parking help .... all those systems are pretty much standard on newer cars... which make them very attractive
We live in a world where technology is not an issue anymore, where car manufacturers need to give us more than a couple of xenon lights, rain sensors and stuff....everyone can do this now. We need...future, we need maintenance free cars, we need cars that will do 100mpg, this is what I expect from Mercedes.... because this is what Mercedes once was, 10 years ahead of everyone else.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 154
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From: Walnut Creek, CA
2018 Macan, 2018 Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid, 2024 G63
OMG, I was just checking in and it looks like this thread has taken a wrong turn. MB and BMW are both excellent cars, its just a personal opinion if someone prefers one and not the other.
I don't think I will move to BMW anytime, Maserati may be
I don't like w212 for sure.
I don't think I will move to BMW anytime, Maserati may be
I don't like w212 for sure.
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From: Los Angeles
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
E class is a midsize sedan, all mid-size sedans look good. This is a fact... this is why W211 survived as long as it did. You see I personally feel dumb to shell out twice the money for an face-lift version if i already own an pre-facelift car even if I really want that 7G gearbox.
And when you say BMW is faster, that's not necessarily true.
And that's funny about people moving towards BMW, cause where I live, and K-A knows where I live, I see more S550's and S63's everyday, versus the number of 750's has diminished by soooo much. I haven't even seen 1 new design 750 on the road yet.
Btw, the free maintenance sh*t from BMW, people, you don't really believe that right? I mean they just figure it into the price of the cars. That's why I hate it when people say "oh they give you free maintenance." Ya, I've heard stories about BMW "honoring" warranty work that needs to be done. A BMW will never be as comfortable as a MB. I've sat in 745s and 750s versus S500s and S550s, man what a difference. And there was a reason why BMW was advertising a 750i base for $900 / month lease in the U.S. about a year or so back. They were so cheap, that's why people bought them. That's why my friends parents leased one: cause it was 1300 / month for the 750iL fully loaded versus $1600 for a base S550. Me, I'd still take the S550. BMW just knows how to market better than MB. MB has gone for years thinking it didn't need to market itself, however, they should though.
If I want a sports car, I'm buying a 911, not something trying to be one.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 154
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From: Walnut Creek, CA
2018 Macan, 2018 Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid, 2024 G63
As far as advertising is concerned - You rarely see Maserati, Rolls Roys and other high end brands advertising and Mercedes seems to follow the same philosophy.
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E320 CDI, SL550, clk550
I think Benz is really back sliding in terms of quality and quality of materials with the exception of the S classes. There is a reason why their quality numbers supported with ample data are behind BMW.
I like the E class but the cheap little rings on HVAC controls, hostile DVD nav, and just lower grade interiors than they used to have are bugging me. Having said that, the Benzes I've got drive great.
Some of the stuff in the C's seems downright cheap.
BMW does a much better job of having their entire line be at more or less the same quality level.
I'm starting to hate M/B service. It is the upsell express. No, I don't want to supersize my maintenance and no I don't want fries with that order. Just fix the darn car and stop trying to nickel dime me.
Both good cars, just buy the one you like.
I like the E class but the cheap little rings on HVAC controls, hostile DVD nav, and just lower grade interiors than they used to have are bugging me. Having said that, the Benzes I've got drive great.
Some of the stuff in the C's seems downright cheap.
BMW does a much better job of having their entire line be at more or less the same quality level.
I'm starting to hate M/B service. It is the upsell express. No, I don't want to supersize my maintenance and no I don't want fries with that order. Just fix the darn car and stop trying to nickel dime me.
Both good cars, just buy the one you like.
Last edited by Boulder GT3; May 9, 2009 at 03:08 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
The W211 survived this long because that was the production life. You want them to change the car every 4 years? Why? So, the car depreciates even more than it does already. I wish they would keep the same design for at least 8 years, ensures holding of value more.
And when you say BMW is faster, that's not necessarily true.
And that's funny about people moving towards BMW, cause where I live, and K-A knows where I live, I see more S550's and S63's everyday, versus the number of 750's has diminished by soooo much. I haven't even seen 1 new design 750 on the road yet.
Btw, the free maintenance sh*t from BMW, people, you don't really believe that right? I mean they just figure it into the price of the cars. That's why I hate it when people say "oh they give you free maintenance." Ya, I've heard stories about BMW "honoring" warranty work that needs to be done. A BMW will never be as comfortable as a MB. I've sat in 745s and 750s versus S500s and S550s, man what a difference. And there was a reason why BMW was advertising a 750i base for $900 / month lease in the U.S. about a year or so back. They were so cheap, that's why people bought them. That's why my friends parents leased one: cause it was 1300 / month for the 750iL fully loaded versus $1600 for a base S550. Me, I'd still take the S550. BMW just knows how to market better than MB. MB has gone for years thinking it didn't need to market itself, however, they should though.
If I want a sports car, I'm buying a 911, not something trying to be one.
And when you say BMW is faster, that's not necessarily true.
And that's funny about people moving towards BMW, cause where I live, and K-A knows where I live, I see more S550's and S63's everyday, versus the number of 750's has diminished by soooo much. I haven't even seen 1 new design 750 on the road yet.
Btw, the free maintenance sh*t from BMW, people, you don't really believe that right? I mean they just figure it into the price of the cars. That's why I hate it when people say "oh they give you free maintenance." Ya, I've heard stories about BMW "honoring" warranty work that needs to be done. A BMW will never be as comfortable as a MB. I've sat in 745s and 750s versus S500s and S550s, man what a difference. And there was a reason why BMW was advertising a 750i base for $900 / month lease in the U.S. about a year or so back. They were so cheap, that's why people bought them. That's why my friends parents leased one: cause it was 1300 / month for the 750iL fully loaded versus $1600 for a base S550. Me, I'd still take the S550. BMW just knows how to market better than MB. MB has gone for years thinking it didn't need to market itself, however, they should though.
If I want a sports car, I'm buying a 911, not something trying to be one.
I see W221's everywhere in nice neighborhoods.I also find it interesting that the 5-Series outsells the E-Class right now, since I see W211's in L.A EVERYWHERE, and I mean everywhere, even the '09's look to be selling like hotcakes here (comparatively speaking, with the Economy and all).
I'm glad M-B put the AMG package on the '09's, it makes much more interesting and fun to see around now, if they included it in more MY's (which I'm glad they didn't personally
) the car would have sold even better with the younger crowd, as people love the AMG styling (which is why the C-Class Sports sell so much more than the Luxuries, etc.)BTW, agreed once again on the C-Classes interior, it makes the car so disappointing when I have to drive it.
Edit: Oh, and I agree on the HVAC of the 211. I honestly think the W211 has one of the nicest, most quality and well balanced interiors of any car offered in this time-period, I really love it, but the HVAC system is it's biggest flaw, I don't mind the looks of the rings, but they seemed to skimp out on that area a bit.
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From: Los Angeles
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
Honestly the only MBs I would buy now are the E (W211), S (W221), and CL (W215 and W216). These three cars are just awesome in my book.
I love the current E. It is so nice IMO. The exterior is so elegant and the interior is awesome (even though it could use a little more upgrade). One of the only things about the interior of the E that bothers me is not having a 4-zone AC system in the E320s. I noticed this as a huge drawback on a trip to Laguna Nigel once when I had to sit in the back cause the whole family was in the car.
I love the current E. It is so nice IMO. The exterior is so elegant and the interior is awesome (even though it could use a little more upgrade). One of the only things about the interior of the E that bothers me is not having a 4-zone AC system in the E320s. I noticed this as a huge drawback on a trip to Laguna Nigel once when I had to sit in the back cause the whole family was in the car.
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E320 CDI, SL550, clk550
The recent sales of big sleds like the A8, 7 and S class have gone off a cliff.
I would avoid the first year of any of them including the 212. History has shown the higher end MB's and BMW's to be much better cars after the first year.
Last edited by Boulder GT3; May 9, 2009 at 11:19 PM.
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i535
You guys are biased towards MB. BMW are amazing cars. New 7 ser beats S class in any way, performance, luxury, style, everything just top notch. MB is like a Sony, too much marketing noise and very over engineered cars.
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Mercedes E320
The W211 survived this long because that was the production life. You want them to change the car every 4 years? Why? So, the car depreciates even more than it does already. I wish they would keep the same design for at least 8 years, ensures holding of value more.
And when you say BMW is faster, that's not necessarily true.
If I want a sports car, I'm buying a 911, not something trying to be one.
And when you say BMW is faster, that's not necessarily true.
If I want a sports car, I'm buying a 911, not something trying to be one.
BMW is not faster? Well sorry to inform you...but it is. Anyway this is not the point, the point is getting most out of your car. When we say MB we think big bucks...and for big bucks I want to get ...a lot. This is where MB is falling behind lately. You guys are impressed by stuff that is pretty much standard on ALL cars today, at least in Europe. I don't know but it may be USA and ugly built cars you are used to (blame GM) but here in Europe, honestly, you can't tell a difference today between MB, Audi, VW, Volvo, Saab or any other european car.
Out Of Control!!
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
That observatoin might be a little tainted as the new 7 hasn't been out long and there are a lot of 221's already in service.
The recent sales of big sleds like the A8, 7 and S class have gone off a cliff.
I would avoid the first year of any of them including the 212. History has shown the higher end MB's and BMW's to be much better cars after the first year.
The recent sales of big sleds like the A8, 7 and S class have gone off a cliff.
I would avoid the first year of any of them including the 212. History has shown the higher end MB's and BMW's to be much better cars after the first year.
That's just my bumbling opinion
On a side note, I'm considering getting a newer 3-Series as a daily driver/work long distant trip car to rack the mileage on.
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
I had a 750Li for 3 years. Before then a few AMGs.
The best thing about the 7 was the individual trim, piano black wood, light leather and that's about it. Well, the ride was quiet but ergonomics was a complete failure.
Mind you, my 2006 was already the mid-life upgraded version. Still no AUX input, clunky transmission (this is in my opinion where Mercedes beats BMW hands down). The abrupt downshift from 2nd to 1st gear when coming to a complete stop on a 7, is a serious problem BMW never managed to resolve.
iDrive was painfully slow, most frustrating gear shift to use, just lots of annoying little things you feel they haven't sorted out.
Mercedes are less fancy but more detail oriented in general, if you ask me.
The best thing about the 7 was the individual trim, piano black wood, light leather and that's about it. Well, the ride was quiet but ergonomics was a complete failure.
Mind you, my 2006 was already the mid-life upgraded version. Still no AUX input, clunky transmission (this is in my opinion where Mercedes beats BMW hands down). The abrupt downshift from 2nd to 1st gear when coming to a complete stop on a 7, is a serious problem BMW never managed to resolve.
iDrive was painfully slow, most frustrating gear shift to use, just lots of annoying little things you feel they haven't sorted out.
Mercedes are less fancy but more detail oriented in general, if you ask me.
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From: Los Angeles
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
8 years? oh rly? As said before, we live in 21st century...where world moves very fast and where we have new innovations every day. Volkswagen is giving out new GTI every 4 years or so, Audi is kicking out new models every 4 years and continues to make them even sooner now. Nobody wants to see Mercedes do nothing for 8 years... except you but you are concerned for your cars value more than you are concerned about your car manufacturer keeping up with rest of the industry.
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Value is a big thing when coming to cars. I personally don't want a car that will be outdated within a couple of years, cause in that case, I won't buy it in the first place. I guess in that case Porsche should change the model every 4 years as well or else they might stop selling cars too
And it's not to say that they are not technologically capable. We all know that these companies have been in the forefront of innovation.
Other companies (VW is a prime example) are not conservative in the same way. And VW's demographic is very different. Younger people with shorter attention spans.
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Both MB and Porsche are relatively conservative car companies. And that can be a very positive thing.
And it's not to say that they are not technologically capable. We all know that these companies have been in the forefront of innovation.
Other companies (VW is a prime example) are not conservative in the same way. And VW's demographic is very different. Younger people with shorter attention spans.
And it's not to say that they are not technologically capable. We all know that these companies have been in the forefront of innovation.
Other companies (VW is a prime example) are not conservative in the same way. And VW's demographic is very different. Younger people with shorter attention spans.
).
Out Of Control!!
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Value is a big thing when coming to cars. I personally don't want a car that will be outdated within a couple of years, cause in that case, I won't buy it in the first place. I guess in that case Porsche should change the model every 4 years as well or else they might stop selling cars too
M-B has always been the same way, they spend tons of money engineering these models that are supposed to be designed to last 7 years whilst still being competitive. Their designs are supposed to be natural evolutions of the past ones, which for the most part they've kept to, with the exception of some new models IMO.
Case-in-point that the life span doesn't hurt them is the E and 5-Series are the top 2 selling cars in their respective categories, with all their 6 and 7 years behind them, over the newer Lexus, etc. models.
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