Comand Availability
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From: N. California
ML430, E500
From what I've read I think MB will retrofit cars that have prepaid for navigation. The difficulty with retrofitting will probably force them to only do those cars that have been prepaid. I still say they will not buy back that many cars.
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From: Washington State
E-500
Originally posted by rayscar
This is a message I got from my dealer today. Seems like MB may be facing a buy back IMO which is not really a bad thing for those of us who prepaid. We've enjoyed our cars during this time and then get a new one with Nav to start over again. That's fine with me.
Message:
Mercedes is trying to come to grips with the size of the problem that
they have created. The current rumor is that the Nav system will not be
retro-fitable at all. I don't know if they have a plan yet-I'll let you
know when I hear.
This is a message I got from my dealer today. Seems like MB may be facing a buy back IMO which is not really a bad thing for those of us who prepaid. We've enjoyed our cars during this time and then get a new one with Nav to start over again. That's fine with me.
Message:
Mercedes is trying to come to grips with the size of the problem that
they have created. The current rumor is that the Nav system will not be
retro-fitable at all. I don't know if they have a plan yet-I'll let you
know when I hear.
Along with some others..maybe you included, I would not have bought the car if Navigation was not available. I did not order until the memo came out advising 1st quarter retro fit and a $500. discount for prepayment. I won't settle for anything else.
Amazing how this jumps back and forth each day.
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From: NC
'03 Mercedes E320
mco: I agree a buyback would be surprising. I would not be surprised, however, at individual dealers now trying to avoid the shop time to retrofit the unit by advising the waiting customers that it's "too hard", "engineers took 3 days and they were Germans" (what does that say about US ingenuity?), "rip up the car", etc., etc. It may well be some dealers are worried the MBUSA reimbursement will not be worth the alternative shop hours that other work could earn. Nobody has a surplus of good techs.
If they can convince the retrofit customer to take his $1625 back, or give up the quest, they don't have a shop time issue. I have seldom seen a shop manager or service advisor eager to get into something that is new. (Neither is the typical high turnover salesman going to advise you of any issues that might hurt him and the sale.) When you deal with "problems" all day, be they minor or major or simply scheduling, it's sometimes human nature to try to avoid anything new. My 2 cents.
If they can convince the retrofit customer to take his $1625 back, or give up the quest, they don't have a shop time issue. I have seldom seen a shop manager or service advisor eager to get into something that is new. (Neither is the typical high turnover salesman going to advise you of any issues that might hurt him and the sale.) When you deal with "problems" all day, be they minor or major or simply scheduling, it's sometimes human nature to try to avoid anything new. My 2 cents.
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From: VA
03 E320, sport package, moon roof, sound upgrade, brilliant silver, charcoal leather, heated seats..
I think MB will instruct dealers to send your check back with a note that the Command navigation will not be available in the 2003 model year as originally planned, and thank you for your interest in MB products.
Last edited by drb; Mar 11, 2003 at 10:36 AM.
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Originally posted by drb
I think MB will instruct dealers to send your check back with a note that the Command navigation will not be available in the 2003 model year as originally planned, and thank you for your interest in MB products.
I think MB will instruct dealers to send your check back with a note that the Command navigation will not be available in the 2003 model year as originally planned, and thank you for your interest in MB products.
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From: New York
I am really screwed. The only reason I bought the car was because I thought navigation would be retrofittable. However, I did not prepay. My dealer didn't know that I was suppose to. So he discounted my car an extra $500 and said to pay full price when navigation becomes available. I doubt they will do anything for me now.
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Originally posted by Zandorf
I am really screwed. The only reason I bought the car was because I thought navigation would be retrofittable. However, I did not prepay. My dealer didn't know that I was suppose to. So he discounted my car an extra $500 and said to pay full price when navigation becomes available. I doubt they will do anything for me now.
I am really screwed. The only reason I bought the car was because I thought navigation would be retrofittable. However, I did not prepay. My dealer didn't know that I was suppose to. So he discounted my car an extra $500 and said to pay full price when navigation becomes available. I doubt they will do anything for me now.
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From: Chicago suburbs
2003 E500
I give up...
FWIW, I've given up on COMAND and re-ordered the car without it. My car was initially ordered in Dec. 02 with the understanding that COMAND would be available Q1/03 and would be retrofitted to the prewired car. The many posts on this board resulted in my having to educate my dealer on the COMAND problems and, despite his repeated assurances (and MBUSA's) that my car would be COMAND enabled one way or the other, it was built and delivered to the dealer without the prewiring. I initially wanted to wait for COMAND, and as a result of an apparent misunderstanding, the dealer sold my car while I was out of the country.
Anyway, it seems to me that although COMAND might be the most "elegant" solution to nav, it is by no means the only one. There are companies like Garmin that make very capable GPS units (I have a StreetPilot III) that are easily and economically replaceable as technology advancements warrant. I'm not sure that the same will apply to the COMAND system.
This will be my first MB experience, and I must say that I am very disappointed in the way MB has handled this whole fiasco, but the comments of many on this board lead me to believe that the car is truly what I want, even without COMAND.
I'm not saying that my decision can or should work for others, and a $60k car should include nav capability, but I'm tired of putting all this effort into my decision. I truly hope that MB will do what is right and make good on their promises of COMAND availability to all of you that have taken delivery under those expectations.
Many thanks to all here for the invaluable info and insight you share.
Anyway, it seems to me that although COMAND might be the most "elegant" solution to nav, it is by no means the only one. There are companies like Garmin that make very capable GPS units (I have a StreetPilot III) that are easily and economically replaceable as technology advancements warrant. I'm not sure that the same will apply to the COMAND system.
This will be my first MB experience, and I must say that I am very disappointed in the way MB has handled this whole fiasco, but the comments of many on this board lead me to believe that the car is truly what I want, even without COMAND.
I'm not saying that my decision can or should work for others, and a $60k car should include nav capability, but I'm tired of putting all this effort into my decision. I truly hope that MB will do what is right and make good on their promises of COMAND availability to all of you that have taken delivery under those expectations.
Many thanks to all here for the invaluable info and insight you share.
Last edited by rtrider; Mar 11, 2003 at 01:55 PM.
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rtrider,
Shows how this forum is invaluable to a buyer. You would be screwed by your dealer if you were not informed via this forum.
My suggestion would be the following. My dealer has still told me April production is what MBUSA is saying. Also, from all the activity (liking asking dealers for counts, etc), my gut tells me "something is up" and they may be close to having COMAND ready. Why don't you have them order your car for April production without COMAND, and then if it becomes available in the next week or 2, then they can add it to your order at the last minute. You're maximum talking about 2-3 weeks more (assuming they could otherwise produce your car right away), but you will be having a possibly good chance at getting COMAND. After waiting this long, it may not be that bad.
Me personally, I am waiting until April, if they don't have it available, I will change my car to a 2004 available Sept or so. My current car works, and I will just use it for 6 more months, but then get a brand new model year car.
Shows how this forum is invaluable to a buyer. You would be screwed by your dealer if you were not informed via this forum.
My suggestion would be the following. My dealer has still told me April production is what MBUSA is saying. Also, from all the activity (liking asking dealers for counts, etc), my gut tells me "something is up" and they may be close to having COMAND ready. Why don't you have them order your car for April production without COMAND, and then if it becomes available in the next week or 2, then they can add it to your order at the last minute. You're maximum talking about 2-3 weeks more (assuming they could otherwise produce your car right away), but you will be having a possibly good chance at getting COMAND. After waiting this long, it may not be that bad.
Me personally, I am waiting until April, if they don't have it available, I will change my car to a 2004 available Sept or so. My current car works, and I will just use it for 6 more months, but then get a brand new model year car.
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From: Chicago suburbs
2003 E500
Originally posted by abhansali
rtrider,
Shows how this forum is invaluable to a buyer.
rtrider,
Shows how this forum is invaluable to a buyer.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 136
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From: New Jersey
Given that MBUSA publicly circulated a letter advising of the availability and the date of availability of NAV and also collected $1625 as part of their invoice for a vehicle ordered with NAV, in my opinion a strong legal case exists that NAV being available was a major factor influencing a buyer to order this car, and that if NAV is not available, reacquisition of the vehicle would be the result of legal actions that would be filed.
To make matters worse, MBUSA not making good on its promise to supply the NAV as promised in writing to those who bought the car would be a public relations nightmare, at a time when MB can afford it the least - those of you who saw this week's Wall Street Journal article on MB's decline in the Consumer's report rankings know what I mean.
Bottom line - no way does MB not make good on the NAV system - either via retrofit, reacquisition, or cash compensation substantially hgiher than the $1625 originally paid. Bank on it!
To make matters worse, MBUSA not making good on its promise to supply the NAV as promised in writing to those who bought the car would be a public relations nightmare, at a time when MB can afford it the least - those of you who saw this week's Wall Street Journal article on MB's decline in the Consumer's report rankings know what I mean.
Bottom line - no way does MB not make good on the NAV system - either via retrofit, reacquisition, or cash compensation substantially hgiher than the $1625 originally paid. Bank on it!
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From: VA
03 E320, sport package, moon roof, sound upgrade, brilliant silver, charcoal leather, heated seats..
Originally posted by pat a.
Given that MBUSA publicly circulated a letter advising of the availability and the date of availability of NAV and also collected $1625 as part of their invoice for a vehicle ordered with NAV, in my opinion a strong legal case exists that NAV being available was a major factor influencing a buyer to order this car, and that if NAV is not available, reacquisition of the vehicle would be the result of legal actions that would be filed.
To make matters worse, MBUSA not making good on its promise to supply the NAV as promised in writing to those who bought the car would be a public relations nightmare, at a time when MB can afford it the least - those of you who saw this week's Wall Street Journal article on MB's decline in the Consumer's report rankings know what I mean.
Bottom line - no way does MB not make good on the NAV system - either via retrofit, reacquisition, or cash compensation substantially hgiher than the $1625 originally paid. Bank on it!
Given that MBUSA publicly circulated a letter advising of the availability and the date of availability of NAV and also collected $1625 as part of their invoice for a vehicle ordered with NAV, in my opinion a strong legal case exists that NAV being available was a major factor influencing a buyer to order this car, and that if NAV is not available, reacquisition of the vehicle would be the result of legal actions that would be filed.
To make matters worse, MBUSA not making good on its promise to supply the NAV as promised in writing to those who bought the car would be a public relations nightmare, at a time when MB can afford it the least - those of you who saw this week's Wall Street Journal article on MB's decline in the Consumer's report rankings know what I mean.
Bottom line - no way does MB not make good on the NAV system - either via retrofit, reacquisition, or cash compensation substantially hgiher than the $1625 originally paid. Bank on it!
pat a., is your opinion based on your legal knowledge (are you a lawyer?) or did you pass facts to a lawyer who provided this response to you? What letter are you referencing, and where might that letter be found?
thanks
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From: Washington State
E-500
It was posted on autospies, August 30 Volume. Try the link below...let me know if it doesn't work
Ed
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e...e000091046.cfm
Ed
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e...e000091046.cfm
Last edited by etenn; Mar 12, 2003 at 07:49 PM.
Super Member
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From: VA
03 E320, sport package, moon roof, sound upgrade, brilliant silver, charcoal leather, heated seats..
Originally posted by etenn
It was posted on autospies, August 30 Volume. Try the link below...let me know if it doesn't work
Ed
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e...e000091046.cfm
It was posted on autospies, August 30 Volume. Try the link below...let me know if it doesn't work
Ed
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e...e000091046.cfm
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yes my dealer showed me this letter when I order the car, my invoice says it has nav on it and I have a dealership IOU for Nav install. Meanwhile they've been collecting finance charges on the $1600 since october since that was part of the amount financed.
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From: New Jersey
DRB, I have not consulted an attorney on this issue, but the facts are pretty clear - a letter was issued that contained the promise to deliver the system in "early spring 2003" and at a specific price which was collected by MBUSA authorized dealership at the same time of delivery of the vehicle. I want to see them fight this one - I would argue that they failed to deliver the car ordered and paid for. Anyone on this forum an attorney?
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From: Alpharetta, GA
I ordered a 2004 E500. Word from the dealer confirms the bad news: No navi retrofits for 2003 E-class. They are awaiting word from MBUSA on how to compensate those who have ordered navi pre-wired.
The worst thing about this whole thing is not that they constantly delay the new navi. That is almost par for the course with today's high-tech gadgets. The worst thing is how MBUSA and their dealers have gone about it all -- the lack of communication from the dealer to the customer. Many dealers say that MBUSA haven't told them much. I don't buy that. Even if that were true, I, as a customer don't want to hear that. That should be their in-house problem.
I just can't understand why MBUSA promoted vaporware in the first place. They should have sold the previous navi in the 2003 E-class until the new one became ready. They should not have even promoted or hinted of a new navi system until it became ready and available. I can't believe that after all these years MBUSA has been in business they are just now realizing that selling vaporware will bite you in the ***.
Anyway, I am very upset about this whole thing because I have waited over a year for this navi system. However, as it turns out, I am lucky that I have waited. I did not like the idea of having the dealer retrofit a new, complex navigation system so I chose to wait until it became available. I sympathize for those of you who have chosen to go with the promised retrofit. I rather have waited than to be on that retrofit list. But then, at least, you got to drive a new Mercedes E in the interim.
The worst thing about this whole thing is not that they constantly delay the new navi. That is almost par for the course with today's high-tech gadgets. The worst thing is how MBUSA and their dealers have gone about it all -- the lack of communication from the dealer to the customer. Many dealers say that MBUSA haven't told them much. I don't buy that. Even if that were true, I, as a customer don't want to hear that. That should be their in-house problem.
I just can't understand why MBUSA promoted vaporware in the first place. They should have sold the previous navi in the 2003 E-class until the new one became ready. They should not have even promoted or hinted of a new navi system until it became ready and available. I can't believe that after all these years MBUSA has been in business they are just now realizing that selling vaporware will bite you in the ***.
Anyway, I am very upset about this whole thing because I have waited over a year for this navi system. However, as it turns out, I am lucky that I have waited. I did not like the idea of having the dealer retrofit a new, complex navigation system so I chose to wait until it became available. I sympathize for those of you who have chosen to go with the promised retrofit. I rather have waited than to be on that retrofit list. But then, at least, you got to drive a new Mercedes E in the interim.
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From: Washington State
E-500
Originally posted by Baby Jocko
I ordered a 2004 E500. Word from the dealer confirms the bad news: No navi retrofits for 2003 E-class. They are awaiting word from MBUSA on how to compensate those who have ordered navi pre-wired.
The worst thing about this whole thing is not that they constantly delay the new navi. That is almost par for the course with today's high-tech gadgets. The worst thing is how MBUSA and their dealers have gone about it all -- the lack of communication from the dealer to the customer. Many dealers say that MBUSA haven't told them much. I don't buy that. Even if that were true, I, as a customer don't want to hear that. That should be their in-house problem.
I just can't understand why MBUSA promoted vaporware in the first place. They should have sold the previous navi in the 2003 E-class until the new one became ready. They should not have even promoted or hinted of a new navi system until it became ready and available. I can't believe that after all these years
MBUSA has been in business they are just now realizing that selling vaporware will bite you in the ***.
Anyway, I am very upset about this whole thing because I have waited over a year for this navi system. However, as it turns out, I am lucky that I have waited. I did not like the idea of having the dealer retrofit a new, complex navigation system so I chose to wait until it became available. I sympathize for those of you who have chosen to go with the promised retrofit. I rather have waited than to be on that retrofit list. But then, at least, you got to drive a new Mercedes E in the interim.
I ordered a 2004 E500. Word from the dealer confirms the bad news: No navi retrofits for 2003 E-class. They are awaiting word from MBUSA on how to compensate those who have ordered navi pre-wired.
The worst thing about this whole thing is not that they constantly delay the new navi. That is almost par for the course with today's high-tech gadgets. The worst thing is how MBUSA and their dealers have gone about it all -- the lack of communication from the dealer to the customer. Many dealers say that MBUSA haven't told them much. I don't buy that. Even if that were true, I, as a customer don't want to hear that. That should be their in-house problem.
I just can't understand why MBUSA promoted vaporware in the first place. They should have sold the previous navi in the 2003 E-class until the new one became ready. They should not have even promoted or hinted of a new navi system until it became ready and available. I can't believe that after all these years
MBUSA has been in business they are just now realizing that selling vaporware will bite you in the ***.
Anyway, I am very upset about this whole thing because I have waited over a year for this navi system. However, as it turns out, I am lucky that I have waited. I did not like the idea of having the dealer retrofit a new, complex navigation system so I chose to wait until it became available. I sympathize for those of you who have chosen to go with the promised retrofit. I rather have waited than to be on that retrofit list. But then, at least, you got to drive a new Mercedes E in the interim.
Ed
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Hang on "Baby",lets wait until we have some kind of official word from MB before taking it as fact the opinion of one dealer.
If I had a dollar for every different MB dealer, MB German and MB U.S employee we have got opinions and thoughts on I'd be driving a Maybach by now.
A lot more dealers are of the opinion that there will be a retrofit occuring and to be honest I can't see why not.
As long as the prewiring is there it should,as in the case of the W220 S Class's COMAND system, be just a case of removing and unclipping the APS 50 unit and replacing it with the COMAND II unit, just like many dealers,etc have done when replacing one type of stereo in the car for another.
If I had a dollar for every different MB dealer, MB German and MB U.S employee we have got opinions and thoughts on I'd be driving a Maybach by now.
A lot more dealers are of the opinion that there will be a retrofit occuring and to be honest I can't see why not.
As long as the prewiring is there it should,as in the case of the W220 S Class's COMAND system, be just a case of removing and unclipping the APS 50 unit and replacing it with the COMAND II unit, just like many dealers,etc have done when replacing one type of stereo in the car for another.
Last edited by Callaway; Mar 14, 2003 at 12:35 AM.
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Ok... this is interesting... I got the exact same story last week from my dealer... i.e. - "There will not be ANY 2003 E series factory installed with nav... you would need to order an 04..."
The reason I find this interesting is because when I really pushed back and made all the calls, (to MB NYC Eurodelivery who contacted the factory) I got the story that they have no projected date for when they will start factory installing the nav...
I also found that they don't expect to be rolling the 04 model year until September... so when I made it clear to my dealer that I need a car, mid to end of July in Europe, and if I have to walk down the block to the Bimmer people and order a 540 to get a car in Europe this summer if I will, he basically backed way off, and said, (to the effect), Oh heck, we can wait a couple more weeks and see if they start accepting orders with nav... we can still put in the order in early April for early July Euro-delivery...
So this makes me wonder if they were told from higher up to put people off to '04 if they can... who really knows? Noone I'm afraid...
-NavNut
The reason I find this interesting is because when I really pushed back and made all the calls, (to MB NYC Eurodelivery who contacted the factory) I got the story that they have no projected date for when they will start factory installing the nav...
I also found that they don't expect to be rolling the 04 model year until September... so when I made it clear to my dealer that I need a car, mid to end of July in Europe, and if I have to walk down the block to the Bimmer people and order a 540 to get a car in Europe this summer if I will, he basically backed way off, and said, (to the effect), Oh heck, we can wait a couple more weeks and see if they start accepting orders with nav... we can still put in the order in early April for early July Euro-delivery...
So this makes me wonder if they were told from higher up to put people off to '04 if they can... who really knows? Noone I'm afraid...
-NavNut
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sl and M-class E320 4Matic SLK350
NavNut -Are you understanding from your dealer that you might still be able to get a 2004 E via European Delivery in July or was your dealer suggesting you might be able to get a 2003 then with the Nav? How solid was the info you got about 2004's not being available in Europe until Sept for Euro Delivery there? Everything I have heard suggests the 2004 E's will be on dealer lots in the US by October so that would mandate July/August production start up at the latest.
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I think a lot of dealers have decided to take control and instead of giving confusing information (that they can not back up) to the user, they have just decided to tell them "NOT in 2003".
Can you blame the dealers? Do you want to tell customers that it maybe available and then have to tell them every week or every month "not yet..". Then you would have more people upset.
Can you blame the dealers? Do you want to tell customers that it maybe available and then have to tell them every week or every month "not yet..". Then you would have more people upset.
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From: Alpharetta, GA
The "NOT in 2003" specifically refers to retrofits. There will be no 2003 E's retrofitted for navi. That does not necessarilly mean that there will be no factory built 2003 E's with navi. However, build time for 2003 is rapidly nearing its end.
From the information I have received from my dealer and MBUSA, the new navi system is just about ready for production. It's just that if you were to order a 2003 E today, you'd probably would't receive delivery in the US no sooner than June or July, which to me would be worthless to order a 2003 model year car. That's why I went ahead and ordered a 2004 E.
From the information I have received from my dealer and MBUSA, the new navi system is just about ready for production. It's just that if you were to order a 2003 E today, you'd probably would't receive delivery in the US no sooner than June or July, which to me would be worthless to order a 2003 model year car. That's why I went ahead and ordered a 2004 E.
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This makes more sense because as of 1/1/03, no more pre-wiring is being done. So if you go into a dealer today to buy a car on the lot without Navi, he is going to tell you that you can not retrofit, because most likely the cars he has on the lot are all built after 1/1/03. But that does not necessarily mean that those folks who got cars built before 1/1/03 won't get a retrofit.
On the 2003, I think if you get in April production, you can get the car in May. I have pretty much made that my deadline, that if I don't get April production, I'm going to wait for 2004 also.
On the 2003, I think if you get in April production, you can get the car in May. I have pretty much made that my deadline, that if I don't get April production, I'm going to wait for 2004 also.
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That makes more sense... I am not sure if they said that you actually CAN get a 2004 for Euro-delivery in September or if they said that there is no way to get a Euro-Delivery 2004 before September... That was what I was asking... I wanted to know if it was at all possible to get a 2004 with nav (at one point, remember that was the only information I had - i.e. - if you want to be sure to get the nav, order the '04...) in Europe in late July or early August at the latest... figuring that if you get them here in September, you could get them there a touch earlier.
This kind of implies that if you're expecting an '04 for September delivery, I wouldn't hold my breath. It'll probably be more like October. I have been told (and maybe this was to set low expectations) that when I do have my Euro-delivered car shipped, to expect the shipping to take 6 to 8 weeks...
Just a point of reference for people expecting '04's... all information of course is only as reliable as my dealer, through the childhood game of telephone...
-NavNut
This kind of implies that if you're expecting an '04 for September delivery, I wouldn't hold my breath. It'll probably be more like October. I have been told (and maybe this was to set low expectations) that when I do have my Euro-delivered car shipped, to expect the shipping to take 6 to 8 weeks...
Just a point of reference for people expecting '04's... all information of course is only as reliable as my dealer, through the childhood game of telephone...
-NavNut
