NavNut

So MB in NY gets very high marks for courtesy and responsiveness... the person was excellant and followed through. Very polite. Very responsive. Very positive interaction.

Unfortunately the content of the answer kind of stinks. The Euro Delivery person in NY told me that the factory in Munich told her that they have NO IDEA when they will solve their supplier problems with the new COMAND nav system and there are currently NO set dates when they are planning to even start thinking about installing the new system in E500's. (I specifically asked about E500's - maybe that was a mistake - maybe E320's will get it first, but it doesn't sound like it. It sounds like there are basic issues in just getting the product from Harmon/Becker.)

I further pressed her hard on when there will be more information... i.e. - can she give me a "date for a date" as to when we will get more information. She said there is absolutely no information on future information either... all this we've been hearing about our dealers getting a memo in 7 to 10 days is all speculation. There are no set plans for when the systems will start getting installed nor are there any dates for when they will know more or get more info.

This is pretty discouraging. At this point I have no choice. I can put off my final decision until the end of March, but if I don't hear that the option is orderable and expected to be installed for Euro-Delivery by early July, I will have no other choice but to go order a loaded Bimmer 540. It won't have nearly the set of features that a loaded up E500 would, but I need a car this summer in Europe... It's a tired old "golden oldie" model according to all the car mag rags... but I am not going to rent or lease a car this year in Europe and I don't want to keep my high-mileage Audi A6 2.7T after September of this year waiting for the E500 to stabilize for the summer of 2004...

This is going to cost them this sale... and probably a few others over the next 5 years... I don't want to sound like a spoiled child, but I don't want the Bimmer! I want the E500! (I know... I know... poor me...)

-NavNut

abhansali

spartan1,

Please, please, please tell us what you saw on how the command system works. What are the features? We've been hearing all kinds of things....like

1. destination re-routing based on traffic on current route.
2. Bluetooth integration, so you can keep your GPRS cell in your pocket and it will automatically integrate with the system
3. voice reco

etc., etc., etc.,

I think you are the first on the board to actually see the system and been given a demo, please fill us MB junkies (and hopefully soon to be owners) in.

drb

Does anyone see a major disconnect between the two posts in this thread?


First, Spartan1 reports seeing the navi in an Eclass at CES and watches it operate.

Later, navnut's high level, on the spot Munich factory sources say there is no command, nothing, no plan, no dates...zip.

Is Spartan1 reporting a dream?

Is the Munich factory in an alternate universe?

What can this mean?

abhansali

Being a CEO of a company that does software design (and a lot of embedded work), seeing something work, and when it is available are 2 different things. For example, we are working with some equipment manufacturers right now that need our final version of software today, but the first equipment with those products won't hit the streets until June.

Factory production, testing, etc., take a lot of time, and that is assuming that what spartan1 saw was "production" level product. It could be that was he saw is beta level and anyone that has beta tested MS Windows will tell you that it looks like it works, but really does not.

drb

abhansali, based on your experience, would you say the promises of delivery in January, February, March and April were salesmen's pipe dreams since the factory never had any information to start with, according to navnut's sources?

If true, would you conclude those of us who paid upfront for delivery in the 1st or 2nd quarter were misled by the dealerships who had no basis for their projection (again considering the Munich factory cannot, to this day, say when the system will become a deliverable)?

Or, am I missing something?

abhansali

I think the factory probably had a schedule that said, software/hardware development complete, sometime in Sept or so (just a guess) and maybe a few months to roll the production line (so early Jan/Feb). Based on this the retrofit, discount and other things were probably related to dealers. Probably, my guess is that the software/hardware design got delayed to December or so (which explains why they had samples at CES) and now testing and production is on-going and ramping up. This explains the potential April production, but maybe it can be later if all things don't go well.

It would also explain to me some of the retrofit questions. In Aug/Sept, everyone probably thought, no problem for retrofit. Some engineers probably came along and announced problems with potential retrofit (after all the marketing messaging was done). This has probably had a bunch to do with the development delays thus delaying production. In fact, my first thought when I was told that this could be retrofitted was a little bit of amazement at how engineers would be able to design a brand new system, but not be able to change anything existing in the car....that is not easy.

This is just my 100% guesses, nothing concrete to back it up (only based on the things we have all seen happening). So please don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about, you are probably right....

jhb

I remain thrilled with my E500 and am glad I got it early so I have been been able to enjoy it (even without nav or voice module) for 4 and a half months. I made a post on a thread on the voice module about that at:

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=32372

On the nav, I think it is interesting that Spartan has seen the nav as a Harmon Kardon product. I was told a week ago or so by my sales manager that this problem has been complicated by the fact that the original supplier was to have been Bose and that MB couldn't work final arrangements and pricing out with Bose and reluctantly had to switch to HK. I think that has a lot to do with the uncertainty and evolution of the problem.

I am not in charge of MB, so what use does it do me to be frustrated over it all? As I said a couple of weeks ago, I am enjoying my car immensely and not giving the nav a lot of thought or angst until the situation is clarified. I am having fun in the meantime!!!

Jeff

mco

I agree with Jeff. I absolutely love my car. Sure I want the nav unit, and sure MBUSA promised it to me. But I am enjoying this car every day. The nav unit is mostly a toy. I have it on my ML430 and it is fun to use and occasionally very useful, but I can wait.

I do feel that the lack of information from MBUSA is truly a pr debacle. Even if they came out and said we are having problems and can't give you any further information, at least they would be providing honest information to us.

rayscar

I received this reply from MB a few minutes ago related to my request for info on the status of the DVD Nav system. Surprise! No new information but they appreciate the opportunity to correspond!



Thank you for your recent internet message.

We apologize for the delay of availability of the DVD navigation sytem for your
2003 E500 and appreciate your patience. We seek your understanding however,
that we still do not have specific information about the status of this option.
Please contact your authorized Mercedes-Benz dealer, and ensure they are aware
of your interest. As soon as information becomes available, you will be
contacted.

The opportunity to correspond is appreciated.

Sincerely,
Customer Relations

Callaway

Some contributors have thought that it would be hard to design a new DVD Sat Nav system that still uses the existing wiring in the car.

I disgree.

The only wiring of any significance in the car to the new COMMAND is already in the "pre wire" from the antena to the head unit (just like an aerial socket cable to a television).

The MB service guys just have to remove the old head unit and plug in the new one,provided the wire connections are compatable,which they will be.

It's just like when you get a new TV you don't have to rewire the whole house!!!

The only problem I have is not if,but when this thing arrives.

etenn

The most telling line here is "....we still do not have specific information about the status of this option...."

Does that mean that no one in the Mercedes-Benz organization has any information or that Customer Relations has no more information than we do.

Pathetic.

Ed

PS..Ray who did you email? I have emailed Karen Makris (E-series product manager MBUSA) twice and have not received any response. I did get a card from Paul Juron, General Manager, Customer Assistance Center, stating that
"We remain committed to making your experience with Mercedes_Benz unlike any other" They are successful...this is truly unlike any "service" I have seen:p

Ed

rayscar

Hi Ed, yes i e-mailed through the MB site. It took about a week to get a reply. I've sent another follow-up and I'll post if they respond.

Ray

etenn

Received the following response to the three emails I sent over the last two weeks. I had written the the product manager for the E-series in hope of by-passing the minions at "customer relations". The response I got is from the same level as the representatives who answer the phone at MBUSA and give us pats on the head but no information.
Notice he indicates that it is "not available at this time". No indication that it may be at a later date.
I had asked for a straight forward answer as to whether it would be available...no date, just if it was in fact going to be available to those who prepaid. No answer to that...just beat around the bush.

email response follows:

[b] We have received you internet inquiries and apologize for the delay in responding.
The DVD Navigation system for the 2003 E-Class is currently delayed and is not available at this time. We do ask for your patience and want to assure you
your concerns have been documented and you will be contacted as soon as we have more detailed information regarding the availability of the system.

We are asking if you have prepaid for the system or are leasing a vehicle with the navigation included, you should contact your authorized Mercedes-Benz dealership to remind them you are waiting for the system.

We do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, and wish you many safe and enjoyable miles of driving.

William L.Maher
National Customer Relations Representative
Customer Assistance Center [\b]
_____________________
Maherw@mbusa.com =[I]

NavNut

Oh I don't know... I think that actually sounds pretty hopeful for the people who preordered...

He says to make sure your dealer knows you're waiting for the install. That sounds to me like you will get something and they will do what they can to honor what they originally told you... other info we've gotten looked bad for everyone. At this point, I don't like the idea of ordering one, because they basically won't take the order nor promise that they'll retrofit it.

It sounds to me that those of you who were promised the retrofit will eventually get it. Doesn't help me at all... I need the car this July...

-NavNut

RedBaron

I found some interesting detail on the Nav system in the DC media site (perhaps it showed up on an earlier thread?). Note that this is for the *European* release, but it does contain some interesting tidbits of info. I'm particularly curious why the rear seat screen are mentioned here but not avail in the US. The clincher, of course, is the last sentence.

http://www.media.daimlerchrysler.com/gms_frame

Affalterbach, Oct 10, 2002
A new COMAND system celebrates its world premiere in the E 55 AMG

The latest generation of COMAND is marking its world premiere in the E 55 AMG. The pioneering radio, navigation and communications system is available as an option and stands out with its extensive range of comfort and safety-enhancing features. The new COMAND comes as standard with an RDS car radio with double tuner for FM, long, medium and short-wave reception, an amplifier with 4x 25-watt output, video DVD and audio CD player, and DVD navigation with dynamic route guidance based on RDS-TMC. Faster data transfer allows the new and highly efficient MOST (Media Oriented Systems Transport) bus system to considerably increase the processing speed of the system. The 22.5-megabit band width is a four-fold increase on the previous system, which used a D2B databus system.

DVD navigation increases the speed and precision of the route guidance system

The enlarged 6.5-inch colour screen in 16:9 format improves clarity in the navigation, audio and TV modes (optional). The navigation system is based on leadingedge DVD technology, with a series of factors making the latest incarnation faster and more precise that the previous CD-ROM-based system. The navigation computer has a more powerful processor, and the system also uses a separate asynchronous channel for the route guidance function which cannot be occupied by other channels. The detailed data underpinning the DVD system makes it even more powerful and precise. A DVD for the whole for Europe avoids the need to change from one CD-ROM to the next, making the whole system more user-friendly.

Route guidance also possible in 3-D

The route guidance system can run with either the familiar map and arrow presentation or using a new three-dimensional bird’s-eye perspective. The driver can also select an extremely informative split-screen option, which shows the road map on the left-hand side of the 50:50 screen and the symbols and advice on when to turn off on the right-hand side. The enlarged 6.5-inch colour display in 16:9 format improves clarity in navigation and TV mode. The navigation system can also be extended to include a dynamic route guidance function as an option. There is a separate slot for video DVDs and audio CDs, and a connection point for an MP3 player. The new COMAND system has 30 audio channels, with sound quality showing a considerably improvement on the previous version with six channels. The optionally-available surround-sound system offers the additional pleasure of a concert-hall ambiance.

A second monitor for the rear can be ordered as an option. This allows the rear passengers to watch the television whilst a different function is in use (for example, the navigation system or radio) on the COMAND module in the front of the car, or when the TV pictures are faded out in the front for safety reasons when the car reaches 6 km/h. The rear display offers plug-in facilities for two sets of headphones, as well as auxiliary equipment such as a video camera, digital camera with video output and games console.

“Bluetooth” telephone with state-of-the-art radio technology now available

Also available as an optional extra is a “Bluetooth” telephone. The cordless hand-set works with cutting-edge radio technology and can be used in combination with the fixed-installation car telephone. A mobile phone is also available as an alternative. Both telephones are fitted with a hands-free facility and can be operated using voice commands (LINGUATRONIC), or via buttons on the COMAND screen or multifunction steering wheel.

The mobile office with Internet access and voice control for all functions

As an option, the new COMAND system can be adapted to function as a mobile office, giving the driver and passengers the benefit of WAP Internet access, enabling them to send and receive SMS messages and e-mails, and providing a personal address book function for good measure. Access to the MB Portal will be possible in the near future, as will voice control during a journey, allowing all COMAND functions to be controlled by the driver or front passenger’s voice . The LINGUATRONIC system already available for the telephone and radio will be extended for use with the navigation, TV, Internet, e-mail, SMS and address-book functions in the new COMAND system. There is even a voice recorder on board, allowing short messages to be recorded quickly in much the same way as with a dictating machine.

With this extensive range of new technology and functions, Mercedes-Benz is making an important contribution to road safety, as the driver no longer has to take his hands off the steering wheel or his eyes off the road in order to operate the COMAND system.

The new-generation COMAND system is now available for the E 55 AMG and all other Mercedes-Benz E-Class Saloons.

etenn

I had followed up with the General Manager and also the Owner of the Dealership (who I know) to see if it was possible for them to use their contacts to get us some information. I also had to "remind them that I was waiting for the Navigation" per the email I got from MBUSA

Just to add to the confusion they emailed me back today:

"ED,
JUST RETURNED FROM A MERCEDES MEETING IN OAKLAND, CA WHERE THE NAV AVAILABILITY WAS ONE OF THE TOPICS OF DISCUSSION. UNFORTUNATELY WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE INFO THAN YOU ALREADY HAVE. WILL KEEP YOU UPDATED AS FURTHER INFO ARRIVES! SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE THEY WERE VERY VAGUE ON WHETHER THE SYSTEM WOULD BE AVAILABLE AT ALL. WE'LL KEEP OUR FINGERS CROSSED! "

It is obvious that they are keeping the Dealerships in the dark also. Notice "...they were very vague on whether the system would be available at all.." Very curious.

Ed

drb

etenn, any idea of the identify of the they in the note... " THEY WERE VERY VAGUE" at the " MERCEDES MEETING IN OAKLAND, " ?

etenn

I don't know who was there. This email was sent to me by the General Manager and the Dealership Owner so top dealership management was there. I assume it was a "Dealer" meeting of some sort with MBUSA.
Anyone else have an owner or General Manager they can ask for information? I really don't think it is worth the effort to ask salesmen or the people answering the phone at MBUSA.

Ed

abhansali

The sales manager at my dealership also mentioned a meeting in CA (probably about 1-2 weeks ago??). I'm assuming it was the same thing. However, he said they were saying April production, but he would not promise anything. My sales guy did mention that he had sold a car to someone with promise of Nav, but is not sure they would be able to do that now.

Sounds like the "available at all" is probably referring to retrofit, which would make the answers seem consistent.

potxoli

so just talked to the sales manager at my dealership. He confirmed that MB usa is currently putting together the list of names of folks who prepaid to determine what they will do.
If you prepaid for nav, make sure to call your dealership to check in with them so your name is on this list!

He then went on to tell me what the issue was. He said that it took german engineers 2-3 days to install the retrofit initially and that with upgraded instructions/procedures they got it down to 1 day. MB is concerned as to whether all US dealerships can pull the retrofit off.

So turned out that the retrofit was not plug and play. This I have less of a hard time believing than it can't be retrofitted at all, that seemed odd.

Anyhow, he finished off by saying that it is a top issue for MB and that they will resolve the situation one way or another quickly he believes. Overall he was quite helpful and apologetic, seems like there isn't much the dealers can do.

Another data point for what its worth.

ctouhey

Well, I just called. I haven't bothered my salesperson about the Nav issue as I was pretty confident all along things would turn out just fine.

She said she was glad to hear from me, but the call wasn't necessary. Yes, there is a list and yes, she has already taken care of me, and yes -- this is the best part -- I'm the first one on their list!

drb

My salesman said their navi prepaid list was sent to MBUSA saturday. The salesman heard MBUSA intends to have closure on this navi situation by May. I asked if this meant installaltion by May and the response was do not know.

99ML430

My current lease expires in four weeks and I stopped by the dealership Sat to drive the E again and was told flat out that they are not selling NAV period. No cars coming to be equipped with NAV and no retrofitting period.

I think the dealership was essentially taking the initiative to avoid any confusion or hassle. Bottom line, no NAV available for the E-class.

rayscar

This is a message I got from my dealer today. Seems like MB may be facing a buy back IMO which is not really a bad thing for those of us who prepaid. We've enjoyed our cars during this time and then get a new one with Nav to start over again. That's fine with me.

Message:

Mercedes is trying to come to grips with the size of the problem that
they have created. The current rumor is that the Nav system will not be
retro-fitable at all. I don't know if they have a plan yet-I'll let you
know when I hear.

potxoli

So how does a buyback work exactly? I'm financing my current car. If I ordered the same exact vehicle with exact options etc + NAV, would they simply sway vehicles and give me a new loan?