mike vee

Just some random babble:

I stopped by the dealer to check it out today. I looked at an E350 sport package. It's just a big C class. Period. It looks AWESOME (not so sure about the back) but it retains almost zero of the Mercedes feel that I'm used to as a previous W210 and current W211 owner. That big, heavy THICK feel like you can beat the dash with a baseball bat and not ruin it (mores o on the W210, however...that thing is a tank.)

A while back I got a new C class as a loaner from the dealer, and I said to myself "this thing is pretty cool and sporty, but feels more like a toyota/mazda/audi then a Mercedes...must just be because its the low model" and unfortunately the new E has the exact same feel. The seats were HORRID. Felt like they were made out of rubber. The headlght rotatory knob felt worse than my mothers Chevy blazer delco radio.

Overall the design is really cool but it seems as if the whole build process is completely different these days...and not so much in a good way. The new S has the same kind of styling, but seems built so much better. IT used to be that you had to get at least an E to get a "real" Mercedes...not much you go to at least the S class???

I was not disjointed a bit to get back in my min condition, fully loaded 05 and drive away

NOT TO SAY I WOULDN'T TAKE ONE FOR FREE

westcott

I looked at the new E class when I was in for regular maintenance. I prefer the more rounded look of the 211 series. The squared off front and overlapping hood really makes the side of the car look very busy.

The hard edges really do not do it for me (I prefer my woman with sexy curves and no bra strap and panty line bulges). I also do not like the Mazda wheel wells on the new designs, especially the S class.

mike vee

i like the new design it was just the quality that surprised me...

Vik888

I haven't seen the inside in person so I can't comment on that.

The front looks fine and the photo mike vee posted looks good.

Every single version of the rear end looks bad to me. The standard version, AMG, Brabus, etc. No one can "fix" whats wrong with the rear end, which is too bad.

If I had to buy a $50k-$65k base price car, I would not buy a W212.

K-A

I drove one and posted a detailed Review here:

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...review-me.html

I agree with some of O/P's opinions. I feel the interior does feel sturdy, but lacks certain refinement and fanciness of the W211's. I hate the W204's interior (worst of any M-B's almost ever really), so I hope M-B don't go down that route more and more. I also don't like the way the W212 looks at all, and feel they fumbled the design. But it does drive great, as it should.

mike vee

The interior is very similar to the W204.



it actually looks really sick there though

K-A

Yeah it is noticeably similar. Obviously a step up though. That W204's just looks

I definitely don't dislike the 212's interior as much as I do its exterior personally, but I'm not crazy about the box-cut design of the inside, and prefer the IMO more classy and svelte/fluid approach of the 211's. Also materials in certain areas have been downgraded it seems.

K-A

Also, I'm pretty certain the reason the seats M-B Tex indeed DO feel rubbery (more-so than the M-B Tex W211's I think), is because they don't use the genuine Leather inserts that the non-Leather W211's do? Still haven't seen any hard info saying it's one way or the other though.

The car is $5K cheaper than the W211, so it would make sense they'd cut corners in some of the smaller areas, as that's where M-B chooses to progressively cut back, as we've noticed (or some who have a keen eye at least can notice) through the years.

saintvir

[QUOTE=mike vee;3629637]Just some random babble:

"I stopped by the dealer to check it out today. I looked at an E350 sport package. It's just a big C class. Period."

No surprises there ... the new E 2010 uses a lot of C parts. In fact, the C Coupe's platform is based on the C (Wheelbase - 108.7"). For cost-cutting purposes, Daimler is rationalizing parts across models. Expect to see more parts sharing.

Diesel Benz

[quote=saintvir;3630311]Can you name a few W204 parts on the W212 in addition to bolts and washers? The engine and the tranny can be mostly the same, like on a W221.

The door mirrors are the exact same parts as on a W204 (those that came to the US 204 recently).

Some of the panelling look similar but the parts are different, this does not help with cost-cutting (which can be there in other forms than reusing parts from the W204).

The C207 is a different thing, it is a W204 basically anywhere where the different body parts allow. Not that this would be specifically bad or good, just an observation.

Jen_Kenne

I have not driven one yet, but there are quite a few on the road. I like the nose, but the more I see the rear fenders with the pontoon lines, the less I like the car. That said, we'll probably see this in production for a few years, and then what? (Unless MBZ receives much negative feedback on the looks.)

westcott

I would have to check but I think the E550 is still all leather, where as the E350s are still using the MB Tex exclusively.

erifly

Yeah saw it about 3-4 weeks ago..even wrote a review in the 2010 w211 section

gaazmon

Yes, you are correct. The 550 is leather. However, you barely see any 550s around, even the 07 - 09. There is a lot more 500s vs 550s out there. However, most of the 550s are very loaded out here. I'm just waiting a couple of years and I really want to pick up a CPO 09 white 550 with p2, amg, & pano. I would love it, so beautiful.

Barry45RPM

I like the new E's. The Coupe is much, much nicer in person than it looks on TV, I don't find the interior to be evolutionary, but rather, a look back to the 210's. I much prefer the shifter on the console rather than on the column. The Black wood is still not a favorite of mine... too much like Formica.

Overall, a nice car that does not make the 211 look old, but rather like a different model in the lineup.

K-A

Agreed. And my sentiments exactly on how it doesn't make the 211 look old nor dated, it just looks like a different model with a very different design language. Back in the day, when M-B released a new model, it made the old one look ancient, because they would evolve the look, and the prior generation just reeked of its respective time-period.... This isn't the case with the 211. As well, I don't think the W204 makes the W203 look really dated. I think it's a testament to the designs that recently came from M-B, very timeless, and I think the W211 is the best executed and most refined Sedan design of this most recently-previous M-B design language.

Jen_Kenne

Excellent point.

Jen_Kenne

I believe the V8s come with leather as standard, while it is an upgrade (about $1,500) in the V6 cars.

saintvir

[QUOTE=Diesel Benz;3630339][quote=saintvir;3630311]

Can you name a few W204 parts on the W212 in addition to bolts and washers? The engine and the tranny can be mostly the same, like on a W221.

I posted this article in the W212 forum.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/08/news...tune/index.htm

"Across town in the welding shop at the Sindelfingen plant, you can see the program in action for the new E-Class. Trays with an array of parts are pushed up against the line for robots to grab and fix in place. Look more carefully at the coded identification numbers, and you'll see that some of the parts, such as metal brackets for the engine compartment, are identical to ones already used in C-Class models.

Industry specialists say it's about time Mercedes got serious about economies of scale. Audi and sister company VW were much quicker to spot the potential for cost savings and other efficiencies from sharing the same platforms. Audi's A3, for example, is essentially a rebadged VW Golf. The guts of BMW's 7 Series and 5 Series models also are broadly similar. Its compact 1 Series, meanwhile, is a 3 Series with the back lopped off. "Zetsche is last," says consultant Schmidt. "Mercedes is going for a commonality that you've had for donkey's years elsewhere."

I've also read a review (can't remember which one) that mentioned the front suspension being C vintage (3-way link vs the old 4-way link in the W211). I'll try to find that review again and post a link later.

Going forward, a lot of parts will have specifications identical not just to other Mercedes models' but also to BMWs'. The company is cautious about disclosing much about its joint procurement talks with BMW. Schmckle says he sits down with Herbert Diess, his counterpart at BMW, every couple of weeks to discuss what the two firms might be able to do together in the area of purchasing. As a precaution the talks have been reported to the German antitrust authorities. "The rules are laid down," Schmckle says. The logic is clear: Both companies produce about 1 million cars apiece, making them relative minnows in the auto industry. Both already use many of the same suppliers. And both try to push the envelope with their technology.

saintvir

[QUOTE=saintvir;3632224][QUOTE=Diesel Benz;3630339][quote=saintvir;3630311]

Can you name a few W204 parts on the W212 in addition to bolts and washers? The engine and the tranny can be mostly the same, like on a W221.


I've also read a review (can't remember which one) that mentioned the front suspension being C vintage (3-way link vs the old 4-way link in the W211). I'll try to find that review again and post a link later.[QUOTE]
__________________________________________________ ___

Here it is: a review from Motor Trend magazine.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ive/index.html

This quote is telling:

"A switch to a three-link front suspension improves crash performance, though it required a lot of development driving to ensure the dynamics weren't compromised compared with the more complex previous design. The new suspension also improves component commonality with the C-Class. In fact, Mercedes engineers no longer talk of the C and E being separate platforms. (emphasis added).

Diesel Benz

What you are saying and what the quoted article is saying is that the two are using similar design principles. This is quite true, I don't know if the C-class suspension previously was very different from the previous E-class but the 204 and the 212 suspension are based on very similar principle. This however is no "cost savings through economics of scale", mainly cost savings at R&D. The point being that even if the suspension (be it an example) follows the same principle, there is only a single common part part at the front struts, this is the ball bearing (a generic bearing), every other part is different on the two (different parts, even if they may be similar). This is what I was after, MB has not saved costs by putting C-class parts to the W212 (the C207 is a different story as it is almost completely a W204).

220S

But that is exactly what the first article he posted is saying.

gaazmon

I'm going to play devil's advocate here:

I guess it's just inevitable. Companies can't survive like they used and now they have to cut costs wherever they can to pull a little more profit. The global market has become so demanding and everyone wants results right now due to this whole internet and mobile telecom age. I think thw world is beginning to forget that humans are not machines, and that companies are still run by people not just machines. When a company makes a decision, many lives are a stake and the lives of their families.

MB has been in a big slump and from 06 on, when the decontenting started affecting all the lines, they started to bite back at the market. BMW and Audi had began to sweep the market unlike before. You see tons of the previous 750 out there. For example, the 07+ E class was a big helper with boosting MB in both quality assurance and style. As car enthusiasts, we have a BIG difference in ideas and perspectives from those of the general mass consumers. I mean everyday now I'm beginning to see at least 2 - 3 new E's out there. Maybe it will sell well. I won't buy it probably, but maybe it will sell. The new C class sells very well. Idk, I guess it's just what the mass consumers want that gets put out there cause they have more financial pull due to size. They want newer stuff at a cheaper price. I'm sure the dropping of the MSRP from about 52k to 48k made a difference for the selling point. I mean it will go up again by the time the W212 will be in it's last year, probably at 53K or more.

Just wanted to put that out there. I'm not defending the idea of mixing the lines and sharing everything since that would dilute the brand IMO. I mean some things you can such as engines, trannys, AC units, etc. I mean if you look at a BMW 3, 5, or 6, the interiors are almost identical minus some changes. I'm not for that cause I don't want to have to buy a 6 series and get a 3 series interior with more wood or something. That's what I feel with the new E: it's a C class interior with a couple of more goodies. Also remember, the CL is soon gonna be an S coupe (more sharing).