Hi all!
I was wondering how come mercedes cannot produce the power numbers like BMW's vehicles. The engine size of the M5 and the E500 are the same.. but theres almost a 100 hp difference. Also for the even with BMW 4.4L engines they're pushing 290hp.. while the 500 is only getting 302. IMHO i think mercedes can get more power out of .5L than 12 hp. I don't know the torque differences and gas milage difference.. but would that really make a difference? C'mon mercedes, you guys have engines with larger displacement, whatever happened to the saying "there's no replacement for displacement"? Doesn't seem like mercedes ever heard that one.

Aside from the comparison between BMW... why is mercedes continuing to go with an underpowered 3.2L engine in their cars. With only 221 hp, this engine is one of the most underpowered in its class. The same 3.2L displacement is used in the Acura NSX (i know please don't flame me because I compared a benz to a japanese car) and that baby puts out 290hp. Finally, is there really gonna be a change for the E class to the new 350 (3.7L) engines, and is merc gonna fiddle with the engine some more and not just drop in the engine from the ML. The ML engine should have more torque than the sedan engines IMO. Well, it finally seems like it's over... or maybe just beginning... i'll wait and see

 

You have made the mistake of comparing the E500 to the M5. You will find that if you look at the figures for the E55 AMG vs. M5 that the E55 is infact the more powerful of the two and the fastest production sedan from 0-60. You must also recognize that these vehicles are produced for a global market. In Europe and asia the most popular models are in fact the smaller engined variants especially the diesels. I the UK 55% of S-Classes sold were diesels. I think if you actually drive an E320 that the engine provides that vehicle with more than sufficient propulsion.

 

Disagree on the E320 engine being under powered. You have to keep in mind the application to a luxury car. The NSX engine with 290 horsepower also makes that power at 7100rpm, not something you'd like to do in a luxury sedan. Also torque is a consideration.

BMW 530 specs:

Horsepower: 225 hp
Max Horsepower: 5900 rpm
Max Torque: 214 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 3500 rpm

E320 Specs:

Horsepower: 221 hp
Max Horsepower: 5600 rpm
Max Torque: 232 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 3000 rpm

NSX numbers

Horsepower: 290 hp
Max Horsepower: 7100 rpm
Torque: 224 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 5500 rpm




So the E class has more torque at lower RPM than both NSX and BMW. Makes it quicker off the line and makes it seem like it pulls harder when passing etc.

The E320 engine is an excellent engine for the application.

 

He is comparing normally aspirated engines of similar size, so that's a sorta fair comparison. Then again, it's not, since BMW makes much better engines so there's nothing to compare to
Especially considering that BMW's 4.4 engine is old, and the new one, 4.5 which will replace 4.4, makes 325hp :p

As for comparing E55 to M5 - E55 is supercharged. Slap a supercharged on M5 and it will become similarly quick and still remain a much better drivers car.

So yeah, even though MB 5 liter engine is good, it looses in comparison.
But then again, all these HP figures mean nothing in real world. I'm pretty sure that E500 is as fast if not faster than current 540. Handling is a different story altogether, but that's the way it should be.

 

This is true; no engine explodes quite the same way as an M3 engine.

 

Sorry, but IMHO this is a really dumb thread. You don't compare cars by HP numbers any more that you do prospective spouses by the size of their, well, whatever (we're assuming Trista went with "style" in picking Ryan).

The focus should be on the total driving experience: the smoothness and responsiveness of acceleration, the handling characteristics, and the interior ambience. While the first two attributes are very personal to each driver, the BMW 5 series is no comparison to the new M-B E class in terms of how nice the cabin is.

I spent plenty of time driving a BMW 5 before making my decision. Personally, the 540 accelerated and handled great but with a little too much road noise for my taste, and a really dull interior... whereas the E500 was a quieter and more elegant driving experience. I chose the M-B after 5 test drives of each manufacturers' cars.

So my comparison was a little more than how much HP an engine produces.

Just calling it the way I saw (and still see) it...

 

You're all right. Yes, the E320 could have more torque - hey, what car couldn't. But it also has plenty for normal and quite sporty use.

One thing they could improve is faster downshifts and better throttle response - I have to use the 'manual' downshifts all the time. But not a big deal. This car is fine.

 

Gee, let's see... we have members with a distinct preference for BMWs on a Benz board professing the joys of BMW's engines.

Troll, anyone?

P.S. Say thanks to Chris for me for making my switch away from the Roundel so much easier since he's been making such FUGLY cars lately!

 

Well, I think we take a much more balanced view if you read all the posts. Power is fine - plus, a car is a hell of a lot more than just power.

I used to drive a BMW 520 some years ago and you know what, that had MUCH less power than I now have in my C320 and yet I never minded. It had enough. In Europe, people drive these big cars with 1.8 and 2l engines, or smallish diesels.

Michael

 

Well.. i see that the arguments made here are pretty ranged... but as i think about it... i would have to agree with MadManAboutTown.... no this thread isn't stupid.. i was just comparing the HORSEPOWER and hp alone -- not torque or look on interior or anything else-- between the mb NA engines and the BMW NA engines.... but as MadManAboutTown so eloquently put it

Yes, how great a car should be based only on the TOTAL driving experience, not speed, acceleration, or anything that is one-sided. So, after a huge debate here... i'm calling it off. Horsepower is a one-sided issue... and therefore cannot be the only factor to compare cars... or even engines for that matter. Yes BMWs engines are stronger, yes MBs interiors (and it looks like exteriors) are better than BMW... but the final decision is each one to their own taste

 

Lots of good points. At the end of the day, manufactures make decisions related to the 'value proposition' of each line. Historically, BMW was sportier and quicker while MB was more luxurious and stable. As MB gets sportier in many of its lines, I think that they will have an increased focus on horsepower and performance. A good example is there very quick change from the e320 to the e350.

As far as comparisons go, car manufacturers, especially MB and BMW, compete line by line. For example.

530 - E320
540 - E500
M5 - E55

The engines are important but only part of the comparision equation. It all gets down to dollars Vs. dollars in the competive categories, there are trade offs on where the money is spent, but they need to be CLOSE in MSRP.

 

I have both and I think skymast's point is correct

we are spoiled by the cheap gas in US. I just came back from vacation and I saw the mb in Singapore. most of e are 200 or 240, the top of e is 320, there is no e500 in Sinapore. for s class, you will see 280 or 320, the big engine is not popular in most of countries. if our gas price goes to 3 bucks per gallon, you may think twice to have a BIG engine. (other than money's sake, for our environment's sake, try to take exact you need from our previous resources.)

 

Gas prices are generally higher in other parts of the world because they tax it more than we do. The cost refining is basically the same. As far as resources, did you know that there are more oil known reserves today than we had twenty years ago? We will move on to a new energy technology before we run out of oil.

 

Agreed.

 

As a case in point, witness the poor UK, where fuel costs can run as high as US$5.90 a gallon, of which over SEVENTY PERCENT is tax! Even here in the US, we pay a good portion of fuel cost as taxes. Here in Texas, 38.4 cents/gallon are tax, 18.4 cents of that being federal tax and 20 cents being state tax. At $1.60 a gallon, that's almost 25%. I tend to laugh when I hear people screaming about 'greedy oil companies'. The federal and state governments definitely have their hands out as well.

 

The W210 E320 came in 1996 with 217Hp then in 1998 moved to 221 from 1998 until present.

BMW owners were probably complaining about the under powered cars a few year ago also. Their main competitor to the Mercedes E320 was the 528i from 1997 to 2000 with a measly 190HP.