vettdvr

If I read the manual correctly the W212? goes to 10,000 mile service on the FSS for oil vs the current 13,000 and the fuel filter is extended to 150,000 service?

Can't help but how is this different on my E500 2003 and why if they have the same base engine and fuel filter?

So the real question is should for the W211 E series should the oil change freq. be reduced to 10,000 as in the new owners manual? If so why was it change in 2010 from 13,000 to 10,000. This would seem to be going the wrong way unless there are some failures we aren't seeing.?



Note ref the MB site for the information on 2010 as source of the information.

MBtech1098

A 2003 E500, and a 2010 E550 do not have the same engine, the block and everything are completely different. Also any in tank fuel filter was upped to 150k, because it is part of the pump assy. In 2010 it is no longer know as Flexible Service, because the car no longer computes needed services. All services are based on the required and additional recommended services at 10k intervals.

vettdvr

Guess that is why it needs more frequent oil changes. Doesn't sound very environmentally friendly when it uses more oil due to shorter cycles. Guess they must be using a bigger filter with smaller micron size.

K-A

I might be misunderstanding, but do you mean that the '10's don't tell you when service is needed, via the digital readout?

MBtech1098

No they tell, you, but it is all pre-determined (ie: 10,000 miles) fixed interval, not flexible.

MBtech1098

Same oil filter is used, they realized that 13k intervals was not such a good idea.

220S

Yeah, not a good idea in my book, either. (And esp. since I do drive it fairly hard and have used it in a few DEs on the track. )

Despite having FSS in my MB, I've always used a pre-determined (7.5k tucked away in my head) interval for my oil changes with all my cars.

lkchris

BS

The official interval for the same engines is something like 19K in Europe.

MBUSA has lowered the interval for USA cars for no other reason than politics, i.e. all the oil change geniuses that exist here.

vettdvr

AMEN Finally. I believe you have the correct answer. Political not engineering science.

If existing engines, (I have run at least 3 vehicles at least 400000+ miles going 12000-16000 on synthetic with NEVER an engine failure).

So what is the real engineering reason. Micron size larger. Can't get the materials for base stock. Engines using less wear resistant parts. What is the reason. Nothing other than "Bubba says do it or I won't cover warranty".

But then I don't know from nuttin.!

Also if it has to be 10,000 why wasn't a service warning issued for cars under warranty (mine) still following the FSS at 13,000 miles. I am going 13,000 miles and it is under warranty and covered.

O enough of my , but I hate wasting my time getting oil changes when they are only to green up the dealer pocket, and no engineering support other than Bubba said so!

MBtech1098

Yes but you lack the understanding that Europe and USA have 2 completely different road systems, which creates different driving characteristics. Which is why every country has different service requirements.

If you recall the SBC campaign on the 211 when it first came out, the campaign was initiated due to brake failures of taxi's in Europe, and at the time of it's release, we had not seen many if any failures in the US.

Not to mention previous class action lawsuits against MBUSA due to sludging, and yes with Mobil 1. So tell yourself what you will.

fortlaudsummer

3000 miles x # of cars sold in USA in 2009 /10k x 2 x $90-170 = a lot of extra revenue for MBUSA (even if you factor in the $ of owners who utilize independent shops)

lkchris

I understand it enough to know any differences are meaningless.

MBtech1098

Like I said...

220S

Despite what MB says and despite what anybody else says, we should all just change our oil the way we see fit. So if you are happy with 13k+ OCIs then that's perfectly okay. But if you drive hard and do track events (hey, I change the oil and brake fluid after each event in my Porsche) or live in crappy, dusty, dirty environments and/or do stop and go pizza deliveries in a major metro region, then change the oil more often if you prefer.

The only way you will know for certain what the condition of your oil is in, is with an oil analysis. I did it with my last two changes on the AMG and the first one wasn't too good. In the end, each person's experience with what works for them is based on the mfg's recommendation, their own personal perceptions about motors and lubricants, and their past experience with their own individual motors. But analyzing the oil is the only real way of knowing what's going on (it's easy and not expensive to do, btw.)

The suggested OCI by MBUSA or Daimler AG or God or somebody on the internet, is simply a generalization. And so for the majority the recommendation is fine (whatever it is at whatever moment; EPA and emission regs change often.) But don't tell some of us who do test their oil and have much different driving experiences and/or conditions what to do, either. Plus not everybody is putting money in the dealer's pocket. DIY and it's just the $$ for filters and oil.

fwiw, this guy builds some of the best aircooled cylinders available. He also knows lubrication: http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

vettdvr

SUPERB ANSWER!

It's my car and I can change oil when I want. And for my E500 I have been doing it at 13,000 miles and now pushing 100000 miles and the engine still performs like it the day I drove it from the showroom. Granted only MB approved oil and filters. But I see no reason the 2010 can't do the same thing, unless the engine has high wear materials now internally.

Boulder GT3

Do you have any of the reports you can post from the 63? I really think oil analysis is the only thing that brings some foundation to the discussion.

I had one done on a 5.5MB V-8 at 10K and the oil checked pretty much as new. Viscosity very good, metals, dirt and water negligible. I don't have a copy on this machine.

A little off topic, but I just had analysis done on 3 diesels and and I could have run the motors another 50 hours. I think the new lubes and filters are just better and 10K with normal driving is safe. I still change at 7500 or 1yr on the cars.

220S

I'll have to scan and post a pdf of it. But the issue for me on that first test was excessive fuel dilution and soot, and water. Viscosity was just slightly lower than the oil's TBN and it had some reduced elements (esp zinc.) Apparently the problem was that the car was bought new as a left over 2009. The build date was June 2008 and the in-service date was May 2009. So the car had been sitting with the break-in oil for almost a year. And during that year the car had been moved around the lot once in a while (it had 25 miles on it when I took delivery.) Not good for the motor nor the oil. Short intervals are not good. Motors like to be run. The oil deterioration was primarily from just sitting (also not good for oil.) If I had left it in the sump based on mileage alone, I'd have problems.

If your car is used for short trips and/or not used much then change it more often. Although changing too often is not good, either. Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages providing the oil's properties have not deteriorated to be damaging to the motor (and that's what the UOA data will provide.)

But here's the bottom line on doing UOAs, imho. Do a few tests. OCIs are best determined by an UOA based on your own personal driving habits. Compare the results with the oil's TBN (base numbers; these numbers are available for each brand of oil.) If there is a big change from the TBN, then that will help determine your OCIs. By doing this a few times, you'll get the picture based on your own driving habits and environment, and will have peace of mind.

p.s., for the record, I changed the break-in oil right away because it had been sitting for almost a year (and the analysis recommended changing it.) And then I just recently changed it again at 8k (after two pretty "mild" DE events at the track.) Second test was very close to the TBN, so 8k is no problem obviously. I'm out of cycle with FSS anyway and so I'll do another change all depending on what kind of driving and where (no out-in-the desert runs scheduled yet, LOL)

MBtech1098

For those interested in oil analysis, Amsoil provides this as does most Caterpillar dealers, they usually have an oil lab on site.

Boulder GT3

I use Blackstone. $27 and a decent commentary about what they see with the motor.