ksing44

I am looking for a new car. I have been driving a 1995 E320 for 13-years, but I think it is time to move on. I was considering getting away from Mercedes with a new car and trying a 2010 Golf TDI. I really want a diesel and the 6-speed manual is great in the 2010 Golf TDI. The 2010 Golf TDI also comes with a sport suspension and other tweaks that make it fun to drive. Even with all of the tweaks, however, of course it isn’t like driving in a E-Class Mercedes.

It occurred to me that I should at least consider a used Mercedes diesel. I checked on the Internet and it looks like a 2005 CDI could definitely be had for the price of a new 2010 Golf TDI, maybe a 2006 too. The 2007 Bluetech might be a bit more than the new Golf TDI, but I wondered if it might be worth the extra cost to get into the bluetech.

I definitely prefer the look of the facelift in the 2007 W211. I sounds like the change occurred late in 2006, but all of the 2006 CDI cars I found on the Internet appeared to be pre-facelift. So there is the question, what are the pros and cons of 2007 facelifted Bluetech W211 vs. 2005 or 2006 CDI W211.

Polar Bear

I would recommend a 2007 as they have implemented several improvements over the years with the W211 and it seems like in 2007 they pretty much perfected them. I have not heard any issues with the 2007 personally - the 2006 has an EGR issue that comes up occasionally.

A few pros and cons of the different models:

2005- available in 2004 so warranty is going to be expired on most unless you get a CPO. Most options available on these models including Dynamic Seats, Ventilated Seats, REST feature on A/C on early models, right mirror tilt while in reverse. Can be had with many options but these cars are hard to locate (Xenon headlamps, Keyless-Go, Navigation, Trunk Closer - also can be found on 2006) - Inline 6-cyl, 5-speed auto.

2006- No dynamic seats or ventilated seats, no REST on A/C, Instrument Cluster menus have some options removed. One might say some issues are fixed in 2006 but for the most part they are identical to the 2005 other than what is listed. Same engine/transmission as 2005.

2007- Facelift model with updated appearance. Most bugs fixed. New V6 for US with few problems reported. 7 speed transmission that may provide better MPG and overall larger area for torque. Some people have reported some issues with this transmission but I personally haven't dealt with any. Most are going to be prewired for a cellphone and have navigation drive in trunk since most come with P1 or Premium 1 package. Will also have power rear sunshade and heated seats. Premium 2 (P2) package adds Keyless-Go and Bi-Xenon headlamps to P1). No Dynamic Seats or Ventilated Seats.


If it were me - I would look for a 2007 CPO with Premium 2 package. I have a 2005 and love the Diesel engine, but since the warranty is pretty important I would get a 2007 CPO.

ksing44

Thank you for the reply. I am going to test drive a low mileage 2006 tomorrow. The 2006 is a CPO and it is very close to home. The 2007 does sound nice, but I found a 2006 close to home. There are 2007 cars available quite farther from home, so if I don't like the 2006 I may look much harder for a 2007. I definitely like the looks of the 2007.

It sounds like there is a bit of a maintenance tradeoff between 2006 and 2007, with EGR for the prior and the urea injection for the later. There is also the straight-6 cast iron vs. V6 aluminum debate.

Polar Bear

Actually there is no urea injection on any W211 diesel. Even though they are called Bluetec, they use SCR instead of urea injection. Expect urea for the 2011 E-class diesel.

ksing44

I will have to search SCR. I don't know what that is.

Polar Bear

Here is a comparison...

http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyoune...ag_BLUETEC.htm

The AdBlue is found in the ML and GL but not in the E (yet).

I should clarify the article is incorrect as the 2008 AdBlue version never made it to the US in the E. The 2009 Bluetec was the same as the 2007 - all with SCR and no AdBlue

jditom

05-06 CDI have a inline 6, slightly better mpg and no diesel particulate filter.
07+ have a V6, 7 speed tranny, sl increase in HP, quieter.
Nice to drive both, I love mine.
I agree that 05-06 can be had for the price of a new VW.
I was going to get a Jetta sport wagon TDI but I found a used CDI and it was so much more in ever way then the VW.

gaazmon

o/t but i love your signature

the 07s are usually better off, generally speaking, quality wise. the 06s are very solid as well, with the 05s being good too. i would say the 03-04 are the worse, but you have no need to worry about those. however, like others have said, you can find way more options on 06, and even more on the 05. IMO, the 04s had the best options and best warranty (i had free maintenance, last year MB had that). if your tighter on budget, an 05 or 06 can be had for a way better deal than an 07. also with 07, you get facelifted look and no SBC (sensotronic brakes).

the general problem with the 7 speed is the 1 to 2 or 2 to 1 shift. can be avoided by putting car in C mode (all 2010 MBs and up start the car in C mode no matter what preference you kept when car was on before).

ksing44

Thank you all for your valuable input. I think I understand Bluetech versions, although it is a bit complicated. I guess sensotronic brakes are complicated too. There seems to be no way to avoid the more complicated systems in newer cars, which was part of the attraction in going to a 6-speed manual Golf TDI.

The test drive today in the 2006 CDI should help me understand what I really want to own. If I love the CDI, it may be all over for the Golf TDI. Fortunately there is a VW dealer almost next door to the Benz dealer that has the CDI. The VW dealer just received a 4-door TDI with a 6-speed. I think I will plan to drive the cars back to back. That should settle things, at least for Benz vs. VW. I will still have the 2006 vs. 2007 question, but I think that will likely turn out to be more about cost than the driving experience.

ksing44

After reading quite a bit, I think I may get scared off from the 2006 because of the SBC (sensotronic brakes). Mercedes actually removed them in the next generation facelift, so that pretty much says it all. Even Mercedes doesn't like the system. I read they offer a 10-year guarantee, just to appease all of the complaints.

It is a darn shame, because I think I would have preferred the inline-6 motor. I would have also appreciated the lower price for a used 2006 vs. a 2007 with about the same low mileage. I do prefer the looks of the 2007 car with the facelift, but unfortunately it seems that neither car may be perfect for me. I am still going to take a drive in the 2006, just to see if I really want another E-Class Benz.

If it wasn’t for the sensotronic thing, I think I really might have purchased the 2006 right away. As it is, I’m not sure what to do. I really didn’t want to spend as much as it looks like it will cost to get into the 2007 Bluetech. Since I am not really in a rush, I guess I can just wait a while and surf the Internet to find the perfect 2007. There may be more and more available as time goes on.

jditom

SBS has not bothered me.
I seems to be a pain for some.
Both times I disconnected the SBS to replace the pads and then to bleed the brakes. Easy. I also did my own tranny service which you cannot do on the 07 without the MB computer.

Good Luck

gaazmon

to be honest, i have never had problems with the system either. i've had it replaced once under warranty. also with the 06s, i think the system was better off since there was only 1 recall vs like 3 for the 03-05.

007_e350

Can you help - I'm trying to disconnect the electrical connection to SBC - You lift the top plastic piece and then how to pull the connector out ? The top seems to be latched into a non-openable bracket ... I dont wanna snap anything ya know

thanks

Polar Bear

If I am not mistaken, when you pull back the plastic latch, it should push the connector out. If it has dust in and around the mechanism, it will be hard to move the first time.

Ronaldk

In our household we own a 2004 E200 kompressor and a 2009 E220 CDI (Both 4 cylinder models). Although the face lifted version had less issues and some tweaks it is also apparent that some cost cutting has filtered through during the "Facelift". Examples of these cosmetic downgrades: chrome finishing removed in rear ashtrays, shelf in cubby discontinued, no trim in trunk lining around hinges, poorer perceived quality headlining. Feature wise there has been a removal of exterior puddle lighting, automatic airbag deactivation in passenger seat with baby seat installed, xenon wash button, SBC stop (at stop-and-go traffic the ability to stop car automatically when releasing gas pedal) etc. Panel gaps are much smaller on 2004 model. The biggest advantage of the 2004 model over the 2009 is the SBC brakes. The SBC has a much more consistent and confidence inspiring feel. There is no fade and it surely has superior performance. Fortunately the SBC has never missed a beat so we did not experience the reliability issues as some other posters mentioned. It may just be bad publicity.

The biggest plus to the face lifted version would be the steering assistance (much lighter to steer and more precise). Two sensitivity options on the rain sensor and updated command APS (brids'eye view, bluetooth adaptor ready, digital clock for centre area), and ability for the car to apply brakes when using the cruise control. Is also boast a cluster light to notify when the headlights are on (the latter two additions was present since 2006 model at least) . It has tyre pressure monitoring (only in the event of fast pressure loss) and was only an option (although more comprehensive) in the pre-facelifted editions. The CDI engine bay has got additional covers for protection of the fuse and pollen filter area's.

I would advise to go with what you like more. Buying second means you have to evaluate each car on its own value.

lkchris

There is ZERO reason to fear the SBC brakes.

The problems were just some little niggles that were fixed under warranty, never to reoccur.

In any event, the warranty on SBC has been extended to 10 years.

Owning both, I'd note the inline 6 is VERY crude compared to the V6--it stinks and it's noisy. There is zip/zero/nada diesel smell from the V6 and it's quiet and more powerful. Although it didn't come to USA until 2005, the inline six dates to 1998, making it an 8-year older design than the V6.

ksing44

Thank you gain for all of the helpful comments. I will be taking the test drive in a nice looking CPO 2006 today at about 3:00 PM EST.

nopcbs

Last year in April I was in the same boat as you: new Jetta TDI Sportwagon or used diesel Merc 2006 or 2007 Merc. With a supplier discount and the $1400 federal incentive and sales tax write-off, the loaded Jetta was slightly cheaper, but not a whole lot and they were impossable to find locally. So I did my Autotrader search and found an 18,000 mile 2006 E320 CDI 900 miles away and bought it.

The cost difference of 2006 vs. 2007 was not an issue to me, it was not that much. However, God intended diesels to have cast iron blocks, that in-line six has been around a good long time and in-line six is about as good as you get for smoothness (yeah, yeah, I know about the crutch of balance shafts), and the BluTec V6 while slightly more powerful is, in truth, no quicker and it gets worse mileage. The single big plus for the V6 is the particulate filter...I do see a puff of soot on hard acceleration.

As for styling, taste is taste, but to me there is exactly nothing to choose between the two model years. Both are pleasant enough, but unexceptional in styling and nothing to write home to mom about. I think if you buy either one and put a nice set of wheels on it and bigger tires, it will look better than any standard 2006 or 2007, anyway, by a lot. Either car NEEDS nice boots to make it more than OK.

So far, my only pronlem with the car was it had a case of the AC system fungus smell that was fogged out by the dealer with some of that Wynn's spray Merc recommends.

Best mileage I got was 38.5 mpg at a steady 70 mph with AC on. In the city, I get 22-24 in stop/go driving. That's all true measured mileage, not the lies that the trip computer tells you, especially about city mileage.

I think that if I had been willing to spend an extra $10,000 at the time, I would have gone for a used BMW 335d. They seem to get quite a bit better mileage and have more power as well. Handle better, too, but a bit smaller. That's a God-fearing in-line six, too.

Anyway, I am satisfied with the E320 CDI I got, overall.

Whatever you get, make sure it is cpo and buy the extra 2 years of extended warranty at cost from your dealer. If they will not give you that, walk away.

- nopcbs

ksing44

I drove the 2006 CDI. It was an impressive vehicle, but I just couldn’t shake the bad feelings about signing up to pay the maintenance and repair bills. The difference in cost to purchase a slightly used 2006 CDI vs. a new 2010 Golf TDI is really not so great, but I don’t think I can bring myself to sign up for actually owning the Mercedes. It just makes me cringe thinking about paying thousands in maintenance and repairs.

If I hadn’t been down the road once already in a slightly used E-Class, I might be thinking that the cars are so well made that they last virtually forever without breaking, especially with a diesel. As it is, I know the cars don’t last any longer than other cars and they cost much more to maintain. You know the CDI I looked at already had quite a number of “Warranty” repairs listed on the documents. Edmunds seems to have that all very well calculated.

From Edmunds 5-year ownership Calculation
Based on15K miles/year, but I will drive 25K/ year so my cost will be considerably higher, especially in the Mercedes.

2006 CDI
Maintenance: $5,140
Repairs: $8,333
Total: $13,473/5 = $2694/year

2010 Golf TDI
Maintenance: $1,936
Repairs: $1,038
Total: $2974/5 = $594/year

With the Golf, there was also about a $2000 savings from decreased fuel consumption. My savings will be considerably more because I will be driving so many miles.

On the side of the 2006 CDI, I have to say the Mercedes is truly a different class of vehicle compared to the VW. As someone said in another post, it really may be too much car for me. There is nothing simple about the car when you get in for a drive. It feels wonderful, but to me it also felt suffocating from being overly complicated and overly opulent. The VW Golf TDI has a much simpler feeling, maybe more like a bicycle, but in a way that is very comforting. My old 1995 E320 has a simpler feeling about it too, although the reality is that even my 1995 E320 is a bit too complicated for a typical independent mechanic or handyman.

I have to admit I am disappointed about discovering that I will probably not buy another E-Class. I guess it really does come down to something as simple as being willing to pay to play. I guess I am just not willing to pay. Actually, it is a little humbling in a way, to face the fact that I don’t have so much money that I can feel comfortable throwing it away just so I can commute to work in a fancy car. The reality is that commuting 25K/year is just going to run any car I buy right into the ground. Even with my home paid for, my son’s paid-in-full college fund tucked away, and no other bills at all, I just don’t think I can bring myself to spend the extra money on the Mercedes.

Thank you all for helping me with your valuable insight about the cars.

mtrevelino

With using your vehicle as a commuter vehicle and putting approximately 25k per year on it, I would go with the Golf TDI. You cannot beat the 45 plus mpg compared to 36 mpg with the e320.
Since you may be buying the VW, have you checked with Chris at VW at Langhorne, PA. He is suppose to give great deals on TDI's. Also, I assume that you have checked out the following TDI forum at:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/
Good luck with your choice and report back to us with whatever you get.
Mike...

nopcbs

...those 5 year Edmunds cost seem excessive for the Merc.

First of all, go back one year to when I bought my 2006 E320CDI and it had 1.5 years of warranty left to which I added 2 years of extended warranty for $1250 and I ended up with 3.5 years of factory warranty out to 100,000 miles. A new VW comes with three years of warranty (and, yes you can extend that, too). My intent is to let the car prove itself over 2.5 years and if it is a maintenance headache (no signs whatsoever of that, yet) I sell it with a year of warranty remaining.

I think that the Edmund's maintenance cost estimate is high, as I say, but they for sure assume you have your work done at a MB dealer and there is absolutely no reason to do that, certainly not after you are out of warranty. An independent will save you a lot.

Finally, do not kid yourself about the VW. VW/Audi has some of the worst reliability records around. I have had to listen to a lot of moaning from a friend who bought a Passat a few years back and came to regret it for that reason. Last year some of the car mags got Jetta TDI's for long term tests and those year-of-ownership reports are coming back with the Jetta's showing what one magazine referred to as typical VW creaks and rattles being present after only a year. Also, in acceleration, the TDI is a bit of a slug compared to either the CDI or the BluTec and certainly it is a smaller car, though probably adequate.

Another thing is that the TDI is poorly mated to the 6-speed manual (lots of shifting required with a not very pleasant shifter and clutch - tried that combo 2x last year) and the DSG, while it requires no shifting by you, seems to be pretty brain dead and not nearly as easy to live with as it seems at first impression, in long-term use.

I think you may want to consider a Ford Fusion hybrid over the Jetta TDI sedan. A friend has had one about a year and so far, so good...other than cold weather (Michigan) having sent the mileage way down on his short work commute. (Diesels suffer big time in terms of mileage in cold weather, too.) I think the Feds still throw a lot of money at you to buy one of those.

Sure wish that Honda or Subaru had come through with selling diesel cars in the U.S. Would be nice to have some more choices...ones that we could assume would be bullet proof for a long time. As it stands, we have only German brands, only, none of which are paragons of reliability and low cost to own once out of warranty. A pity.

Anyway, good luck to you.

- nopcbs

ksing44

Thank you, Yes I already joined the forums at TDIClub and VWvortex. I also already contacted Chris, although we have not gotten to actual price for my specific car. That Chris is certainly well known. He must sell so many cars that he can afford to sell for a little less than everyone else, or he sells the cars for a litlle less so he sells a lot of cars. Either way, it does sound like Chris is the guy to talk to buy a VW.

ksing44

I did ask about the extended warranty. My dealer wanted almost 4 times as much as what you quoted. The car I drove also had 6 months left on the original factory warranty and the CPO added another year. Like you I could sign up for just 2.5 years and then sell. The issue there is that I know I would take a beating selling the car privately or worse trading the car on another vehicle. I would likely lose even more than the maintenance costs by buying and then selling.

Also interesting was that the depreciation cost for a used 2006 CDI and the new 2010 Golf TDI were very similar for a 5-year period as calculated by Edmunds. So the idea that a new car would depreciate faster seems not to apply when considering a used Mercedes. Regarding maintenance costs, in the first 3 years/36K miles, all VW maintenance is FREE, so there are absolutely no extra costs to owning the new 2010 VW Golf TDI for at least 3 years or 36K miles. For me that will probably be only about 2 years, but it is still significant.

There is no way around it. The Mercedes would cost much more to own. For some it may be worth the expense. It is a very nice car, in a totally different league than the VW, but I think I would feel like I was just throwing away money.

gaazmon

depreciation wise, i think the pre-facelifts have already taken the big hit. the 07-09 would have more room to go in regards to depreciation.

Badfish

I too went through the new TDI, vs other used car opportunities. After driving the TDI wagon with manual trans, I was just not impressed. Also not impressed with how they look outside and inside. When I bought my 2006 W211, I did not know about any complaints about the brakes. My biggest concern about going all the way with a MBZ was the automatic trans (I am a stick guy). Also all the electronics.

So far everything has been great with the 2006. I dont think the facelift did anything great. I do however regret not thinking of going diesel E320. Although I dont think they were sold here in CA. I would have loved to have the opportunity to go with a true iron MBZ diesel. As far as diesels go, I too say "stay with iron". All this amped up, high reving diesels concern me for the long term longevity that they were intended for.

On the other hand, a friend at work got a new 2010 TDI. I got a chance to look it over, and for a VW, it seemed to be built very solid and had a great looking Nav with built in traffic info and all.

I think either way you go......Diesel is a winner.