Agree. That is how the 01 Command worked.

 

I hope this will clear up everyones confusion. I myself ordered the Command when I picked up my car so I can understand everyones frustrations.

2 weeks ago, MBUSA contacted each dealer to submit a list of all clients that have paid for the Nav system. My dealer submitted 19 paid and 16 clients that are interested. I am in daily contact with Ed McRae, our Market Manager for the newest info on the Nav.

As soon as I have more info, I will post it for all of you.

 

I also agree,I think the current display can handle it.

I have however not heard of Heads Up Display for the new E Class Wagon though. Where did you read this?

In Australia we do not have the Teleaid system so this may be why our version may be one of the first DVD COMAND's fitted from the factory and offer retrofits before places like the U.S which use it.

 

Andy...If you have been following these threads in regard to the navigation, you will know that we all have been in close contact with our Service and General Managers at our dealerships. They get the same brush off... "let you know something later".... that we get when we contact MBUSA. It seems that each one gets a different aswer when they check up with whatever source they may have. I just talked with the factory rep for this area yesterday and he has no more information than any of us have.

Maybe your guy has a special contact with someone who actually knows what is going on. However, I really doubt it as no one else at a dealership anywhere in the US has been able to help us.

Maybe working at the dealership will help, but I have not seen any evidence that you can get any more than we have.

Ed

 

I think "able" is the wrong word. Try "willing". Many or most people at most dealerships may very well not know anything regarding the status of the navi issue. But I would bet that that is by design. There is no way in hell that this issue could be kept secret if the dealers really wanted answers. I really believe that MBUSA and the dealers are duping their customers and if I were you guys, I wouldn't take it any longer.

As I said, I have not taken delivery on an E-class specifically because of this navi issue. I would not accept the salesman's excuse of "I do or did not know". What I do know is that they are in the business of selling cars and bad news is bad news, but no news is good news. That way, they can keep on selling cars and dangle the navi carrot on a stick.

This navi issue is not a US government Top Secret. It is nothing more than information regarding the status of an automobile option. There are people on this planet that have the answers. The dealers could very well demand an answer, but then why would they when the obvious answer up til now would have been, "delay", or "no go". Bad news hurts sales, no news is good news.

That's why if I had a car waiting on navi, I would pursue a class-action lawsuit. It would not be the first time MBUSA has had to deal with a class-action suit. In fact, they seem to be getting used to them in recent years. Look up the MBUSA/New York area dealer collusion lawsuit.

If people don't do anything, they will treat you whichever way they want.

 

In my humble opinion, the threat of any action is not likely to cause MB to reveal the nature of the problem.

The less information they provide, the better they can protect themselves from class actions.

If they refund deposits placed for NAV they will excuse themselves from any liability they may have assumed.

If they were to publicly reveal anything, it would be a liability for them, if it is later found difficult or impossible to fulfill a retrofit.

 

I think you are totally wrong on the issue of relief of liability by simply refunding the money we have paid when we took delivery of our cars.

I would not have purchased this car if they had not shown me a memo from MBUSA stating that the car would be prewired and that the navigation would be available in the first quarter (verbally from MBUSA reps it was January). This constitutes enticement. I do not have the car I paid for. I would have purchased a LX430 if MBUSA had not assured me that the navaigation was to be available.

Simply giving me my money back won't work. I don't want the money....I want the car equipped as I ordered and paid for. Any other solution leaves me with a 65K car that does not suit my needs.

For those that the navigation is not important, this may seem trivial but there are many of us to which it was a condition of purchase.

Ed

 

I agree that MB should be obligated to do more than just refund deposits, but I don't believe they have any legal obligation to do so.

Does anyone think MB is legally required to deliver NAV as advertised?

For those of us who don't see NAV as such a critical accessory, but would very much like to have anyway, what would the rest of you say is the most important reason for having NAV?

For me a car is for driving.

Without NAV I still really enjoy my car.

With NAV I can't imagine that I would be any more satisfied.

That said, I hope that MB does have an answer soon.

Additionally, please don't take my comments as inflammatory, I'm just expressing, what I hope is an objective opinion.

 

ABSOLUTELY! It was advertised, promised and paid for up front (by many people)

Its level of importance is subjective and is not the point. The point is, many people consider it as being an essential part of the car and would not have purchased the car without the prospect of having it. It could just as well be a cigarette lighter. It was advertised, promised, and (in many cases) paid for.

 

Consider this. You are considering buying a new car. An option on that car is important to you. The option is important to the buying decision and you are assured by the Car Maker that the option will be available and in fact you should pay for it in advance. Based on this assurance you do not buy another brand which has the option you feel is a very important part of the car.

You now have a car you do not want and MB is saying sorry about that.

How can that not be legally required. It would not be a long stretch by a very good attorney to make it into a fraud case with the written documentation in the form of the "memo to dealers".

 

While I understand where you are coming from. etenn has a point. Nav may not be an essential option to you, but think of an option that is. Say, Parktronic. To me this feature is AS critical as Nav. I would NEVER buy another MB without Parktronic. If they said to me, well it isn't available yet, but will be in two months, I will buy the car. If they said never, I would never purchase the vehicle.

The point is that different options have a varying level importance to different customers. Just because one person finds that his driving experience is no less enjoyable for the lack of Nav does not mean I feel the same way. I curse MB EVERY SINGLE TIME I get lost. To me getting lost is losing time, time that could be saved by using the Nav, which, as you know is nowhere to be found.

I am not criticizing you either, merely explaining my point of view. Different strokes for different folks.

 

Well put Monakh!!

In a country as large as Australia and with the amount of country driving I do Sat Nav is very,very important to me.

There is NO WAY I would be buying this car if Nav was not available.

Besides that, the used car market over here will not tolerate a AUS$ 140,000 prestige sedan without it.

I personally would have waited another few more months before ordering (heck, I'm driving a 17 year old Benz at the moment,what's a few more months),but when I did I was assured that the Nav issue would be resolved even before my car was due to be made.

If the situation is not eventually resolved to my satisfaction forget the need for this forum guys,you'll hear my disgust from where you are without it!!!!!!

 

I'm not a big Nav fan, however I think MB definitely misrepresented their vehicles by allowing people to prepay for a prewired option with no knowledge of if and when it would be available. I think MB should repay the money, give some other perks, and supply each person who ordered Comand a free hand held GPS device. I don't think one needs to drive a different vehicle though as this approach seems extreme

 

The hand held GPS is not a good compromise. Map space on the palm/pc handhelds is limited and the maps are very small. I am using a Magellan 750M which has a small computer attached to a handheld. The computer sits on the floor taking up the footwell where a rear passenger would sit. The handheld portion is clear, but there is no place to install it on the dash short of drilling a hole or two. The voice prompts are useful, but are less specific (such as saying the actual road on which to turn) than the MB Command. The radio does not mute when the voice speaks. It is better than nothing, but built in is best.

The Alpine and Pioneer built in Navs are nice, but their LED color scheme is inconsistent with the MB theme. I had the Alpine in my 98 E320 and it worked very well. The cars led color scheme was in the tan and browns while the Alpine's was green and red...significantly different. Just did not look very good.

I am becoming increasingly irritated hearing passengers chide me for buying an expensive car without navigation.

 

I believe MBUSA will have two sets of issues when considering what position to take in resolving their obligations to pre-purchasers of NAV systems. The first is Legal, the second is Public Relations.

I agree completely with eTenn and BabyJocko on their interpretation of this. The fact that a letter was issued promising NAV delivery in early spring 03, that invoices for these cars included NAV systems on them and that the payment for NAV was collected as part of the total payment for the car puts MBUSA in a very exposed position legally. I have some experience with contracts but am not a lawyer - but just think about these facts from a common sense perspective.

Even if MBUSA were to find a way around the legal liability, can you imagine what kind of public relations impact this would have on the company, at a time when their relaibility/JD powers ratings have recently plummeted?

I will go out on what I think is not very much of a limb for this forum and guarantee that MBUSA, if the retrofits cannot be provided, will address it in a way that makes the problem "cost neutral" to those who bought the cars. Either they will replace or reacquire the impacted vehicles, or offer "very large" cash compensation as a buyer selectable option to replacement. I ordered the NAV system, am pissed about having to wait, but am not worried about the outcome. And given the continuing free fall on e-class market prices, and the fact that I had to pay cash for a wood wheel that could only be ordered as an accessory, this could really work in my favor.

 

I agree with pat a. that I am also fairly sure that MBUSA will try to make this right for the people they pre-sold the pre-wired units to... it's hard to imagine that they wouldn't... But you also do have to realize, that they are going to do what is reasonable monetarily to them...

Taking into account the rumor on Autospies, it sounds very reasonable that the speculation about the entire reason for this debacle is that they are trying to integrate the tele-aid antenna/receiver/positioning/whatever with the route guidance COMAND nav system and they are trying to do this why? To lower costs for them.

If part of the reason that the old rumor of it taking their factory tech's 3 days work getting it down to 1 days work is also somewhat based in reality, then this makes sense to...

If the actual cost of the device is about a thousand bucks, and it takes about 3 man-days to retrofit and they determine this is too much of a pain, then I suppose, that yes, they may give you the option of something worth perhaps $4ish thousand, but I wouldn't expect too much more than that... You're not going to get any sort of "pain and suffering" award... if you're beginning to expect that, then I'd prepare myself to be disappointed...

I personally think that MBUSA will go to solutions which might cost them up to about $4k... much more than that would not make any business sense for them... it's actually even a stretch for them to put in that much, but it would be worth it to avoid lawsuits... and most people would see this as their going out of their way to fix something promised.

Realize that the above is obviously PURE speculation on my part, and just my opinion.

Also, I completely understand drb's annoyance. I am personally getting a ton of ribbing about it, and I haven't even purchased the car yet... I keep getting comments from friends like: "Hey, you know... You can get a factory-installed, dvd-based nav system, WITH a touch-screen... today... it's down at your local Honda dealer and you can drive one off the lot today for a third of the price..." ... "You know... GPS technology isn't exactly new... it's kind of been around a while... have you been in a Lexus lately?"

It is embarassing...

-NavNut

 

Navnut, what did you finally decide to do? I know you were down to the wire to decide between 2003 BMW or otherwise rent another car in Europe?

 

Where are you finding the information about free falling e-class market prices?

 

Navnut, check the article on e-class pricing on the latest Autospies

 

The autospies article is focused on southern cal dealerships. It might be a stretch to extrapolate that market across the USA. On the otherhand some of get no Command and see our car values plummet. Perhaps some customers will not be trading in a couple years.

 

Hi abhansali,

I went in to the MB dealer trying to get a better feel for when they are going to start new factory builds with the new COMAND nav system last week, and got absolutely no additional info... they believe that they will start in May, and that should work for Euro-delivery in July, but there are no guarentees... I guess this makes sense. It's in their best interests to string me along...

So I decided to let plan B go... Plan B was to get a 2003 BMW 540i for Euro-delivery. Pretty appealing because all in all it would cost me about 15 grand less... I was trying to rationalize getting the last model year of the current design by thinking that there will always be a demand for the old-style (when I end up selling it) and it starts out costing me less due to the Euro-delivery price break that BMW still gives (apparently MB no longer gives price breaks for Euro-delivery but they used to...) So I was thinking I wouldn't take too much of a bath when it came time to sell one of the last 540's made... add that to the fact that it's about as debugged a German car as you can get, being 6 years into this style's run...

But it is clearly a lesser car than the new E500 the way I want to equip it...

The dilemma with last week being that I believe we have now past the point where you can even place an order for a 540 at all... they are transitioning the assembly line over to the new 5-series, and they will not be making new 540's for quite a few months... I believe they are rolling out the 530's first, with the 525 and 545 to follow at an as yet unannounced later date.

So I have basically dropped my plan B completely. All I have left is plan C... My plan C (in case I cannot get the E500 for July Euro-delivery) is to just get a nav-equipped Lexus GS430 (saving about $30k over the E500 I want to order) and get it before I go to Europe... sell the lousy Audi before I leave and get that thing out of my hair early, and do a short term lease with Renault's Euro-drive program which I usually do over there...

I'd much rather be driving my new E500 all around Europe this summer, but if they can't get their act together, I will resolve my car problems before June... The only reason I was willing to hold on to the A6 until September was if I was going to get a Euro-delivery car. I do not want to keep that thing any longer than I have to... I have the constant fear that it's engine is going fall out, and that's just not pleasant.

So the dealer probably thinks that if he strings me along, I'll just buy a 2004 E500 after I get back from Europe, but that is no where in my plans. I either get an MB this summer, or I get one another summer. I want to get rid of the Audi asap. I can't take it any more... I can only deal with keeping it until the fall, if I know I will have a well-equipped E500 in the summer... Otherwise, it's going asap...

-NavNut
(long story, I know... I don't usually have very many short ones...)

 

I feel sorry for those of you that prepaid for the navigation and took delivery without it. I'm trying to piece together what exactly happened to some of you but I think your bone of contention should be with the unsavory characters that sold you a car and charged you for an option that they did not yet have. Is it just one particular dealership or several across the country? Just for kicks yesterday as I was at my local MB dealer, I asked simply what's up with the E-class and navigation. My dealer responded immediately it won't be available this year (I assumed this model year). I suppose he has the same information some of you have heard, so I wouldn't take that as THE definitive answer. I find it hard to believe (but I don't know) that MBUSA would instruct their salesmen to sell a car with a prepaid navigation unit that they have yet to sort out and allow them to deliver that car with a "promise" that it will be retrofitted at some later date. Even if a salesman produced an official looking memo from MBUSA saying that it would be available at a particular date, those things are notoriously not accurate, seemingly changing dates with the wind. When I purchased my 2001 CLK the COMAND navigation wasn't available with the explanation that it wasn't yet fully integrated with the tele-aid/antenna or something like that. The brochure stated delayed availability. Up until the build date I was in almost constant communication with my dealer to find out if I could order the COMAND before my car was assembled. Unfortunately I could not and ended up taking delivery without it. Several on this message board have had navigation systems retrofitted but I believe all have been with a separate GPS antenna, so the antenna theory seems believable. Good luck.

 

Well my friend, believe it or not, this is EXACTLY what has happened....and the memo did not just look official, it WAS official from MBUSA (and everyone has copies). Maybe MBUSA should have looked back at your CLK experience and done the same thing with the E.

 

I'm wondering where this idea about "resale value of an E not equipped with NAV will be significantly less" is coming from. What percentage of buyers even want the Nav? I'm interested in the new E, and do not want it. Are you folks saying that E sales are sluggish because Nav is not available for 2003?

 

Opinions and personal preferences are always truly interesting. the NAV, in my humble opinion, is similar to choices of color and other options. It is a matter of what pushes your buttons, what you like, what you need, what you feel is nice to have, how you would use it, etc. Personally, I love gadgets and I am sure that NAV would be a great toy. No, I don't have it, but I love the car. Sure, I could get NAV in a Honda, a Lexus or whatever, but I added up everything and the overall MB package is more attractive to me. Quite simply, with NAV or without it, a Honda is not a MB E class, is it?

Some have mentioned hand held or similar devices, and again, I think that this is a personal preference. It certainly seems to address the need for NAV and will allow a MB-E in the garage.

Yes, it is shameful the way that MBUSA and the dealers have handled the NAV communications. Indeed, Harvard Business School should document this as a case study.

In the meantime, we have an interesting diversion or discussion point, don't we?