monakh

I agree it is a positive sign all around. And we welcome any information we receive, even the rumors that built up the early speculation. You don't have to defend your position with caveats. It is understood that all information is subject to verification by official MB communication. And as you so aptly said, we can really trust THAT.

In the end, when it really happens, what ever IT may be, I think that is when it will start settling in.

Mommy, I ain't dreaming no more!

O/T: One way or another, I am likely gonna get rid of my E--as much as I love it. I just refuse to own a premium automobile, the manufacturer of which does not believe it is worth their while, to communicate with its dedicated customers.

Oh well, too bad the checkered flag from Bavaria ain't much better, and Infiniti just has rebadged Nissans even if they have great customer service. We are living in trying times.

On the flip side, I was recently in a South East Asian country where the premium mode of transport is a Honda Civic. I happened to look at the manual for the vehicle and it stated that the Honda warranty for the car was 1 year or 20,000km, whatever comes first!

Dang!

ctouhey

I guess my sales rep is pretty far down the ol' totem pole. I left a voice mail saying that I had heard some new rumors about the navigation system and wanted her to call me so I could see what she knew. She left me a voice mail saying that she had heard nothing and specifically, "...we haven't seen any memos or anything in writing ...." She said she would call if and when there was some type of official communication. Guess I'll wait a week like everyone else and see if I get a letter...

cte430

It would be a shame to give up the car because of this. I'm as disappointed as you are in how one of the premier auto manufacturers in the world has handled this. However, things "aint like they used to be" (and I'm ony 39!). Pleasing shareholders and customers at the same time is a very difficult thing to do. In a rush to get product to market, or meet Wall Street expectations, the customer usually suffers. I think MB really did try, but like many other companies tripped all over themselves, and the lack of communication added to the problem. I'm in medical equipment sales and for the last 10+ years have been selling Cardiac Cath labs (which go for $1 mil. plus) for one of the largest, most well respected companies in the WORLD (i'll give you a hint--the first word starts with G and the second E). You would be horrified at some of the stuff i've seen. Stuff that worked in the lab, or the factory, but once installed in a real world hosp. just didn't work. And this is stuff that is a LOT more important than a navigation system, and the ramifications of it not working are enormous. We didn't do it on purpose. I used to be amazed at how a company this big, with the talent and resources not be able to figure stuff out. We really did care for our customers, as I'm sure MB does. You think you've got all your I's dotted and T's crossed, but stuff just happens and then your in damage control. I'm not making excuses for MB, but i'm not sure if your alternatives will prove to be any better.

monakh

Perhaps you are right, and that we are judging the whole episode too harshly. I guess I am less forgiving even though I am only a half-dozen years younger than you.

However, what I don't get is, ultimately, they (the manufacturer) must sell their product to the customer. And the customer, therefore, has a choice and can vote with their wallet. As etenn and I briefly discussed a few days back, if we don't do this on principle (give up our Es, for example) then it will send MB the message that it is OK to screw up the way they did, and what's worse, it is OK to handle the screw up with a complete lack of communication. Hell we had more coming out of Iraq and that was war!

I honestly am willing to understand if there is a glitch in technology. I am a consultant with the largest Consulting firm in the world (I will give you a hint, it starts with an A ) and I know all about technology not being able to deliver all the time. The problem I have is with what ensued after that glitch.

In my opinion, MB should have kept us apprised of the problem, and if there was no solution forthcoming, should have apprised us of that, as well. While they were at it, they should have assured their customers, that the purchase of a automobile that costs upward of seventy grand will not become a burden to a select band of its customers. I am perfectly willing to wait and understand in that scenario. All we were asking for was to be talked to. Talk to us, MB.

That's all. And the rant ends.

clembo

Yesterday when my dealer called I told him that I'm not really in a rush for a replacement E500 if I choose that option. I have a BMW 330 convertible that has been stored for the winter but I could use it all summer. The point is that I'd rather have an "04 replacement and he seemed willing to work it out to my satisfaction.

Again, no commitment from the dealer yet, but I believe that they will have some level of control in conjunction with MBUSA to "do the right thing" for their customers.

P.S. cte430 - I'm 38 and have been in the medical device business for a little over 10 years. Your company and mine are both world class operations but we have both seen our share of situations like this MB example in our businesses. I'm sure that they exist in most industries.

Baby Jocko

I agree with monakh (except for his trust in war-time 'information'). MB did not screw up when they failed to deliver navigation for the 2003 E. They screwed up when they chose to obfuscate the issue.

I too am re-considering my purchase of a 2004 E500 because of this. Yes, DaimlerChrysler has to answer to their shareholders, but, without a satisfied customer base, consideration of shareholders would be a moot point.

Zandorf

I'd like all of your opinions on something. I did not prepay for the nav b/c my dealer did not know I was suppose to prepay. So he gave me the discount on my car and asked me to pay full price on the nav when it becomes available. A few weeks ago he called and asked if I still wanted the nav, and he said that he put my name on a list. Do you think this means that MB knows to give me their offer for people who preordered the nav, or did they know right from the beginning (ie. when the order for the car was placed) who had prepaid and who didnt and thus making my dealer's claim that he had put me on a "list" bull*.

drb

I think only the dealers knew who prepaid until a few weeks ago when MBUSA asked the dealers who ordered navigation. What we do not know is how they reported that information. They may have reported those who ordered it and parsed the list between prepaid and IOUs. I'd ask the sales manager of the dealership who would have a comprehensive view of the dealership policy on this matter.

monakh

Errm...Baby Jocko, for what it's worth, that was meant to be a sarcastic remark

nyca

drb, I see you have an E320 with the pre-ordered but nonexistent Nav. Suppose the 2004 E is an E350, if they give you a deal to rolll into a 2004, and its an E350, that could be a significant upgrade.

I still haven't heard anything about the 2004 being an E350, its one of the main uncertainties holding me back from moving on a 2003 (I don't want Nav).

NavNut

I thought the rumoured 350 to come to the states was just for the wagon (and probably a 4matic...) and not for the RWD sedan... but I could be wrong...

-NavNut

Callaway

If the 350 comes it will be across the entire E Class model range (and probably in the CLK coupe and convertable as well).

Legacy

I received this letter by fax from my M-B salesman. He had just received it along withh a companion letter to the dealership. Unfortunately, the "full details" are not yet in the dealer's hands.

The letter is on M-B USA letterhead. I assume this is the letter each E-Class owner who has prepaid for NAVI will receive.

This is all I know now.

"MYO3 E-Class Navigation / COMAND

April 25, 2003

Dear E-Class Owner,
We are contacting you regarding your 2003 E-Class and the availability of the COMAND navigation system. As you may know, certain 2003 E-Class cars were factory pre-wired for the COMAND system and we originally planned to offer this
system for later retrofit. We have since recently determined that a retrofit solution is currently not feasible.

We understand that you have been waiting for release of the COMAND system and we appreciate your patience.

Since you have pre-paid for this system as part of the purchase/lease of your vehicle and we would like to offer to you,
in full resolution of any concerns regarding our inability to provide a retrofit navigation system, one of the following compensation options:
Option 1 $2,000 cash reimbursement, or
Option 2 Exchange your current 2003 E Class vehicle for a new 2003 E-Class with COMAND (same paint, upholstery and optional equipment level as your current vehicle)

We are making this offer to owners of 2003 E-Class models who have paid $1,625 in advance for the COMAND system.
Option 2 will require ordering of a specific 2003 vehicle, which may involve a several month waiting period. There are some limitations and your 2003 vehicle provided in exchange must be operational and in at least average condition for
its age and mileage, reasonable wear and tear excepted. Your authorized Mercedes-Benz Dealer will provide you with full details on this offer.

Sincerely,
Bernhard Glaser
General Manager
Product Management / Passenger Cars

Karen Makris
Department Manager
Product Management E- & S-Class"

LEGACY
---------------

2003 E500

bmms8

wow, how gay....im sorry, but a long wait for a 03??? come on...and only an 03??? that is ridiculous. well whatever, we have to face the facts....i guess we'll be wating for another new E, hopefully, they wont mess up on our options...thanks for the info

drb

It sounds as if the devil is in the details. However, it is a relief to know the outcome and a time frame. August delivery still provides some summer vacation driving. So far this notice appears to be good news.

NavNut

I think this is great for you guys... I know it was annoying... but a brand spanking new car for the car you've been driving for months with reasonable wear and tear excepted... and no money? That sounds pretty fair to me... Sure it would have been nice to be able to change the options and/or color choices and pay something... but heck... this sounds pretty good... Now the only thing I want to know is when they'll start taking NEW orders for nav-equipped E's...

-NavNut

nyca

so they still plan on delivering 2003s in August? On the C Class board, some people were mentioning that June were the last deliveries for 2003 Cs, but that car is due for a mid model run facelift for the 2004 model year.

I wonder how many people pre-ordered this across the US, and will now be turning in 2003 Es to dealers? I wonder if that pool of Es having to being resold will effect prices?

e500

It'll be interesting how they handle those on lease. Probably existing lease goes on w/no change in lease expiration. Will the mileage terms start over @ zero or will total mileage be reduced by miles on first car? Even though it says same car, color, options, I bet if you paid cash and wanted something additional you could swing it. eg, I have sun roof and would probably get the panaoramic. I also plan to tell the dealer I want it
@ cost for all the BS Ive gone through and all the presumed future trips to the service dept. to shake out the defects on the new car all over again.

e500

This is also a chance for those w/sport pkg like me who got stuck w/ Conti Touring CH95 garbage. I will insist on W rated tires as was mentioned in brochure and on MB website.

wesam

This is complete and udder BS. I hope to God that was not the letter everyone will receive. If it is, I’m talking to a lawyer. I don’t know how this is a “consumer friendly solution”. It seems to me that we’re getting the short end of the stick. I don’t know how they can do this. Giving me a 2003 in August does nothing but buy them time for another 3 months…meanwhile, I still don’t have the car I paid for. I’m going to do everything I can to get my money back.


Are there any lawyers on the board? How would a lawsuit hold up legally? I mean, I bought my car with full intention of having NAV by the end of 1st 1/4 of 2003...I would not have bought this car otherwise. AND if I had to wait until August of 2003 for a car with NAV I would buy a 04'...not a 03'. It seems that they are trying to force our hands, and I don't like it.

If I get my money back...screw MB, I’m buying the new 5-Series. I've been more than patient with this car. But the NAV situation combined with the countless times I’ve had this car in for service is making be hate it every time I get in it.

STKLAW

Revocation of Acceptance. Uniform Commercial Code.

monakh

I stand corrected. It appears they are NOT offering us '04s as I had hoped and suspected. I don't get it. How are they not taking orders for any more '03 with Nav, but they can offer us '03s with Nav. Wacked out.

I would have LOVED an '04 but I guess that is too much to ask. The $2000 offer is a joke.

Hmm...I am doing about 1500 miles a month, I hope that is not too bad. I think I will get the new '03 E and trade it in for a 545.

wesam

Can someone good at this sort of thing, possibly draft a letter mentioning the two laws above? I think for those of use that refuse to be ripped off by MB, now is the time to start taking action. It would be nice to have a letter we could all send giving them 30 days to either install the NAV, or refund our money.

KevinR

For my personal information, what’s the difference between a ’03 E and a ’04 E. You can purchase a 04’ E in 2003? We don’t have this here.

drb

I hope the law will prevail on our behalf. MB's promise of nav was early spring. The nav option, if this letter is true, is now available. If retrofit was possible, the units would ship, we would have nav in our cars quickly.

MB, however, offers to build each customer a new car per the original order, to achieve the nav goal because retrofit is impossible. As everyone knows, building and delivery take time and it varies depending on where you live. In my case the interval was 6 weeks.

MB could offer everyone a E320 or E500 with a predetermined set of options and nav or a refund of $2K. Being the end of the model year the dealers appear to have many cars loaded with options. This might shorten the delivery date, I don't know.

Can the legal question be the definition of delivery ... availability and action to achieve delivery vice a promise with no endpoint.

It would be nice to have the option to have the 04 model with some financial adjustment in the customer's favor, but that would be comparing apples or oranges (two different model years).

On the other hand, by receiving the end of year 03s perhaps the kinks have been eliminated.