Command Solution - two MBUSA letters
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Lahore | Manama | Seattle
inkm
drb bought his car at the ASC, and I bought mine at MB of Alexandria, which, as I have mentioned many times right here, is the Evil (TM) Offshoot of the ASC.
You don't want to know my salesperson's name, he has not been very good to me.
You don't want to know my salesperson's name, he has not been very good to me.
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 924
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From: Northern VA
2003 MB E500
Does anyone know if we must go back to the dealer we purchased our E's from in order to resolve the nav issue, or can we go to any MB dealer? I don't see why it would make a difference to MB if we prove that we are one of the customers who prepaid for the Nav.
This way we can use competition to work out the best deal possible instead of a dealer just saying that's the deal take it or leave it. Thoughts?
This way we can use competition to work out the best deal possible instead of a dealer just saying that's the deal take it or leave it. Thoughts?
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Lahore | Manama | Seattle
Good question
Unfortunately, I have no idea as to the answer. Most likely not though. Why would any other dealer want to make things right for you? This appears to be an effort based on the 'above and beyond' concept, and your dealer really has to come through for you (as etenn's has--and I guess drb is happy as well).
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 924
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From: Northern VA
2003 MB E500
Re: Good question
Originally posted by monakh
Unfortunately, I have no idea as to the answer. Most likely not though. Why would any other dealer want to make things right for you? This appears to be an effort based on the 'above and beyond' concept, and your dealer really has to come through for you (as etenn's has--and I guess drb is happy as well).
Unfortunately, I have no idea as to the answer. Most likely not though. Why would any other dealer want to make things right for you? This appears to be an effort based on the 'above and beyond' concept, and your dealer really has to come through for you (as etenn's has--and I guess drb is happy as well).
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 926
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From: VA
03 E320, sport package, moon roof, sound upgrade, brilliant silver, charcoal leather, heated seats..
Originally posted by inkm
monakh and drb,
Is your dealer ASC in Arlington, VA (on Glebe Rd.)? If yes, then could you tell me your salesperson's name or whom i should speak to? I bought my car (E500) from ASC in Arlington, but haven't talked to anybody yet about the Nav. issue. Thanks in advance.
monakh and drb,
Is your dealer ASC in Arlington, VA (on Glebe Rd.)? If yes, then could you tell me your salesperson's name or whom i should speak to? I bought my car (E500) from ASC in Arlington, but haven't talked to anybody yet about the Nav. issue. Thanks in advance.
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 102
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From: Los Angeles
E500
Iam in S. Cali, my dealer is going to replace my car for free with exact same options. There will be no sales tax, because it is a replacement; however, I was not able to get clear answer about the DMV fees. I should expect to get the car in August, meantime, I can drive mt current car. (as long as I dont have excessive miles)
I think this only applies for those who have paid deposit towards nav.
I think this only applies for those who have paid deposit towards nav.
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 113
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From: Milwaukee, WI
1992 Ford Taurus with 13" rims
My dealer just called me, and sadly....I was offered 3 options...none of which I liked. I'm in Milwaukee, WI BTW.
1. $2000
2. Even trade for '03 with Nav
3. $3250 certificate to be used on a purchase of a new car.
All of which are complete BS.
Etenn, can you please provide the name of the dealer that offered you the 04'? I
1. $2000
2. Even trade for '03 with Nav
3. $3250 certificate to be used on a purchase of a new car.
All of which are complete BS.
Etenn, can you please provide the name of the dealer that offered you the 04'? I
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Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: VA
03 E320, sport package, moon roof, sound upgrade, brilliant silver, charcoal leather, heated seats..
Originally posted by wesam
My dealer just called me, and sadly....I was offered 3 options...none of which I liked. I'm in Milwaukee, WI BTW.
1. $2000
2. Even trade for '03 with Nav
3. $3250 certificate to be used on a purchase of a new car.
All of which are complete BS.
Etenn, can you please provide the name of the dealer that offered you the 04'? I
My dealer just called me, and sadly....I was offered 3 options...none of which I liked. I'm in Milwaukee, WI BTW.
1. $2000
2. Even trade for '03 with Nav
3. $3250 certificate to be used on a purchase of a new car.
All of which are complete BS.
Etenn, can you please provide the name of the dealer that offered you the 04'? I
I understand how#1 & #3 can be seen as BS in that #1 means you never get the nav, and #3 means out of pocket costs for a new 04. With #2 you can trade in the 04 MY and probably get a better deal than with #3 and you get nav in the meantime. Swaping an 03 for an 04 sounds like apples and oranges.
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 194
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From: Southern California
2003 E320
few questions
i also prepaid for nav. my dealer told me to wait until i get my letter and then we'll talk. i want to do an even swap for a new '03 E320 but i'd like to add a few more options this time around...i'm hoping that will be cool.
a few questions though:
1) did the dealers every say anything about mileage? i only have 2700 miles (order placed in oct., delivered in dec) so i think i'm okay but i would like to know what the max mileage is.
2) is there a mileage charge or is it a swap w/o any mileage charge?
3) what happens if i do all of this and then get into a car accident before taking delivery of the new car? will that cause them to renege on the deal?
4) what if there is a similar car on the lot? can they do a swap right away or does the new one have to be ordered?
what a fiasco. i'm watching my mail every day for that letter.
Rock.
a few questions though:
1) did the dealers every say anything about mileage? i only have 2700 miles (order placed in oct., delivered in dec) so i think i'm okay but i would like to know what the max mileage is.
2) is there a mileage charge or is it a swap w/o any mileage charge?
3) what happens if i do all of this and then get into a car accident before taking delivery of the new car? will that cause them to renege on the deal?
4) what if there is a similar car on the lot? can they do a swap right away or does the new one have to be ordered?
what a fiasco. i'm watching my mail every day for that letter.
Rock.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 287
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From: Lahore | Manama | Seattle
Originally posted by drb
What is your reasoning behind saying an Even trade for '03 with Nav is BS?
What is your reasoning behind saying an Even trade for '03 with Nav is BS?
However, how do you account for the fact that by the time your new '03 rolls around you have been without Nav (at least in my case), almost an entire year? What is the cost of that particular intangible?
If you are going to tell me that I have the added benefit of having a car with zero mileage, and therefore less depreciation, that is not much of a bonus at all. If your intent is to keep driving your car, then that doesn't help you any. Where is the compensation for us not having Nav for a year? How do you account for the BS that MB pulled with a war-style communication black-out?
So while I understand that the options are somewhat fair, I totally get wesam's frustration. We should be offered an option, no questions asked, by MBUSA, so we don't have to go begging to our dealers for a deal. This option should go above and beyond (there is that phrase again) the call of duty to satisfy MB customers. Does this option go above and beyond? I don't know, I will let you all decide. I know we have to get off of our asses and do something but why the hell should we have to? MB should do the legwork for us, this is their damn issue. And it always has been.
Anyway, I have said my piece, wesam's anger is understandable.
Last edited by monakh; May 1, 2003 at 05:31 PM.
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 113
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From: Milwaukee, WI
1992 Ford Taurus with 13" rims
Drb,
I think it's BS because it's not do anything for me...all it's doing is buying MB more time. The Nav was supposed to be ready by March...now theyre talking October for the exchange?
I think it's BS because it's not do anything for me...all it's doing is buying MB more time. The Nav was supposed to be ready by March...now theyre talking October for the exchange?
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 113
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From: Milwaukee, WI
1992 Ford Taurus with 13" rims
I just contacted MB via the 1-800 number, and interestingly enough....the rep said that the deal can vary from dealer to dealer, state to state. Then followed that up by saying that MB only offers 03’ excahnges 5 minutes later?!? Are all the reps this confused?
Maybe Etenn was offered a 04' because his dealer has already exhausted its 03' allocations?
Maybe Etenn was offered a 04' because his dealer has already exhausted its 03' allocations?
Last edited by wesam; May 1, 2003 at 09:13 PM.
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 113
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From: Milwaukee, WI
1992 Ford Taurus with 13" rims
Well guys,
I thought over all my options, and decided what MB is offering is a joke. I can understand how this deal can be good to some people. Drb for example, bought his car, so he'll gain from option 2/3. He has the $500 initial Nav savings, the wood steering wheel, and id say a nice chunk of cash in resale value with all the miles he saved. So what is that total, around $2000?
That seems like a good deal!
However, for people like me (i.e. people that lease) the options do nothing for us. Options 1 and 3 are a joke, and option 2 only gives MB 4 more months to come up with a Nav they promised by March. Meanwhile, I’m still paying for it EVERY month. So, what do we gain from option 2? Miles? No, I don't plan on going over my allotted mileage, and especially not to the tune of 10,000. And resale value? Nope, I don't plan on buying the car.
Following all that thinking I called MB. I stated that this offer was not acceptable. The rep asked why, and I told her. I also mentioned that I wanted to solve this without my lawyer. She asked what I wanted, and I told her I hadn't decided that yet (that’s another good question though…what is fair? What would make us “lease guys” whole?). She told me that someone in a better position to deal with my demands will be contacting me within 24 hours.
In any case, I have an appointment with my lawyer Saturday....but I’m hoping I can solve this on my own.
I thought over all my options, and decided what MB is offering is a joke. I can understand how this deal can be good to some people. Drb for example, bought his car, so he'll gain from option 2/3. He has the $500 initial Nav savings, the wood steering wheel, and id say a nice chunk of cash in resale value with all the miles he saved. So what is that total, around $2000?
That seems like a good deal!
However, for people like me (i.e. people that lease) the options do nothing for us. Options 1 and 3 are a joke, and option 2 only gives MB 4 more months to come up with a Nav they promised by March. Meanwhile, I’m still paying for it EVERY month. So, what do we gain from option 2? Miles? No, I don't plan on going over my allotted mileage, and especially not to the tune of 10,000. And resale value? Nope, I don't plan on buying the car.
Following all that thinking I called MB. I stated that this offer was not acceptable. The rep asked why, and I told her. I also mentioned that I wanted to solve this without my lawyer. She asked what I wanted, and I told her I hadn't decided that yet (that’s another good question though…what is fair? What would make us “lease guys” whole?). She told me that someone in a better position to deal with my demands will be contacting me within 24 hours.
In any case, I have an appointment with my lawyer Saturday....but I’m hoping I can solve this on my own.
Last edited by wesam; May 1, 2003 at 11:16 PM.
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 136
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From: New Jersey
I spoke to me dealer again today and told him the folllowing:
because of MB screw-ups, I paid cash for my steering wheel and 50% cash for my CD player (steering wheel was not available from the factory, CD player was added after the order since I found out late about the no CD audio while navigating unless you had the CD player). I believe I should be thus able to trasnfer those accesories to my new exchange vehicle and instead order equivalent options.
also, I want ti know, as others on the forum have stated, how I am being compensated for loss of use of the NAV system for the period of march through august.
He told me he would discuss my requests with the dealership manager and the mbusa rep and get back to me.
He did say that the mbusa rep had told the dealership that there were legal reasons why no equipment changes could be made to the exchaneg vehilce compared to the original. This makes some sense since the lease contract is not changing, and changing equipment would alter the lease value and residuals.
i guess we all need to stay tuned and keep each other informed on how our deals play out.
because of MB screw-ups, I paid cash for my steering wheel and 50% cash for my CD player (steering wheel was not available from the factory, CD player was added after the order since I found out late about the no CD audio while navigating unless you had the CD player). I believe I should be thus able to trasnfer those accesories to my new exchange vehicle and instead order equivalent options.
also, I want ti know, as others on the forum have stated, how I am being compensated for loss of use of the NAV system for the period of march through august.
He told me he would discuss my requests with the dealership manager and the mbusa rep and get back to me.
He did say that the mbusa rep had told the dealership that there were legal reasons why no equipment changes could be made to the exchaneg vehilce compared to the original. This makes some sense since the lease contract is not changing, and changing equipment would alter the lease value and residuals.
i guess we all need to stay tuned and keep each other informed on how our deals play out.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 926
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From: VA
03 E320, sport package, moon roof, sound upgrade, brilliant silver, charcoal leather, heated seats..
Originally posted by monakh
drb, I understand that if you get an '04 with no out of pocket expense (as etenn apparently has), that is a great bonus. I also agree with your opinion about getting an '03 with Nav as a replacement trade being an equitable transaction.
However, how do you account for the fact that by the time your new '03 rolls around you have been without Nav (at least in my case), almost an entire year? What is the cost of that particular intangible?
If you are going to tell me that I have the added benefit of having a car with zero mileage, and therefore less depreciation, that is not much of a bonus at all. If your intent is to keep driving your car, then that doesn't help you any. Where is the compensation for us not having Nav for a year? How do you account for the BS that MB pulled with a war-style communication black-out?
So while I understand that the options are somewhat fair, I totally get wesam's frustration. We should be offered an option, no questions asked, by MBUSA, so we don't have to go begging to our dealers for a deal. This option should go above and beyond (there is that phrase again) the call of duty to satisfy MB customers. Does this option go above and beyond? I don't know, I will let you all decide. I know we have to get off of our asses and do something but why the hell should we have to? MB should do the legwork for us, this is their damn issue. And it always has been.
Anyway, I have said my piece, wesam's anger is understandable.
drb, I understand that if you get an '04 with no out of pocket expense (as etenn apparently has), that is a great bonus. I also agree with your opinion about getting an '03 with Nav as a replacement trade being an equitable transaction.
However, how do you account for the fact that by the time your new '03 rolls around you have been without Nav (at least in my case), almost an entire year? What is the cost of that particular intangible?
If you are going to tell me that I have the added benefit of having a car with zero mileage, and therefore less depreciation, that is not much of a bonus at all. If your intent is to keep driving your car, then that doesn't help you any. Where is the compensation for us not having Nav for a year? How do you account for the BS that MB pulled with a war-style communication black-out?
So while I understand that the options are somewhat fair, I totally get wesam's frustration. We should be offered an option, no questions asked, by MBUSA, so we don't have to go begging to our dealers for a deal. This option should go above and beyond (there is that phrase again) the call of duty to satisfy MB customers. Does this option go above and beyond? I don't know, I will let you all decide. I know we have to get off of our asses and do something but why the hell should we have to? MB should do the legwork for us, this is their damn issue. And it always has been.
Anyway, I have said my piece, wesam's anger is understandable.
Regarding compensation for the interval between March-August delivery of nav, if the dealer tosses in an option or two, that is plenty compensation, IMHO. I understand this is emotional issue. Two weeks ago I was test driving a Lexus! ready to abandon ship.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 264
Likes: 22
From: Northern VA
2021 GLE 450
I just read an article from Autospies (www.autospies.com) that said that you may be able to get an 04 model if you push for it. I certainly will be talking with my salesman about this.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,690
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From: Washington State
E-500
Just to clarify....I was told '04 on the phone and did not question it , of course. I expect exact details the middle of next week after dealer meets with MB Rep.
In as much as MBUSA asked someone what they thought was fair, it may be that the dealers have been advised to make the initial offer and then report resistance to MBUSA. It would be wise to put up a struggle until this is over and we all know what is possible. Hold out until you get what you want or we can compare offers and insure that we are all treating equally.
Ed
In as much as MBUSA asked someone what they thought was fair, it may be that the dealers have been advised to make the initial offer and then report resistance to MBUSA. It would be wise to put up a struggle until this is over and we all know what is possible. Hold out until you get what you want or we can compare offers and insure that we are all treating equally.
Ed
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 112
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From: New Jersey
E500
RE: MAKING CHANGES ON LEASED VEHICLE
Since it's basically a transfer of vehicles with no changes made to the lease itself, I see no reason why if someone wanted to add option(s) and was willing to pay cash for it(them) why MB would not accomodate. This is something we should not cave in to.
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 924
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From: Northern VA
2003 MB E500
I just spoke to me dealer again, HBL in Tyson’s Corner VA and they refuse to do anything more than replace my EXACT car with a Nav equipped 2003! No extras, no wood wheel, no 2004.
I called MB and they said I must negotiate with the dealer I purchased the car from only. I told them that my dealer wasn't willing to make things right IMO. He said that MB couldn’t do anything about that. I need to work out what I can from the dealer.
On another point, MB said my MB extended warranty would start over on the new car. My dealer said it would transfer but not start over! Who the H- - - knows what is going on here. Communications are still messed up. The dealer says one thing, MB says another.
Finally I asked HBL about a buy back. He said no way.
So what do you all think. We have to take whatever our individual dealers are offering and that's it? Take it or leave it? I am very angry with the way this is going!
I called MB and they said I must negotiate with the dealer I purchased the car from only. I told them that my dealer wasn't willing to make things right IMO. He said that MB couldn’t do anything about that. I need to work out what I can from the dealer.
On another point, MB said my MB extended warranty would start over on the new car. My dealer said it would transfer but not start over! Who the H- - - knows what is going on here. Communications are still messed up. The dealer says one thing, MB says another.
Finally I asked HBL about a buy back. He said no way.
So what do you all think. We have to take whatever our individual dealers are offering and that's it? Take it or leave it? I am very angry with the way this is going!
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18
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Why would you pay cash for non-removable items on a leased car? When you lease a car you only pay for the depreciated portion of the car + financing fees, etc. paying cash for options would significantly increase your cost of ownership which is contrary to the purpose of a lease. If you are financing the car and want to pay cash for options, that is an entirely different story since presumably the car with be worth more when you sell/trade it.
The only way that paying cash for options on a leased car can help is if you trade it in early, then the actual value of the vehicle may be higher than the estimated residual that your lease is based on.
The only way that paying cash for options on a leased car can help is if you trade it in early, then the actual value of the vehicle may be higher than the estimated residual that your lease is based on.
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 194
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From: Southern California
2003 E320
stoneguard
Originally posted by HarvE55
Someone mentioned stone guard hood protection. What is this?
Someone mentioned stone guard hood protection. What is this?
it protects the front hood portion of your car against rocks and stuff like that.
Rock.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 136
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From: New Jersey
Craig:
As a result of my adding the wood wheel and CD player as accessories, and not options:
1. The wood wheel was not residualized at all in the lease
2. The CD player was only 50 % residualized in the lease (since 50% or $400 is the factory price, vs. $800 as an accessory).
My position now is that my lease price should be adjusted since I am giving up this car and ordering a new one in which these items would be factory installed and thus fully residualized.
As a result of my adding the wood wheel and CD player as accessories, and not options:
1. The wood wheel was not residualized at all in the lease
2. The CD player was only 50 % residualized in the lease (since 50% or $400 is the factory price, vs. $800 as an accessory).
My position now is that my lease price should be adjusted since I am giving up this car and ordering a new one in which these items would be factory installed and thus fully residualized.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 287
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From: Lahore | Manama | Seattle
rayscar
Dude, I am sorry to hear that. I, frankly, expect no better from my dealer either. I have not been able to track my salesperson down.
HBL, ASC Arlington and ASC Alexandria are all part of the Axis of Evil (TM) We must defend ourselves appropriately!
I know I have made a joke out of these dealerships in general, but the joke really is on us. I wish I had a choice. And I believe I do. I am going to jump ship no matter what my dealer does for me. Your experience with the call to MBUSA illustrates that MB does not give a rat's as** about its customers. They have less than 1500 buyers affected by this issue. They could have implemented an umbrella policy regardless of dealer intent that served its customers. Instead, they are leaving this up to the dealers and customers, knowing full well, that a small minority (likely us suckers on this board) are the ones making the most noise, and they can take the '03 replacement instead of some cash. And what a replacement it is. I can't stand HBL or ASC.
Arrgghh...
HBL, ASC Arlington and ASC Alexandria are all part of the Axis of Evil (TM) We must defend ourselves appropriately!
I know I have made a joke out of these dealerships in general, but the joke really is on us. I wish I had a choice. And I believe I do. I am going to jump ship no matter what my dealer does for me. Your experience with the call to MBUSA illustrates that MB does not give a rat's as** about its customers. They have less than 1500 buyers affected by this issue. They could have implemented an umbrella policy regardless of dealer intent that served its customers. Instead, they are leaving this up to the dealers and customers, knowing full well, that a small minority (likely us suckers on this board) are the ones making the most noise, and they can take the '03 replacement instead of some cash. And what a replacement it is. I can't stand HBL or ASC.
Arrgghh...
