Class Action suit over M272 M273
#26
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
They (all car manufacturers) do not need to build cars that last. Most cars these days are leased and most first owners do not care how old they last (as long as first 3-4 years are bullet proof, and for most they are). There was no such thing as a "lease" 20-25 years ago and people mostly kept their cars 5-7 years at least, 7-10 for MBs(these was mostly because they were expensive to begin with).
In '86 I couldn't spend my 1 yr salary for 300E. My first house in NYC back then, was the same as buying 2 300Es. How many Es were on the road back then? Not that many.
Fast forward to 2011. Current price is just a part of what I make (granted I'm older and have more than one income source). Es (W210/W211/W212) are everywhere. I have 3 late model Es with avarage MSRP of $60K, all paid in cash. What kind of housing you can buy (for apples to apples comparison, still in NYC) for $60K even after the RE plunge of the last 3 years? Maybe a very nice kitchen. If late model Es (W211/W212) were $100K, how many would I have? Maybe 1. Multiply it and the impact is huge. E's are MB's bread and butter.
Fast forward to 2011. Current price is just a part of what I make (granted I'm older and have more than one income source). Es (W210/W211/W212) are everywhere. I have 3 late model Es with avarage MSRP of $60K, all paid in cash. What kind of housing you can buy (for apples to apples comparison, still in NYC) for $60K even after the RE plunge of the last 3 years? Maybe a very nice kitchen. If late model Es (W211/W212) were $100K, how many would I have? Maybe 1. Multiply it and the impact is huge. E's are MB's bread and butter.
btw, housing (space) is finite, cars are not. The cost of modern cars with a reduced labor force and lower modern assembly line costs has no bearing on an apartment in NYC.
Just because the E Class is MB's 'bread and butter,' doesn't mean it can't be better built. And they do happen to be at the higher price range of all brands in their segment. So they are still expensive in relation to all other brands, just like 25 years ago.
But again your implication is that because the price is more competitive now than it was 25 years ago, that we should simply accept poorly designed and badly manufactured components. Sorry, not me.
#27
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That's still irrelevant to why certain manufacturers cannot build high quality automobiles. Some actually do, and sell the cars for affordable prices while still maintaining profitability. So why not MB?
Just because the E Class is MB's 'bread and butter,' doesn't mean it can't be better built. And they do happen to be at the higher price range of all brands in their segment. So they are still expensive in relation to all other brands, just like 25 years ago..
Just because the E Class is MB's 'bread and butter,' doesn't mean it can't be better built. And they do happen to be at the higher price range of all brands in their segment. So they are still expensive in relation to all other brands, just like 25 years ago..
Enough of this. Proove it with your actions, not with words here. Do not buy MBs. Period.
#28
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Basically...
How dare you complain about the reliability of Mercedes vehicles and the substandard parts they seem to use on occasion. You complain about Mercedes? Then NO Mercedes for you!
I guess when you pay top dollar for supposedly one of the finest engineered vehicles you can buy expecting longevity and reliability with that is too much for some people.
I hope we can get back to discussing the actual suit that is pending along with what MB might be willing to do for the owners of affected cars.
#29
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09' E350 AMG Sport, 09' C300, 03' Honda S2K
Is the class suit actually pending from MB, or is it still in the process. I dont know about some of you guys, but I was planning on keeping my E for over 5 yrs!!!
#30
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Ah this reminds me of the Seinfeld soup **** episode
Basically...
How dare you complain about the reliability of Mercedes vehicles and the substandard parts they seem to use on occasion. You complain about Mercedes? Then NO Mercedes for you!
I guess when you pay top dollar for supposedly one of the finest engineered vehicles you can buy expecting longevity and reliability with that is too much for some people.
I hope we can get back to discussing the actual suit that is pending along with what MB might be willing to do for the owners of affected cars.
Basically...
How dare you complain about the reliability of Mercedes vehicles and the substandard parts they seem to use on occasion. You complain about Mercedes? Then NO Mercedes for you!
I guess when you pay top dollar for supposedly one of the finest engineered vehicles you can buy expecting longevity and reliability with that is too much for some people.
I hope we can get back to discussing the actual suit that is pending along with what MB might be willing to do for the owners of affected cars.
Progress comes from people not keeping their mouth shut and rolling over dead.
#32
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Um, sure why not? Here's a current example: when the W212 E63 came out in its first year without the standard alcantara headliner. There were lots of complaints across the internet about it and about cost cutting in general. The very next year, MB returned it as a standard fare.
When Schrempp was cranking out crappy cars the industry trade journals and the car magazines flooded the presses and the internet with stories about poor Mercedes quality. The board kicked him out and replaced him with Zetsche. The first mission was to "return Mercedes to respectability" with a better quality product.
And look at Tunisia. Egypt. Bahrain.
Keeping your mouth shut does less good. And choosing between the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.
MBUSA reads forums. And AMG even set up one of their own forums exclusively for AMG owners. They post polls all the time and ask for owner's responses about lots of stuff. They read all the positive and the negative threads and posts. And they listen.
When Schrempp was cranking out crappy cars the industry trade journals and the car magazines flooded the presses and the internet with stories about poor Mercedes quality. The board kicked him out and replaced him with Zetsche. The first mission was to "return Mercedes to respectability" with a better quality product.
And look at Tunisia. Egypt. Bahrain.
Keeping your mouth shut does less good. And choosing between the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.
MBUSA reads forums. And AMG even set up one of their own forums exclusively for AMG owners. They post polls all the time and ask for owner's responses about lots of stuff. They read all the positive and the negative threads and posts. And they listen.
#33
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09' E350 AMG Sport, 09' C300, 03' Honda S2K
212 is not affected.
M272 (350) engine up to Serial #468993 or M273 (550) to 088611. The material for the balance shaft sprocket and the timing chain guide wheel (idler) was modified on engines past the serial numbers listed above.
Owners can check engine # here http://www.auto-parts.spb.ru/cat/cat...&client=dr2000 (datacard – engine)
If engine #is within range, reference DTB S-B-03.30/08j JUN09 for repair under factory warranty or extended warranty. Out of warranty have SM involve MB rep covering dealership to consider/approve goodwill repair given defective part was installed @ production
M272 (350) engine up to Serial #468993 or M273 (550) to 088611. The material for the balance shaft sprocket and the timing chain guide wheel (idler) was modified on engines past the serial numbers listed above.
Owners can check engine # here http://www.auto-parts.spb.ru/cat/cat...&client=dr2000 (datacard – engine)
If engine #is within range, reference DTB S-B-03.30/08j JUN09 for repair under factory warranty or extended warranty. Out of warranty have SM involve MB rep covering dealership to consider/approve goodwill repair given defective part was installed @ production
#35
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09' E350 AMG Sport, 09' C300, 03' Honda S2K
BudC, have been helping me trying to get this thing to work, but he also says my Vin was invalid and the website didnt have any info on my vehicle. He has 08 E350 that was build in 6/07 and he says his engine number is way above the cutoff of engine with the defect shaft, I hope that would be good news for me and everyone else because mines with built in 10/08. I havnt gotten a chance to look at the engine number. Is there anywhere else to look for the engine number beside in back on the engine?
Last edited by charliele729; 02-19-2011 at 10:49 PM.
#36
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I have the extended warranty, 7yr/100k mile ... sooo, I think I might bring the car in, give them the DTB and make 100% sure a service order in recorded in the system for my visit regarding the DTB. This will lead to proof I brought the car in during the original mfg warranty period, so should legal action be required at a later stage I can show I brought it in during the warranty period and they did nothing about it. I hate that I'm talking about legal action over a car I love, a car company I love and one of the best Mercs I've owned or driven.
If right now Service Advisors don't want to do anything, or MB won't do anything, I suggest others do the same thing .. so there is a record you did bring it up earlier but the dealer and MB decided to take no action.
If right now Service Advisors don't want to do anything, or MB won't do anything, I suggest others do the same thing .. so there is a record you did bring it up earlier but the dealer and MB decided to take no action.
#37
BudC, have been helping me trying to get this thing to work, but he also says my Vin was invalid and the website didnt have any info on my vehicle. He has 08 E350 that was build in 6/07 and he says his engine number is way above the cutoff of engine with the defect shaft, I hope that would be good news for me and everyone else because mines with built in 10/08. I havnt gotten a chance to look at the engine number. Is there anywhere else to look for the engine number beside in back on the engine?
However, if this problem does not affect my 08 - I may "gamble".
The VIN site does not work for me, either
#38
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Just an assumption, but if this ends up like BMW's subframe ca suit then all should work okay out for owners either way.
Once a suit is under way, the problem is out in the open. I do know that BMW was fixing under goodwill early on for those who knew about the issue and pushed. But if you signed on later to the ca suit, then you had to accept BMW's settlement offer. Either way you were covered however some people felt signing on and taking the settlement wasn't as good as trying it on goodwill and pushing to get it fixed. I don't recall the specifics (you can Google it), but I remember something about BMW would fix anyway despite the suit since it had put itself in acknowledgment of the issue. And apparently the settlement wasn't as good as trying to get BMW to fix it (something to do with time frame and mileage.)
Anyway, I'd monitor the suit's progress and just be sure to have it on record with the dealer that you've inquired, plus had them check the TSBs, etc..
Once a suit is under way, the problem is out in the open. I do know that BMW was fixing under goodwill early on for those who knew about the issue and pushed. But if you signed on later to the ca suit, then you had to accept BMW's settlement offer. Either way you were covered however some people felt signing on and taking the settlement wasn't as good as trying it on goodwill and pushing to get it fixed. I don't recall the specifics (you can Google it), but I remember something about BMW would fix anyway despite the suit since it had put itself in acknowledgment of the issue. And apparently the settlement wasn't as good as trying to get BMW to fix it (something to do with time frame and mileage.)
Anyway, I'd monitor the suit's progress and just be sure to have it on record with the dealer that you've inquired, plus had them check the TSBs, etc..
#39
I found out today that my engine is beyond those affected. My delivery date, per the data sheet was, 10/20/07 and the engine is 791XXX - way past the 468XXX cutoff... whew!
I still think I will get the EW, however.
If you know where I can get that 7/100 for $4K, please let me know.
I still think I will get the EW, however.
If you know where I can get that 7/100 for $4K, please let me know.
#40
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I found out today that my engine is beyond those affected. My delivery date, per the data sheet was, 10/20/07 and the engine is 791XXX - way past the 468XXX cutoff... whew!
I still think I will get the EW, however.
If you know where I can get that 7/100 for $4K, please let me know.
I still think I will get the EW, however.
If you know where I can get that 7/100 for $4K, please let me know.
#43
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212 is not affected.
M272 (350) engine up to Serial #468993 or M273 (550) to 088611. The material for the balance shaft sprocket and the timing chain guide wheel (idler) was modified on engines past the serial numbers listed above.
Owners can check engine # here http://www.auto-parts.spb.ru/cat/cat...&client=dr2000 (datacard – engine)
If engine #is within range, reference DTB S-B-03.30/08j JUN09 for repair under factory warranty or extended warranty. Out of warranty have SM involve MB rep covering dealership to consider/approve goodwill repair given defective part was installed @ production
M272 (350) engine up to Serial #468993 or M273 (550) to 088611. The material for the balance shaft sprocket and the timing chain guide wheel (idler) was modified on engines past the serial numbers listed above.
Owners can check engine # here http://www.auto-parts.spb.ru/cat/cat...&client=dr2000 (datacard – engine)
If engine #is within range, reference DTB S-B-03.30/08j JUN09 for repair under factory warranty or extended warranty. Out of warranty have SM involve MB rep covering dealership to consider/approve goodwill repair given defective part was installed @ production
Am I safe or is my engine one of the affected ones?
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09' E350 AMG Sport, 09' C300, 03' Honda S2K
My other question is that with the new modified shaft (350), is it suppose to last longer, or is it design not to wear down like the old one???
#48
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My engine number is 081489 and it is affected and I'm going to look into having the dealer replace the defective party before it takes down the gears.
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09' E350 AMG Sport, 09' C300, 03' Honda S2K
I talked to my SA today, and he says he normally insalled a new balance shaft about once month. Not one specific model but more on the year between 06-07. He says that I shouldnt have anything to worry about since I am the later model 08+ and that if it was to happen, he would replace it 100% free. He the best SA an MB owner can have. Also he said that the new material is made with a differnt type of hardened metal that does not wear down at all like the old one.
#50
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Good to know that they rectified the situation with the engines quite a while ago.
That with SBC makes me all that much happier that I sold my '06. Lots of quality/durability stuff has been improving in M-B lately. I trust an M-B product more than any other Luxury manufacturer right now. The W221's have been the most reliable S-Classes since the much less advanced W126's, and the more simple W204's have been very reliable within their Class. The W212's will probably fair even better, or at the very least, just as good as those two.
As long as people keep complaining and demanding for better (when justified), M-B will continue to improve on their quality. They now know firsthand how fast people will write them off, and how drastic the repercussions can be when people start noticing and reporting quality problems.
These are advanced cars, so they'll never be as reliable as a Civic in terms of little issues, but what we can expect is for them to R&D the hell out of everything obsessively, and choose top parts suppliers, and maybe not focus on maximizing profits at the expense of lesser quality products so much.
Now, we have new engines coming out, that have more that can go wrong than what we currently have (DI, Turbo's, higher compression, and in some cases, all 3), and a new transmission somewhere down the line, so we'll have a whole new waiting game to play.
That with SBC makes me all that much happier that I sold my '06. Lots of quality/durability stuff has been improving in M-B lately. I trust an M-B product more than any other Luxury manufacturer right now. The W221's have been the most reliable S-Classes since the much less advanced W126's, and the more simple W204's have been very reliable within their Class. The W212's will probably fair even better, or at the very least, just as good as those two.
As long as people keep complaining and demanding for better (when justified), M-B will continue to improve on their quality. They now know firsthand how fast people will write them off, and how drastic the repercussions can be when people start noticing and reporting quality problems.
These are advanced cars, so they'll never be as reliable as a Civic in terms of little issues, but what we can expect is for them to R&D the hell out of everything obsessively, and choose top parts suppliers, and maybe not focus on maximizing profits at the expense of lesser quality products so much.
Now, we have new engines coming out, that have more that can go wrong than what we currently have (DI, Turbo's, higher compression, and in some cases, all 3), and a new transmission somewhere down the line, so we'll have a whole new waiting game to play.