ndasgruv

I certainly agree with you. I think you and I are in the same boat.

gnma

Add me to the boat. I've started looking for something else too. Don't know if I should stay with MB after this SBC system, but the S-Class AMG seems very attractive, as does a W210 E55. Mebbe an E550.

Shadow5501

Should be easy enough to avoid. The only Mercedes I know of that had it fitted were the 2003-2006 w211 E-Class, the w219 CLS, and the w230 SL. Mercedes was the only manufacturer to deploy SBC. So not many cars out there with such a system.

PCH_4.2

The drive-by-wire system was a short lived innovation for MB.
I'm glad nothing bad happened to you.

ndasgruv

Has your issue with SBC been resolved? What was the actual cause of the failure, was it electrical or mechanical? I'm just trying to find a way to prevent this from happening to me in the near future. (i.e. replacing the BCM and Aux battery)

My car is about 8 months past MB warranty with only 56k miles on it. If I decide to keep my car (MY04) i would like to know what parts i need to purchase / replace so I can drive my car with confidence again.

@03E500AMG
Great post Because of you and others on the forum I've learned alot about SBC that I wouldn't have given a second thought to

Still can't decide if I'm going to keep my car or sell it. Currently looking into another MB without SBC.

vettdvr

SBC unit
Engine mounts
ball joints
Air springs
front struts

These should get you through the 100000 mile mark. At least they got my 03 pass the 100000 mile mark. Then the a/c went and the transmission hangs in 4th gear.

ndasgruv

I've replaced all but the SBC unit and engine mounts.
Thanks vettdvr!

fmj901

Interesting stories, thanks for sharing - here's mine.

I bought a '04 E500 4Matic with less than 30K on the clock.. Great car and in great shape / inside & out. I had an A/C issue (bad valve, blew hot are out the rear vents). Took it to MB to get that checked and they said the SBC was "near its limit".

Prior to this I had NO issues with braking. The unit ($2000+) was under warranty and replaced. Less than a month later I'm driving through town and the brakes go out - pedal to the floor, red lights, noise, et cetera. NOT a good time, if you've never experienced no breaks in traffic. Even the e-brake wouldn't work... (I always assume it was a separate system??!!)

It is back in the shop right now for the new SBC... another interesting thing, it was locked in park and unlike my other MB there is NO bypass or unlock, so (it's a 4Matic, remember?) it had to be pulled up onto the tow truck with 4 locked wheels, really screwed up the passenger side tires rubbing on the truck bed.... !

vettdvr

This clearly identifies the risk of SBC brakes. This is the reason I filed a report with the NTSB on Traffic safety for the Mercedes E class. I think there are many of these failures that are unreported.

beerfect

Hi everyone:
I had an complete brake system shut down in the middle of NYC two weeks ago. And yes, you can forget the "emergency" function of the now only on the front brakes working pedal without any booster. Almost nothing...

SBC unit has been replaced (free of charge). Same failure comes still on when I hit the brake pedal fast. Otherwise normal responses. The workshop diagnosed and bled the system 3 times and is now suggesting to change the master cylinder for close to $2K. It took them 2 weeks to believe the failure is repeatable and now that.

Has anyone ever had something like this?

vettdvr

I have had the total sbc failure and reported to NTSB for them to have the data. This way given enough data provided decisions can be made as to what is appropriate action if any.

By reporting you have the opportunity to prevent someone else from being injured or worse.

gaazmon

same here idk if i really wanna stick with MB. the SBC and airmatic worries scare me the most. and this car has become really unreliable in the past year.

E550 sounds nice but the shallow side of me says it's the same car (and people will think that), but the logical/reasonable side of me says NO IT DEFINITELY IS NOT lol but then again, there's airmatic again. Not a big fan of the CLS in all honesty. SL550 would be really great but not really reasonable right now and again SBC. S class would be too big and we already own an 02 CL500. The C and SLK would not be quick enough and I don't want to up to the AMG. Which pretty much leaves the CLK550 which is not a bad choice imo and the price range is not bad but idk.

but ya i've really always wanted a white e46 M3 coupe

vettdvr

No problem, just believe all the hype and give them your money. Then after owning you find out the truth.

I bought a 79 Cadillac Eldo once. It was junk. Later I worked with (not for ) Cadillac motor division and told them about my car. This was around 87. They told me they were great cars in 87 to buy another. I told them to give me one and if after 5 yrs it lived up to the advertising claim I would pay for it. I never drove another Caddy.

konigstiger

Had a ’79 Coupe Deville purchased new until I replaced it with a ’89 Continental. Coupe was a nice car, no problems to speak of but absolutely no comparison to my dad’s ’68 Sedan Deville at the time. BTW the Continental was loaded – every option, air suspension was standard, had auto headlights that dimmed the high beams for oncoming traffic, even had a deicing windshield – had one air strut replaced early on under warranty that was it. Sold in ’92 when I relocated from NY to AZ.

vettdvr

I agree sold my 79 and bought 89 Lincoln Mark VII It was a GREAT car. Drove it 140,000 gave it to my son and he drove it another 50,000. It DID have electronic brakes very similar to SBC. When my son sold it the brake system was beginning to be a problem but It could be replaced with a vac. booster.

gaazmon

lol ya they r a real pain in the a** these cars. but seriously, your right, other make options r the way to go right now. like i said i've always wanted an e46 m3 but my friend has one and he had a lot of problems with it too. Actually, I think he even recently sold his. lol pretty much every other week we both would be complaining about something else that went wrong or needed taking care of or just even the overly priced regular service.

KennyBobb

I am having that same experience right now, COMPLETE BRAKE FAILURE red lights, chimes, the works, very scary, thank God I was only going about 20 mph and did not hurt anyone. After turning the car off and on again all error lights went away and the brakes seem to working fine again.

Took the car to the dealer and they are telling me it's not the SBC unit it's BOU (Master cylinder) I have never heard of a master cylinder failing one minute to a point where you have no stopping power and then after a restart it's working fine again. I believe if a master cylinder is bad it's bad, period and will still not work after a restart.

Any thoughts on this anyone?

vettdvr

Identical to the symptoms I had but it WAS the SBC for me. The warning went off after starting and stayed off 5 minutes but came right back on. I had the car flatbedded to the dealer and refused to drive it.

KennyBobb

Everything I have seen or heard about these symptoms has been the SBC don't know why it's different for this car on dealer.

Getting a second opinion from a different dealer tomorrow.

vettdvr

I totally agree and get the 2nd opinion.

I highly recommend filing a report with NTSB for this failure. There are lots of them and only by providing this data will the NTSB know how to respond.

KennyBobb

Took the car in to another Dealer for a second opinion today, after sitting with the SA I realized that it was a huge mistake, he ran my VIN and had the other dealer's report in front of him. They came up with the same diagnosis.

Error code "C261E" 'Hydraulic fault or brake light switch faulty'

The service director at the first dealership called me and with his concern gave me a number to MB corporate customer service and said I should express my concerns with them, I did, and just received a follow up call from MB stating their position. They said -
"The vehicle is out of warranty and the component that has failed (BOU Master Cylinder) is not covered under the extended warranty provided to the SBC The repair is the owner's responsibility and MB will not provide any assistance in this matter".

With that said, I tried explaining to the rep that I don't have a problem having my car repaired, I know it's out off warranty, but there seems to be a major safety issue with the entire brake system on the vehicle and it seems as in my case according MB diagnostic results the electronics on the BOU (Master Cylinder) can fail suddenly, without warning, same as the SBC and it's not covered. The rep then repeated MB's position and the conversation was over.

It happens fast folks, as in my case you are driving comfortably as you get ready to stop and depress the brake pedal there is nothing there, no resistance, the pedal goes to the floor, then the bright red "STOP ME IF YOU CAN" light comes on and you pray that you stop safely without killing someone.

And it's like windows restart the car and it's fine again. mmmm

Be careful with these models as they age.

gnma

Which year is your W211? Glad u're okay.

komp55

I know it's of little consolation to those who have already suffered SBC related brake difficulties, but I've attached an official MB document describing the emergency function of the SBC system. If this can be believed, one ought to be able to stop the car in the event of a control unit failure. I think we become so accustomed to the boost of the power assist, that when it's not there it feels like no brakes at all. So far, my car's SBC unit has been trouble-free (85k miles so far).

Best thing to do is make sure your brake system is inspected regularly by a competent mechanic familiar with the Mercedes SBC system, keep your brake fluid renewed at the specified intervals using only the correct DOT 4+ fluid, and if you're planning to keep your SBC equipped car for the distance, be prepared to spend money to replace components as needed. If you're a W211 fanboy, you can always trade up to an '07 - '09 model year where MB ditched the SBC system.

vettdvr

But just think!. Wouldn't be nicer to have a vac booster conversion kit from MB to just convert the SBC to conventional 07 and up brakes and keep the car for the distance than wondering if your wife and grandmother with 3 kids would be able to apply enough presure to stop a car going off an exit ramp with a stop light at the bottom.?

Sher Judge

Not great hearing all these problematic stories on the 211 SBC brake system. I would just replace(every 6/8 months) or install a juiced up, good amperage Aux battery for the braking. My 211 takes some beating now & then. So far all is good.

BTW : The next S-Class(W222) gets SBC II with intelligent/intuitive control?
So say the engineers from Stuttgart.