bensonhurst

Hi all, finally decided to register and ask a question I have about my MB 2007 E350 RWD. I recently drove to a gas station, shut the car off, filled it with gas, and after that I could not start my car. It took me about 15 tries and about 10 min to start it. After I drove home and parked, I was out in about 2 hours and could not start the car again. Another couple of hours later I barely started the car. Drove to mechanic, and he changed the crank censor, and then the car would not start again. He did the diagnostic(he has a laptop that he hooked up to the car) and told me there is a problem with a fuel pump. I called a dealer and was told that its not sold separately, but only with entire fuel tank, which retails $1,800. Do any of you know or could suggest any cheaper solution to my problem? Is there anything else could be done instead?
Thank you all in advance.

Sportstick

As you were so specific to mention that the failure occurred at the gas station, may we assume you/the dealer have ruled out possibly filling an almost-empty tank with contaminated fuel? The fuel has been tested? Are you still on that same tank?

bensonhurst

Thank you for your quick reply. My mechanic did not test or mentioned anything about testing the fuel. I also filled the car with a fuel after that as well.

Sportstick

1) How empty was the tank at that first gas station before refilling?
2) Has the problem continued with the same symptoms, no better, no worse?
3) Was the more recent refill at the same or a different gas station?

bensonhurst

1) How empty was the tank at that first gas station before refilling?

It was almost empty, only one line(dash) left.

2) Has the problem continued with the same symptoms, no better, no worse?

same symptoms, same condition.

3) Was the more recent refill at the same or a different gas station?

It was a different gas station.

Sportstick

OK, before spending more money, try this long shot. Drive it down to almost empty again. Buy a bottle (Amazon sells it online) of Chevron Techron Concentrate Fuel System Cleaner (12 ounce bottle). Find a recently built gas station which you know has high volume of usage...want someplace with a relatively new tank in the ground and fast stock rotation....a Costco actually fits this description if one is near you. Pour in the Techron, and then add 10 gallons of gas. If you're really in Bensonhurst, take a ride around the Belt. Then see if there is any change in behavior, don't refill until you're back down to almost empty. If the performance is improved, try not to let the tank get below 1/4 before refilling again. And, if this really helped, send me a pizza from Del Mar on Sheepshead Bay Road...Michigan is pretty bleak for good pizza.

P.S. Re-do the Techron routine twice a year between annual oil changes (unless you are high mileage and change more frequently), but no more than 2 times on one crankcase of oil.

bensonhurst

Thanks a lot for your response. I will do exactly what you said, and if that really would help to solve my problem, then you will get a pizza from Totonno's, which is the best and the oldest pizza place in Brooklyn, and it is only 2 blocks away from me. Once again, thank you.

Sportstick

You're very welcome and thank you. Hope it works...I am just struck at the strong coincidence that the failure occurred exactly immediately after filling an almost empty tank right at the gas station. Filling a very empty tank can let old sludge and guck from the tank bottom get stirred up and in the fuel system. The old saying is "When you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras"....look for the expected solution first! Good luck!

Dexion

If all else fails, here is the price of the OEM fuel pump.
http://www.parts.com/oemcatalog/inde...layCatalogid=0

$216 is alot less than $1,800
"needs to be replaced with the whole gas tank" haha,

Next time we bring the car to the dealer for spark plug change, they might as well say, "need to replace the whole head"

BTW I also added a bottle of Techron in my tank last week. Stuff works! I added it to 2 bars of gas. Put about 12 gallons in and ran it out with some spirited runs. Engine is a bit quieter now at idle and I squeezed a bit more MPG out of it.

bensonhurst

Dexion, Thank you very much for your reply. I haven't try the first solution yet since I only use the car on the weekend. But if the first doesnt work, will go for this.

Sportstick

Dexion's experience is very good, but just a note of caution. Chevron recommends blending the one 12 ounce bottle of Techron with up to 12 gallons. Assuming you didn't roll into the station completely dry, adding 12 gallons more to the tank may dilute the Techron a bit. I have used the paradigm of adding the Techron and 10 gallons when the Reserve indication shows up. This seems to correlate with the distance-to-go which was displayed and the current rate of usage.

bensonhurst

Sportstick,

Once again, thanks for an advice!

Dexion

I pretty much did what the back of the bottle suggests.

bensonhurst

Hey guys. I did what you told me. Put the Chevron Fuel cleaner, filled the car with gas and drove on a highway. That did not solve my problem. The car won't start when its hot. It does start in the morning though. I went for diagnostic, and these are the codes that I got on my print out:
1.) Malfunction of secondary air injection at right and left bank of cylinders(function chain) (P0410)
2.) Tooth space on sensor rotor temporarily not detected or wiring error (P0336).

The guy who did the diagnostic said although these things came up, he did some tests, and could not find any problem with a car.

Here is the most weired situation. Last night I met a friend of mine who told me this thing: He said, if you are in the car with your wife, let her try to switch the key and start the car, and you meanwhile open the hood and hit few times with your hand on the top of the engine(there is a aluminum silver plate). I asked him what it does and he just had no idea, but said that he heard it from someone long time ago. I tried to do this few times, and it does help and the car starts. Now......what the hell does that mean? What could this possibly do to the car to let it start. Do any of you could help me to identify the problem or any of you have any suggestions what could this be? Is it related to a fuel problem or is it something else?

Once again, thank you guys in advance.

Sportstick

First, I am sorry the earlier advice did not help. It was a long-distance best guess. I am still quite struck at the amazing coincidence that all these symptoms first appeared at the gas station, immediately after a full tank refill.

However, with clear problems now identified, the repair should be fairly straightforward. I am completely unfamiliar with what sounds like an "old wives tale". I would be more likely to believe it was coincidence that your car started at that moment. Try it 100 times, and check the statistics.

Good luck with the repair, and the next time I visit NYC, I will find my way to Totonno's to check out your recommendation, but you should also try DelMar on Sheepshead Bay Road too. That recommendation I can be much more certain about!

bensonhurst

Sportstick,

First of all, thank you very much for your recommendation, and I am glad I did it. Second of all, next time you are in NYC, please let me know and pizza is on me. And last, but def not least.........could you at least appx tell me what this is all about? what could be under that cap and what could cause my car problem with starting? I am still pretty much confused since no mechanic could tell me clearly what the problem is.

Once again, thank you

haris12

Is your check engine light comes on? It could that possible crank shaft position sensor is bad even tho you replaced it. There is few members here that were having problems with after market CPS and soon as they put OEM CPS they problem was fixed. Your symptoms sound like CPS but i could be wrong. if u were having issues with gas then i think it would idle rough when u started it or it would die. ? give us more info

haris12

Generic OBD Error Code Details for P0336


Crankshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit Range/Performance


What does this mean?

OBD Code P0336refers to
The crankshaft position sensor (CKP) is usually a two wire sensor: a signal and a ground. The CKP sensor consists of (usually) a permanent magnent sensor that is mounted in front of a reluctor (toothed) wheel mounted to the crankshaft. As the reluctor wheel passes in front of the crank sensor, an A/C signal is produced that varies according to engine speed. The PCM (powertrain control module) uses this A/C signal to interpret engine RPM. Some crank sensors are hall-effect sensors instead of permanent magnent sensors. These are three wire sensors, provided with voltage, ground, and signal. They too have a reluctor wheel with vanes and "windows" that change the voltage signal to the PCM, providing a RPM signal. I will focus on the former, since they are simpler design and more common.

The crankshaft reluctor has a specific number of teeth and the PCM can determine the position of the crankshaft using only this sensor's signature pattern. The PCM uses this sensor to also determine cylinder misfires by measuring the reluctor teeth locations in the CKP sensor signal. In conjunction with the Camshaft position sensor (CMP) the PCM can determine timing of spark and fuel injection. If the PCM senses a loss of CKP sensor signal (RPM signal) even momentarily, P0336 may set.
Symptoms

Possible sumptoms of OBD code P0336
Symptoms of a P0336 DTC may include:

Intermittent stalling & no start
No start
MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) illumination
Intermittent misfire

bensonhurst

Harris,
I can start the car when its cold, but can not do it whent its hot. Once I started the car drives fine. Check engine showed code 0810 Malfunction of Secondary Air Injection at right and left bank P0410

haris12

Primary symptom of CPS is that the car will not start/run when warmed up. Will start/run when its cold until it warms up when it shuts down. Because of CPS control Timing and Spark in our cars you may get other codes like misfire etc

haris12

your other codes have nothing to do with starting the car, your P0410 is basically emission code. It is basically another air pump that pushes air into the exhaust so the cats can burn more pollution. so that's got nothing to do with starting the car, however it will need to be addressed but lets focus ON your CPS now. get OEM CPS its about $140 at dealer

bensonhurst

Haris, I did the diagnostic yesterday, and crank sensor did not show up as a problem on the report. Is there still a posibility that it could be bad, even though diagnostics did not show it?

Sportstick

Thanks and glad to see you have very knowledgeable assistance here...the problem has gone past my level of information. Sound like you're on your way to being repaired!

haris12

When you replaced CPS did u replace it with OEM or not. If not then Go to your local dealer and get new CPS like i said part alone is about $150 you can do it your self its easy here is link where some of the members were having issues with CPS. you have second code which is your emission air pump but it doesnt have anything to do with yout starting issue.

I had a same issues as you did after i filled up gas my car wouldn't start then after couple hours it was fine. I thought it was bad gas but that wasn't issue after contacting my buddy that works at Mercedes dealer as service tech he told me to get OEM CPS because other people were having issues with aftermarket CPS. Replaced a CPS car runs like a champ ever since.

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...r-problem.html

bensonhurst

I just changed my CPS and also a gas cap, and nothing had happend. Still have problems starting my car. Still cranks but won't start. It barely starts when the car is cold though.